Conversation Threading / Openning people u know

[Guest]

This is a challenge for me. I normally carry around with me two or three memorized openers. They work well and I know how to thread them into a nice conversation.

The problem I am seeing is when I already know the people that I am speaking to and the conversation dies. This happens to me once I get to know a woman pretty well. After a month or so.

I know that there is something to be said for existing in silence, but I personally feel uncomfortable with silence. I get into a situation where they have already heard my two or three openners and I struggle to come up with new ones on the fly. Oh, I know the formula, but I just get into this mind lock state where I can't think of what to say next.

Any tips or suggestions to overcome this?

[Guest]

Getting comfortable with silence is a skill you need to acquire if you are serious about this skill-set. It's one of those hallmark signs of a natural leader.

The desired mentality is this: Get it out of your head that it's your role to entertain her/other people. Whether she's having a good time is totally on her. The way to approach interactions with others - ie your responsibility - is that you're there to share yourself with other people and to listen to/support their shit.

If you're done talking to her... walk away. That's the only thing to do. Don't force a conversation or it WILL come off as really weird and your value will drop like a rock.

In the same vain, don't approach conversation threading in terms of what to say next or in terms of having a stack of material to use.

You are always thinking something. Right now, you are probably brimming with internal dialogue. The question shouldn't be "what should I say," then, but "why am I not saying what I'm thinking?"

It's really just about possessing the self-confidence to express yourself - nothing more. It takes a certain moxie to say to yourself "I'm going to share this thought with the world"... especially when you know that thought is crass or will make you come off as an asshole.

But get this in your head... you have a RIGHT to express yourself, and fuck what anybody thinks.

Just be unapologetic about it and women WILL respect you. And if they respect you, their panties will drop.

That's all there is man.





[QUOTE=traxxus;41325]This is a challenge for me. I normally carry around with me two or three memorized openers. They work well and I know how to thread them into a nice conversation.

The problem I am seeing is when I already know the people that I am speaking to and the conversation dies. This happens to me once I get to know a woman pretty well. After a month or so.

I know that there is something to be said for existing in silence, but I personally feel uncomfortable with silence. I get into a situation where they have already heard my two or three openners and I struggle to come up with new ones on the fly. Oh, I know the formula, but I just get into this mind lock state where I can't think of what to say next.

Any tips or suggestions to overcome this?[/QUOTE]

[Guest]

For the most part I agree with you Grimm, however, I only have one caveat. There is something to be said about tact. Sometimes it's good to have it.

[Guest]

That's a vague term. What is "tact?" If you're talking about stifling or altering one's self-expression for fear of offending others, then I disagree like hell. You might as well be telling people to be beta doormats.

I do agree that it's important to have skill with words...ie being able to drill down to the heart of what one is actually meaning to express and communicating with a scalpel rather than a sledge hammer. That's something I'm working on myself these days.

If a thick woman asks you "do i look fat in this dress," do you lie and say "oh no, you look wonderful blah blah" like some beta weakling? No, just say what you think. Fuck it. NEVER appease.


[QUOTE=Finesse;41329]For the most part I agree with you Grimm, however, I only have one caveat. There is something to be said about tact. Sometimes it's good to have it.[/QUOTE]

[Guest]

I've always thought of tact as the ability to omit things that may be offensive to others during a conversation or interaction. It definitely has its place within the confines of an established relationship (i.e. girlfriend, friends, family, etc.). The reason is because you probably do know what is and is not offensive and upsetting to those individuals and it is your responsibilty to respect those topics and, for the most part, avoid them so as to make your time with those people enjoyable.

Now, if they bring up the topic then it's a different story entirely. If they want to talk about that which you skirt around then all bets are off. Here's where being articulate comes into play. So, to expand on Grimm's example of the chubby lady in the dress.

Chubby Lady: "Do you think I'm gaining weight / Do you think I should lose some weight?"

If she's your friend or you have a relationship with her then it is now your obligation to tell her your opinion but to do so in a respectful and articulate manner.

Bull Run: "Well, you have put on a few pounds and it wouldn't hurt if you put a little bit of effort into losing weight. Not just so you will look better but so you'll be healthier, feel better, have more energy, and will be more confident with how you look. I'd be happy to help you in any way I can...workout program, meal plan, etc. Plus anyways, if you lose a few pounds I'll definitely want to munch down on that pussy of yours more often...see, we all win..."

So, being tactful is not berating the poor woman about her insecurities and trying not to put her in a position where she feels bad or threaten or belittled by what the two of you are dicussing. Being articulate is using your words to communicate how you really feel but to do so in a respectful and positive manner. These are two totally different concepts.

