Mandatory Social Responses

[Guest]

BR you're the best man. Responses in [COLOR="Navy"]BLUE[/COLOR]

[QUOTE=Bull Run;41090]Dude you just described EXACTLY what I was talking about.

[COLOR=red]1. I believe deep down that I'm entitled to a hot meal when I come home from work from the wife.[/COLOR]

Your expectation, which you have no doubt made clear to her at some point. Otherwise how could you ever expect her to fulfill said expectation?
[COLOR="Navy"]Not really, one of my core beliefs is that I'm not a woman's babysitter. I'm not micro-managing her. She can figure out what kind of man I am for herself. Women are very good at that, in fact they get off on trying to figure you out. Sometimes she's just gonna step on a land mine and learn the hard way when she crosses a line.[/COLOR]


[COLOR=red]2. Wife hasn't cooked the meal. Realizing that conlict with my core belief, I am angry.[/COLOR]

Non-compliance. Again, if she DIDN'T cook the meal then you must have told her your expecation to have the meal cooked otherwise you have no authority to be angry.[COLOR="Navy"]See above. I will get angry, even if I haven't laid down the law, and I leave it up to her to react/adapt/learn.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=red]3. I yell at wife to cook the damn meal.[/COLOR]

PUNISHMENT. Duh...[COLOR="Navy"]Yeah but it's not like the thought crosses my mind "this is punishment, bitch"... I just feel like the world ain't right because I don't have dinner, and I believe I should have dinner, and I get angry to correct the imbalance in the world.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=red]4. I'm not apologetic for my actions. My core beliefs are solid. This causes wife to become more attracted to me as a man.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Navy"]I'm not apologetic because I'm not going to compromise my core values. Like you said, I know who I am, and what I want. Get on board or get off the bus.[/COLOR]

You're not apologetic because you know that your authority should not ever be questioned. You're the man, you want what you want, and you deserve to get exactly that assuming you lead, provide, protect, and provide her with her needs as well (I would say wants but that's not the same as a need). By acting like the man, you build attraction because you are being exactly what a woman wants: a MAN.

Seriously man, you basically said exactly what I was talking about but in a different way.

[COLOR="Navy"]That happens. Great minds think alike bro.[/COLOR]

AND, the most dangerous advice you can ever give is to say "just be yourself." That's horrible advice because pretty much all men are socially dysfunctional, especially in the Community. If we weren't socially dysfunctional and didn't know how to treat other people the way a man should treat them then we wouldn't be in the Community.

Leave that "just be yourself" advice at home man. Fact is that "yourself" is fucking broken...be someone else.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Navy"]But if you follow what I'm saying with my 4 step approach, then "being yourself" is exactly what you are doing. The problem with most guys is that they are NOT being themselves. And by that I mean they are not being TRUE to themselves...perhaps a better way to word it.

KNOW WHAT YOU BELIEVE

BE TRUE TO WHAT YOU BELIEVE

ACT ON YOUR FEELINGS

DON'T APOLOGIZE FOR YOUR BELIEFS AND FEELINGS


That pretty much summarizes what "be yourself" means in my mind.

The problem with guys that makes them "dysfunctional" is that they

A.) Have no idea what they want/believe/stand for
B.) Compromise their beliefs for a woman
C.) Change themselves for a woman, become "yes-men" nincompoops
D.) Don't express themselves, have no color or emotion or personality


Now if people can't take away any value from that, not my problem. Doesn't make it any less true. I'm not a babysitter.[/COLOR]

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Bull Run]Your expectation, which you have no doubt made clear to her at some point. Otherwise how could you ever expect her to fulfill said expectation?[/QUOTE]

That is what this thread is about at it's core. How do you get whatever it is that you want without saying, "I expect or I want this." We have been shown over and over again that stating a demand/expectation simply does not work without authority and some sort of provided behavioral plan.

Example with man with authority vs. man without authority:

Man with Authority: I provide for, protect, and lead you. I want you to cook my dinner. ( Her answer will be yes at some point because of the implied social contract between the two of you.)

