neg advice

[Midnight]

any pointers on how to manage pull-back from negs? any good lines to turn it around? i have some canned material but prefer to custom-tailor to the situation so sometimes i throw a neg and the obstacle or target gets confrontation and i don't have a good immediate retort. example:

Midnight: your teeth kinda pop out at me when you smile, that's cute... (quickly moving to next routine, not looking for reaction)

Obstacle: why would you say something like that to my friend? that's rude? there is nothing wrong with her teeth.

Pointers?

i don't want to apologize or be a kiss ass and jump through her hoop, but sometimes i ride the line. any good canned lines here? i'm usually say something to direct to the positive side of my neg (here i would say, 'but i said it is cute'), but just looking for any best practices here when maybe i didn't give an easy out like that.

[holyskeleton]

imo its more of a frame thing than a neg thing. more of a inner game. when she says the opposite of what you said you can either make yourself right all the way to the end, i.e. argue with her playfully and not giving up even a inch, or just let it go because you dont care. my personal favorate is just say "ok." and smile like she means nothing to me. this way you'll have more value but maybe less comfort.

[Tribulus1000]

( Some of us who have been doing this for a while still fuck up so don't worry.)

1. Throw and Go. Don't stop and wait for a reaction. Go straight into a story
"Where's your off button?
...get this....my friend and I were out and we saw this bad ass kid by the side of the road. He had a bandana, ripped up jeans and was wearing a wife beater..."

2. If it goes too far, you can always backtrack. One I do that I learned from Matador was this:
[insert neg] and she takes it bad

you go " What movie is that from? Magnolia"

[Scoundrel]

Hey, you said it was cute.

[Mojo]

My advice for guys is do NOT use negs. Negs are designed ONLY for 9 and 10’s. And despite the HB inflationary numbering that perforates the community, 9 and 10’s are more rare than you would believe. You will spot a 10 maybe once in a year if you are lucky.

As for the situation, maybe you didn’t disarm the obstacle enough. More rapport building on your side may have sufficed. The Neg you used seemed alright and moving on to the next topic was the correct thing to do. Let’s look at the neg:

your teeth kinda pop out at me when you smile, that's cute...

Frame control. In reacting to her friend, tell the obstacle that was a compliment then move on to the story. Or you could ignore friend entirely and enter story. Just shrugging it off or pretending you didn’t hear a word and continuing with the conversation as if nothing was said is a powerful thing, especially if a natural alpha is amogging you. Ignore him and his amogs have no affect. For example, I asked a few PUA’s o pick the hottest girl in the bar. She was an asian surrounded by two Amogs. One guy left and I had one to deal with. Upon accidentally finding out my opener was a generic routine he said “that is pathetic”. I ignored him and gamed HB. Then he said “That Is Pathetic”. I ignored him. Almost yelling now, “THAT IS PATHETIC”. I ignored him. Check out Lovedrop’s Violation theory in Classic PUA writing to understand how he fucked up. Being unfazed and having the amog try too hard pumped up her attraction for me and lowered it for him. Later Amog tried to get my approval where I totally DHV me and DLV him by responding “You don’t need to impress me. I already think you are a cool guy”. Shortly later, HB invites me to switch venue with her so we can drop this ex-alpha. Being able to ignore and be unfazed by amog remarks is a powerful statement.

Again, I urge most of the new guys not to use Negs. Many supermodels are not even 10’s.

Hope this helps,

~ Mojo

[Vector]

Negs are a lot more difficult to pull off than most people realize. Negs are not insults. Even a lot of "standard" negs can be really hard to say without it coming off as an insult.

The only purpose of a neg is to imply disinterest. You want to subtly sub-communicate that you do not have the knee-jerk reaction to beauty that everyone else does. Presumably because you're around beautiful people all the time and it doesn't faze you.

If she opens her mouth in surprise, you did it wrong. Even if the girl is not angry per se, but is just surprised you would say such a thing, still you are delivering insults, not negs. And if you get called out on it, then you are definitely delivering insults.

A really low value, low-self esteem guy who is rejected all the time might insult women to try to boost himself up, and also to "prove" he doesn't need women's approval. You do not want to be confused with that guy.

I use a lot of body language "negs" (if they can be called that). By back-turning off of a short set I demonstrate disinterest and then I can re-engage seconds or minutes later.

One verbal neg I used once was "(You're so cool!) You're like the big sister I never had." I didn't actually say the "You're so cool" part, it was conveyed by my tonality.

One other time (not sure if this counts as a neg) a girl was talking and I wiped my face with my hand, as if she had just spit on me (even though she hadn't). I didn't say a thing, I just kept listening as if nothing happened. She kept on talking about whatever she was saying, but I saw her flinch as I did that. Suddenly she's self-conscious.

When using verbal negs, I'll crank up the compliment factor a lot and crank down the insult factor. I probably wouldn't ever say "That's a cool dress, I notice it's really popular these days." Instead I might say, "That's a cool dress, I saw someone wearing that the other day but it looks even better on you."

Or "something about you is really cute, but I can't quite put my finger on it... actually I think it's the way your teeth pop out just a little when you smile."

[Welsh_Dragon]

Vector is spot on as always.

