How (or if) to move forward?

[dubya]

Lots of shit is happening all at once. I’ll just let you know where I’m at before moving on to the situation at hand.

The last couple of weeks have been pretty damn good.
I’ve started subscribing to the Stylelife Academy. I’m working on the first program “Conquering Anxiety.” The missions basically have me doing things that I had already thought of on my own, like identifying public hang out spots and frequenting those places. But for some reason even though I thought of it I had never done it before. I guess having to check in with each mission has a psychological effect. I’ve already found a couple of places that I intend to frequent. (A couple of bars and a Barnes and Nobles/Starbucks)

Now, I’m an avid reader and it has been perpetual habit for me to spend two or three hours each night reading. The past two weeks however I’ve gone out almost every night. I still find time to read. I just do it in small chunks now instead of two or three hour marathons.

Anyway, while doing this I have made about two approaches. Neither were successful except that my view of the approaches changed as I was doing them. I found myself qualifying her to determine if I should keep going.

Anyway while all this is going on a new situation develops on its own.

It started during lunch at work last Wednesday. I’m sitting there talking to this student worker from India and my friend Deb. Indiagirl is cute and super smart. But she is also married. It’s not a problem for me that she is married. But not knowing much about her culture I’m unsure how to approach her. While the three of us are talking the conversation turns why I’m not seeing anyone. I say the usual shit about how I’m not really looking.

After lunch I hear Deb on the phone saying, “He’s got a gottee and blond hair. No girl it’s blond he done dyed his hair…”

I look around and say “What the hell are you doing?”
She just looks at me and keeps talking.
About an hour later Deb hands me a number with a name on it. WTF? I didn’t ask for this. But what the hell. I call the number which is a work number and talk to the girl. Apparently she works with one of Deb’s friends.
We’ll call her BDG (Blind Date Girl).

We talk for about two minutes and BDG gives me her cell number. I call her again that night and we talk longer. BDG is an RN. I find out she is eight years older then me. (I’m 28 and the last girl I kissed was eight years younger then me. It balances.) BDG has three kids and is divorced. Her mother also lives with her. I figure what the fuck? I’m not being too picky right now. We make an AFC style date to go out for dinner that Friday. Being a blind date, dinner sounds like a good option to me and I couldn’t think of anything else at the moment. So I just suggested the first idea I thought of. We make plans for Friday because that’s when her kids go to their dad’s for a week.

Date in hand I go to Barnes and Nobles to play chess. While I’m there I approach a girl sitting at a table doing homework. I approached with the Movie Moment opener and when I ask to sit down she says yes. We talk for a couple of minutes. She’s dividing her attention between me and her work writing stuff down as we talk. Something clicks inside my mind. If she isn’t interested in meeting me I’m not interested in meeting her. I tell her it’s a pleasure meeting her and then I go get my ass kicked in chess. I’ve analyzed this approach and have determined that I did two things wrong. First the opener requires a lot of confidence and I feel like I looked nervous. Second, she was studying to be a nurse (why do I keep running into nurses?) and I’m trying to get out of the medical field. Without even realizing it I started criticizing what she has chosen to do with her life. I didn’t even become aware of this until I thought about what I said later.

Friday night I get dressed and go out. We had planned to meet there. When I meet her the first thought that runs through my mind is frumpy. Whatever… we say hi, we actually shake hands (I’ve always thought shaking hands with a girl was funny) and go inside. I should say here that at this point I already knew that I wasn’t very attracked to BDG. But being that I was already there I decided, fuck it I’m going to have fun. We talk over dinner, mostly BS. I don’t remember if I tried any routines here or not. Mostly we talked about books and movies and a little philosophy. I think I did most of the talking.

After dinner I asked her if she could play pool. She said “Not well.” I said cool cause I really can’t either. So of course that’s what we go do. We get in my car and I drove over to Flanagan’s, which is a bar. Walking in I talk to this guy whose wearing a pink shirt with the word GEEK across his chest. I tell him that’s a great shirt. It turns out GEEK is with a band that’s playing.

We go in get a couple beers and find the pool tables. There’s a group of girls playing at one of the tables. (I find out later they’re all with GEEK’s band.) The other table’s balls are all screwed up. A couple of balls are missing including the cue ball and there were two 14 balls. The girls at the next table gave us one of the two 8 balls they had. So we had two 8s, two 14s and no cue ball.