Now, if it's a stranger that you've never met then you have zero idea of what is or is not offensive to them. So, being tactful kind of gets thrown out of the window. Now, there are some obvious things that you should stay away from when you've just met someone...if they're fat you're not going to call them fattie fat fats, if they're black/hispanic/asian/white etc. you're not going to drop a racial slur directed at their race, if they're disabled you're not going to tease them for not being able to walk, you'll treat seniors, parents, etc. with respect, etc. This is about the extent of tact that one can have when meeting a stranger and I'm not even sure I'd call it tact in this case...in this case it's just called being polite and fucking human.

Being articulate is, however, crucial when you first meet someone. You can say something that is borderline offensive as long as you explain exactly why you think what you said. For example, I met some of my GF's friends the other night and I was talking to one of her old friends from college (a guy that's married to one of her close friends). He was asking me about our relationship and I said something like this:

Bull Run: "Hey man, I think things are pretty good. It's still early but so far so good. There was a day when I would have been dating 2 or 3 girls just like her on the side but I have zero desire to do that with her at all. Which I find to be a great sign of my intentions. I mean fuck, just look at her...she's fucking adorable, she's kind, she's fun. I have zero complaints."

Most would probably say that I should never have mentioned the 'dating 2 or 3 other girls thing' but I did because it was the truth and I'm not going to lie just to spare someone's fucking feelings, especially some dude I just met. Fuck that guy. But, I followed up my statement with a very articulate explanation as to why it's different and as to why I'm just seeing her. Now, he chose to ignore the first part and the last part and just focused on the middle part. The 'bad' part, which he took out of context and twisted and distorted. He called her the next day and told her about my comment, she called me and asked me about it, and I told her he took it out of context and that what he chooses to hear and believe has nothing to do with what I said. She said that that's exactly what she thought happened.

I articulated my message well enough for him to understand. He decided not to process the rest of my statement. That's his problem. And, that's him just being stupid and petty. Most likely he's jealous.

I could have easily been more tactful and just omitted the dating other girls part but why? It's the truth and I'm not going to just fucking lie when asked. Ask me a question and I'll tell you the truth. The difference is that I'll do so in a positive, articulate, and respectful manner. It's up to other people to decide to listen or to be close minded and shut down and distort your words.

(Now, if it where her parents then I would never have said anything like that...again that's just being polite and seeing obvious things to omit for the sake of not causing any friction)

People do that shit all the fucking time and it has absolutely nothing to do with you. So, Grimm, I agree. Say what you want, say it with confidence, do not apologize for your what you believe, but do so in a respectful, positive, and articulate manner. Tact has a place with those that you have an established relationship with but it serves no purpose with those that you just first met. You don't know them, so how can you know what they're sensitive to and find offensive? You can't. You just have to understand that you're going to offend people. That's the way the world works. Some people are just way too sensitive and lack any level of self-esteem or confidence to deal with others without getting offended. Fuck them. That's there problem.

The key is just to not be a complete and utter, raging asshole. Skirt around the big, obvious things that others could find offensive but everything else is fair game as long as you explain yourself clearly.

[Guest]

There's a reason women love assholes. At least assholes are honest.

Let me be articulate here and expand on that thought.


If you say something you don't mean, or omit something you wish to say, you are "withdrawing." You are not being completely honest. You are avoiding confrontation.

If you appease, you are not in the drivers seat. You are letting someone else set the expectations of what you should say/do. You are letting the situation rule you, instead of being the alpha male and ruling the situation.

Gentlemen, appeasement is done out of fear. That is the primal motivator. Anything done out of fear is beta.

The only way to act is out of your own intentions.

Girl: Do I look fat in this dress?
Grimm: I hate that fucking dress, wear the white one.
Girl: (shocked) what?? ok... (some shit test)

And then at this point you can basically fuck her.

A fat girl knows she's fat. What she doesn't know is whether you have the balls to say so or if you're going to fall in line like 99% of guys out there do and lie. I'll let you decide which is the path you want to take.

[Guest]

[QUOTE]There's a reason women love assholes. At least assholes are honest.[/QUOTE]

But they don't stay in love with assholes.

Basically I agree with everything B R wrote.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Finesse;41333]But they don't stay in love with assholes.[QUOTE]


Seconded. At some point, you have to dull the asshole. Women fall for assholes, they stay with guys that are strong, powerful, respectful, and constantly growing/improving/etc.

In the end, a girl that stays with an asshole will eventually be burned by him hardcore or run from him into the arms of a Beta. Simple as that.

[Guest]

Hope this isn't considered old..

I'm not sure, but assuming these are targets.

If you've already opened and it's a month later and you have history... there's one way to go.. and I go that way 100% of the time anyways. Go in with confidence and assume attraction/comfort. So get into comfort and start to escalate.

Beginners think WHAT.. the average think how... and EXPERTS think WHERE.

[Guest]

Forgot to add....

Story-telling should be a huge help here. If you're experiencing life you should be creating new stories. Look at the attraction switches each of them hit and apply.

Other than openers you should be using bt spikes and gambits. Think about it.. after you know someone you COULD open them without saying a word. You could literally walk up and pet them or flip their hair or pinch their nose. Whatever is calibrated.