Trying in the early stages to apply "neg theory" in pickup is akin to attempting "hit theory" against a major league baseball pitcher. Unless you practice, put in the work, understand all the subtelties and complexities of the game, etc.. you are going to be swinging and missing a lot with negs.

Let me try to illustrate. After a lot of PUA time in the field and experience you have built up your social group - racked up some lays and FBs - more and more you are being selective with the new girls you meet. Once you start screening as an instinctive reaction your body language will by definition convery genuine disinterest and ambivolence to new girls and their physical appearence. They need to impress you in other ways just to get a chance. At this point you can tease them with clever, funny "negs" to pump up their buying temperature IF the situation merits it.

In short I would suggest you are better off not trying to use negs at all and letting this come naturally as your awareness develops.

[Scoundrel]

It’s been said that NEGS are for 9s & 10s. But, that’s relative. I’ve yet to see a REAL 10 in DFW that wasn’t working at the time. (model doing promotions, etc.) It’s about how many AFCs approach her. I’ve met 7s that I had to NEG 5 times to get inside her bitch shield.

Calibration is what needs to be learned. If she THINKS she’s a 10 you have to treat her like one and NEG her.

[Midnight]

great responses... thanks all.

i usually do a very tame neg in the first minute almost every time, on an 8-9 i'll use in my opener sometimes. (really my goal is 8-9 so although i agree i don't need to neg 6-7's, i do for practice for when the real deal comes along) -- mojo nice call on classifying 9-10. i've only seen a couple 10's in person in my life and only a few 9's per year.

i have a good neg story from about 2 weeks ago (first 9 i saw in months out) i was at a resturant bar and i saw HB9 and after opening, i told her she seemed super nice. before she could shrug me off as an AFC, i kind of turned around (punishment for her non-verbal shrug to me) and said "too bad nice girls aren't my type." she immediately looked at me baffled and asked why i wasn't her type. i told her even if she was my type, i don't go for young girls as she said she was a college student (yeah right, i don't like young girls lol). "you're just a baby, i need a real woman." she looked completely puzzeled, that 'i'm everybody's type' look. at that point she started leaning towards me and asking me repeated questions when i told her, "wow you are nosy aren't you". i smiled playfully when i said it of course, and next i opened up a little and said, okay, let me learn more about you, and i proceeded to try to read her personality via analysing features, body language, hands, psych tests... 5 minutes later, after she told me some things about herself, i said "maybe you are alright after all, maybe i was wrong about you, you do seem a little adventerous and that's cool" then i gave some slight kino. that was the first time a 9 i just met ever gave me puppy dog eyes in my life. and i know the negs made me seem like a challenge. she was with me about 15-20 minutes. i was riding a high.

of course i blew it with her by ignoring her friends as they wandered off (stupid stupid, i was just so excited by her reaction i lost focus argh!!!) when they came over and grabbed her arm to leave, but that's a whole different story i'm trying to put behind me in retrospect, i should have called her out for ignoring her friends, something like "wow, do you always ignore your friends to pick-up guys at the bar?", then tried to entertain her friends. but really i'm just happy to be progressing and next time i'll be that much better.

anyway, i will keep the frame advice and all other points you guys made. i think what i take away is that i should stick with very tame negs and back off the dogs a little so i can stay in my frame.

btw -- vector great advice and i LOVE the wipe the face neg, classic!

[Welsh_Dragon]

This kind of approach can work with girls that know they are hot. To be honest the whole HB8,9,10 etc.. scale thing goes out of the window in this context anyway as Scoundrel pointed out because it fails to take into account what SHE thinks of HERSELF. Neg what may seem to be a HB9 by "industry" standards can go horribly wrong if you are uncalibrated and she turns out to be LSE in the wrong area. The whole rating scale is like body mass index in the fitness world in a lot of ways (i.e. too many exceptions for it to be a good rule of thumb). But I digress. Each girl must be individually assessed for the best tactic.

The thing is you have to stay congruent or it all falls apart. I can play that game sometimes but to be honest it's a lot of work. Depends on your mood I guess. That is why I screen so hard - it's just the quickest tactic I have found in the long run.

Reminds me of a story one night in Breadwinners Quarter Bar (Uptown) last thanksgiving. Mojo was there that night along with several other really top notch PUAs. I negged the shit out of a girl right out of the gate who knew she could get most guys with her looks. She wanted to fuck in the toilet which is not really my thing and I delivered the most crushing neg of all time by initially agreeing to her offer to "show me where the toilet is" and then changing my mind and rushing off. I made it in before she could get there, pissed and listened as outside she starts asking girls if they had seen me go into the toilet (as you know of course Breadwinners has the best toilet setup I have ever seen. Genuinely a great place to Sarge). She literally was my puppy dog after that to the point where I could embaress her. Only one time did my frame crack - we were in her car and she was adjusting the makeup and she says "My eyes are looking old" or something (she was mid thirties). I blurted it out before I could hold back "Oh no! You are beautiful" and she jolted. I had to work a little to get it back so you better stay focused all the way to fuck.

If it is the classic Jimmy Choo girl or whatever then that tactic can work. I also pivoted her into a genuine girl next door HB9 that night and solid #closed her. Oh the memories.