We played anyway.
There was enough of a difference between the 14 that we could use one of them as a cue ball (As long as we didn’t strike.) We played like that making up our own rules until the girls at the other table finished and gave us their cue ball. When we finished we moved to the other table and played a more normal game of pool. About half way through I accused her of being a pool shark. She laughed and denied this. When we finished I handed the cue ball to these two guys who had been waiting at the other table. These guys had been standing there for about 15 minutes. They were well dressed, good looking guys but they had these stone expressionless faces. They weren’t having fun. They weren’t even talking to each other. I wondered if that’s how I looked to most people. BDG even commented on the difference between how they stood there waiting and how we had played anyway and had fun. It occurred to me then that being able to adapt to a situation and have fun to spite whatever difficulties are present might be a DHV.
The band started playing and we sat on some bar stools and listened. I was looking for an excuse to escalate kino, (There virtually was none at this point) and I noticed her hands kind of balled up in her lap. She was wearing a couple rings so I did the Finger Ring routine. This is the first time I’ve actually used it with someone I’ve just met. It went really well. She was interested in what I was saying. When I finished the routine I just kept her hand in mine. (Her right hand in my left, so we were reaching across each other.) She left it there. She didn’t make any sign at all that it might be weird that we were holding hands.

After a couple songs she wanted to go somewhere else.
I asked “Somewhere more quite?”
“Yeah,”
I mentioned this other bar called Tiki which was down the street. I knew that it would have fewer people there. She thought that sounded good so we left.

On the way to the car she suggested that we just go to her house.

What?
I stayed reactionless. I just say okay.
“Oh,” she says “Nothings going to happen though. I can’t promise you anything. I mean my moms there so we’ll have a chaperone.”

What?
I can hear David D in the back of my mind saying [She’s thinking about having sex with you]. We were just getting to the car when she said this. I turned toward her smiling and said “I’m just amazed you think you could get that far.”
She laughed. “It’s usually the guy who…”
Yeah, yeah, yeah…

I return her to her car then follow her home. As we’re walking to the door I’m actually thinking “Shit, could this turn into my first foolsmate?”

Well, no.

Her mother is nowhere around which I was thankful for. She fixed us some crown and coke and we sat on the couch with my arm around her watching Rodney Carrington on Comedy Channel talk about his penis.

I didn’t know how to escalate it any further and I had to be at my second job in the morning. So after a while she walked back out to my car with me.
Outside I decided to try to kiss her. She did not hesitate. Her mouth parted and I got a little tongue. She told me I was good at this. I said she was too and kissed her again. Then we said goodbye and left.

We talked briefly on the phone the next day. She asked me if I wanted to see 1408. And I did. No, really… fuck her I wanted to see the movie. So we went Sunday. We sat with our hands folded together through the whole thing. I dropped her at her house and went home afterward.

I know my problem.
It’s a question of morals. I keep thinking that I’m an asshole. I think that she’s probably going to want more of a relationship then what I’m actually looking for. This is a problem that I faced with another girl. That relationship ended almost as soon as it began when she asked me if I didn’t feel about her the same way she felt about me. I tend to back off when I become afraid that I’m going to hurt someone emotionally.

So I backed off. I did not call her again until Deb told me she believes that BDG wasn’t really looking for anything serious.

So I called her again. She wants to see me but not during a week that her kids are around. This is exactly what I wanted to hear because I have no interest in ever meeting her kids.

So here is where it stands. It will be a week before we see each other again. What I’d like is to make things move toward a Fuck Buddy relationship. I’m just not sure how to move it in that direction.

Anyway, whatever happens in this situation I’m still going out alone most nights this week. We’ll see if anything else develops.

[Vector]

Consider these 4 situations:

A. Weak emotional connection, no sex
B. Strong emotional connection, no sex
C. Weak emotional connection, sex
D. Strong emotional connection, sex

Mainstream conventional wisdom says that women want B or D, and that men want C or D. But conventional wisdom is wrong, there are plenty of women who love C too.

Especially older women. I think younger women are usually more influenced by what they're told they are supposed to want (B and D), and some are still dreaming of the "prince charming" myth. Older women are much less likely to have hangups on relationships and many are quite happy to get C. You're not being an asshole by giving it to her. Quite the opposite!

First you should be a lot nicer to her by not forcing her to make all the advances. Women really hate that because it makes them feel desperate. When she invites you to have sex ("let's go to my place"), do not respond with C&F because she will feel like shit.

The only thing now is it sounds like by not advancing on her, you've more or less communicated that you don't want to sleep with her. If you suddenly do a 180 she may feel weird. Wait until the next time you see her in person, and give your excuse: verbalize your concern that you won't be able to give her a relationship, and that you are attracted to her but you have been holding back because you don't want to dissappoint her.

She is going to be wondering why you came to her house and didn't advance on her. She's wondering, did you want to have sex or didn't you? You don't have to bring it up specifically, but say you were conflicted.

She will tell you that you are sweet and that she is perfectly happy with C. Then the two of you will have sex.

[El Fenix]

He's right. When women complain that men lie, its because we want C but they dont. So we have to do things to get that without all the hassle afterwards. Older women, and college girls are often fine with this. It's called "hooking up."

Another thing I LOVE about older women is they usually are more mature and appreciate the attention more. Younger girls(under25) take it for granted. Older women know better. This is one of the things I first learned in sarging, because I sarged with a guy who was older than me, so his target market was different. Older women can be much bolder in a way younger girls cant. They call them cougars for a reason: they can attack!(in a good way:)

[Vector]

Yep and what women really really hate is men who lie and say they're feeling D, when really they're in C. Eventually the truth comes out and the woman feels exploited and used. Definitely don't do that. Ever. Besides, there's no need to. Women like C too.

[dubya]

Vector: Yeah, I'm feeling what your saying. I just need to get it in my head that I'm not a jerk for wanting sex.

I just don't want her to be feeling D while I'm looking for C.
That may not be as big of an issue as I've been thinking though. We haven't had any logical conversation about what form our "relationship" will take.

About the CF statement I made:
"I'm amazed you think you could get that for."

I've been playing it back in my head wondering about if I had kissed her then. Or if instead I had said something like:

"I promise only to go as far as you want, but I don't promise not to try."

Anyway, we'll see how it works out.

Wesley.

[Midnight]

there is nothing wrong with having conscious here. just let your intentions be known up front. from the posting i would guess it will hardly come as a surprise to her, and she will respect your honesty. come on she's older, do you think she will surprised to hear a guy wants just sex? she will be more surprised that you at least admit it and she will respect you more.

[dubya]

Holy fuck.

This is long and I go into detail... so read at your own risk.


Everything is cool. And this shit seemed a lot easier then I thought it would be. Here is what happened.


This week was fucked for a number of reasons. First is that her kids were with her this week. She has them every other week from Friday to Friday. The last time we had gone out she had made some comment about having her kids that and not thinking it was a good idea for them to meet anyone just yet. This was fine with me since I really have no interest in meeting them. But of course I didn’t say that. The other reason the week was fucked is that we were both really busy. Between school and work and painting a friends house on the 4th I didn’t have much time to either go out or to hook up with her. She didn’t have any time either. But we did manage to talk on the phone a couple of times.


Anyway, Thursday we talked on the phone as I was driving home from school. I didn’t want to talk that much while I was on the road so three seconds after “hello” I asked her what she was doing Friday night. Her response was that she was going out with me. Good.


Friday we go out to this restaurant that’s on the Boardwalk in Bossier. It had been raining of and on most of the day and it was a little misty but not too bad. After we ate I said lets just walk for a minute. So we went and looked at the river which is seriously high right now. I should back up a minute though and tell this right. When I got to her house to pick her up the first thing I did was make a mistake. That mistake was hesitation. When she opened the door we said high. I was thinking about kissing her and I should have gone ahead and done it without thinking about it. She actually said “So, you going to kiss me hello?” Which of course I did. But I should have never allowed her the chance to ask that question. I should have just done it.


Now considering the way things turned out I’m not going to beat myself up over this. But it’s the kind of thing I want to remember.


Anyway… the rest of the night I was constantly trying to either kiss her or touch her in some way. When we got to the Boardwalk I kissed her again before we got out of the car. She complained about me messing up her lipstick, but what the fuck did I care. I halfway ignored the comment and when she said I had some on me I asked if it was a good shade.

I made sure that we were holding hands about eighty percent of the time we were at the Boardwalk. Every door we went through I put my hand on her back to lead her through. While walking after we left the restaurant I suggested we play Truth or Dare. I had planned this before hand. She was really hesitant to even try this so I dropped it and started talking about something else. While we stood at the railing looking at the river she held an umbrella and I kept my arm around her. I kissed her there again too.


I didn’t really have anything planned for us to do. There really isn’t that much to do here, other then bars and neither of us wanted to go to a bar. So I just grabbed her hand and said come on lets go, and we walked back toward her car. (I had driven through some water earlier that day and the passenger side floorboard of my car was a little damp. So we decided she should drive.) I had seen another couple walking earlier with their arms around each other. On the way to the car I was holding her hand and as soon as I thought about it I passed her hand behind my back from my right to my left and deposited her hand on my side as I put my arm around her. It was smooth, it was cool and she just went with it. We didn’t really have anywhere to go so she drove randomly for a minute until I told her to turn. She got in the turn lane and asked where we were going. I said Starbucks. She thought that was a great idea. So we went and hung out at Starbucks talking for about twenty minutes. Then we decided to go rent a movie and watch it at her house.


At Starbucks I had mention that I still lived at home while I was telling a story. She said she had suspected this since I had told her my plans to quit my job and go back to school. In the car she said something about that being rough on my dating life. My reply was that I only dated women who had their own place. She then mentioned her mother living with her and how that was a pain for her dating life. I had been thinking about that too but it turned out not to be much of an issue.



I had been talking all night. I talked about a million different things. This is unusual for me since I've often been accused of not talking to people at all. But I talked about everything from hunting (I killed my first deer last year) to The Dirt with Motley Crue. (I found this the other night and just had to buy it.) In the car I used a routine I'm working on that is a blend of a true story of mine and one of Mystery's routines. Mystery has a routine were he protects his stripper girlfriend from from a car full of dorks who were following her. I never had a stripper girlfriend but I did get in a lot of fights as a kid. So I'm working on this story about "winning" my first girlfriend in a fight while I was in middle school. Now, I never had a girlfriend in middle school but the fight I described really did happen. It just happened for less interesting reasons. She thought the story was cool. Anyway I talked a lot. The funny thing is, I had thought all day about using routines like the Evolution Phase Shift, but I didn't use any of that. I didn't really need them. I just started talking about different stuff and the only time I used a routine was when I could feel one of those odd moments about to happen when no one has anything to say.


Fast forward.

I don’t really drink wine. But she offered me some so I took it. We watched to movie sitting next to each other, thigh to thigh and part way through we had wrapped our hands together. After the movie I started kissing her and we started making out on the couch. We were at awkward angles to each other and I kept trying to move us around. I also kept trying to get my hand to one of her tits but was having trouble with her top and the bra she had on. I also kept kissing and biting her neck. She told me no hickeys because she didn’t want to explain things to her kids. But it didn’t matter because the whole time we were on the couch I wasn’t really getting anywhere.


She had said something to me and I for get what it was but my response to it was something like:

“I’m just trying to figure out how to get this damn bra off.” When I said this she laughed.

She said: “It’s steal plated armor.”

Me: “Right.”

Her: “I hate having a chaperon.” She meant her mother.

Me: “Yeah, I don’t see her anywhere.” I poked my head up and looked around as I said this. The joke was we hadn’t seen her the whole night.

Her: “Yeah, me neither.”


She got up and went to the kitchen saying something about the key to the steal plated armor. When she came back she took me hand and showed me where her bedroom was. We made out a little more in here. Then she said she had to go to the bathroom. I said that was fine and that I had to as well. She went first. When I came back she was scanning through the DirectTV music stations. We both agreed on jazz. We got in her bed and started playing around. We both made comments about the steel plated armor until she decided to show me that it was really easy to unsnap. (You will laugh but I kept thinking about Extramask from The Game talking about using one of his mom's bras to practice with. That thought creeps me out a little but I may have to find a bra somewhere to try and figure out the damn things.) The top she had on was giving me problems to so she just took it off. Then she complained how unfair this was so we took my shirt off. I played with her breast until she started pulling at my belt buckle. She said something about MY steel plated armor. As we removed the rest of our clothes she asked me if I'd brought protection, and I had. She wanted to get under the covers because she said she was modest. She was totally groping on my penis and we were kissing. I put my hand between her legs and she was wet. She got wetter as I played with her. I moved on top of her. she spread her legs for me. I was fiddling with the condom and she told me to use my teeth if I had to. It had been a while since I had done this. It took me a minute to be sure that I was inside her. I could hardly feel anything. But I didn't care, just the fact that I was fucking someone was great. We were both really awkward together but it was still cool. I couldn't tell if she came or not and I didn't ask so I still don't know. But for a couple minutes she was breathing really fast.



Afterwards we laid together like a big naked pretzel. It was really very cool. She giggled and then actually apologized for giggling. She said she just thought of something funny and told me that I just popped her "Matrimonial Cherry." She said something about feeling like a cougar. I made her explain this to me cause I didn't know what she meant, (an older woman who dates younger guys). I told her about a t-shirt I have that says "I love hot moms." Eventually she said that she would ask me to stay the night but that it might be weird in the morning with her mom around. I said I had been thinking the same thing. And I had. I wanted to leave anyway but I made a joke about her using me and throwing out in the middle of the night. She called me a willing participant so I kissed her. We chilled for a minute or two more before we both got dressed and she walked me out. I kissed her again outside before I left.



It was 3am before I got to sleep.