Man without Authority: You just met me, I want you to cook my dinner. (Her: Laughing her ass off and walking away)

When you are a regular guy trying to pick up a high value woman, you do not have any implied authority over her. you have to establish this over some length of time. Until you have established enough authority to be able to say, "I expect/demand/want you to do XXX" you simple can not rely on direct statements like this. You must rely on something else. Hence, frame control, mandatory social responses, conversation leading, etc... Anything you can do to get compliance.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=grimm1111;41092]BR you're the best man. Responses in [COLOR=navy]BLUE[/COLOR]



[COLOR=navy]But if you follow what I'm saying with my 4 step approach, then "being yourself" is exactly what you are doing. The problem with most guys is that they are NOT being themselves. And by that I mean they are not being TRUE to themselves...perhaps a better way to word it.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=navy]KNOW WHAT YOU BELIEVE[/COLOR]

[COLOR=navy]BE TRUE TO WHAT YOU BELIEVE[/COLOR]

[COLOR=navy]ACT ON YOUR FEELINGS[/COLOR]

[COLOR=navy]DON'T APOLOGIZE FOR YOUR BELIEFS AND FEELINGS[/COLOR]


[COLOR=navy]That pretty much summarizes what "be yourself" means in my mind.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=navy]The problem with guys that makes them "dysfunctional" is that they[/COLOR]

[COLOR=navy]A.) Have no idea what they want/believe/stand for[/COLOR]
[COLOR=navy]B.) Compromise their beliefs for a woman[/COLOR]
[COLOR=navy]C.) Change themselves for a woman, become "yes-men" nincompoops[/COLOR]
[COLOR=navy]D.) Don't express themselves, have no color or emotion or personality[/COLOR]


[COLOR=navy]Now if people can't take away any value from that, not my problem. Doesn't make it any less true. I'm not a babysitter.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]


That's better my friend. I can get on board with this...

The reason men are socially dysfunctional has everything to do with not knowing what they want OR feeling that they don't deserve to want the things they want (for whatever reason but usually because of rampant feminism).

It really starts there. Know what you want and feel like you deserve to have what you want THEN fight to have it.

As for setting expectations, I think that women do love to figure a guy out BUT I also think, in some cases depending on how important an issue is to you, that you HAVE to lead and direct her to what is the appropriate behavior that you require/demand/deserve/want/etc.

An example, I dated a girl for a while that would always ask if I wanted eggs in the morning for breakfast. I always said no. But, she figured out that if she just made them for me without asking me if I wanted them then I would eat them. She figured that part of me out on her own (I want a woman to automatically take care of/nurture me not ASK if she has to). I never articulated that she should do this, she just figured it out on her own. I appreciated that immensely and rewarded her with affection, love, and a good roggering when she did so.

But, the same woman needed some coaching on my sexual requirements. I lead and directed her in that aspect and didn't wait for her to figure it out on her own. The reason is because that part of my life/a relationship is super important to me as a man and I don't want to wait around for months while a girl just figures out what I like. I want it how I want it when I want it the way I want it. And, I want it NOW. Fuck the eggs, but learn to fuck.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Bull Run;41094]That's better my friend. I can get on board with this...

The reason men are socially dysfunctional has everything to do with not knowing what they want OR feeling that they don't deserve to want the things they want (for whatever reason but usually because of rampant feminism).

It really starts there. Know what you want and feel like you deserve to have what you want THEN fight to have it.

As for setting expectations, I think that women do love to figure a guy out BUT I also think, in some cases depending on how important an issue is to you, that you HAVE to lead and direct her to what is the appropriate behavior that you require/demand/deserve/want/etc.

An example, I dated a girl for a while that would always ask if I wanted eggs in the morning for breakfast. I always said no. But, she figured out that if she just made them for me without asking me if I wanted them then I would eat them. She figured that part of me out on her own (I want a woman to automatically take care of/nurture me not ASK if she has to). I never articulated that she should do this, she just figured it out on her own. I appreciated that immensely and rewarded her with affection, love, and a good roggering when she did so.

But, the same woman needed some coaching on my sexual requirements. I lead and directed her in that aspect and didn't wait for her to figure it out on her own. The reason is because that part of my life/a relationship is super important to me as a man and I don't want to wait around for months while a girl just figures out what I like. I want it how I want it when I want it the way I want it. And, I want it NOW. Fuck the eggs, but learn to fuck.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="Navy"]You're not setting expectations because you need to do it to attract the girl or be anything. You're doing it because you believe a girl should do this, and if she doesn't, then you correct her. It's just an extension of you being you, and you communicating with the girl.

"No baby, like THIS...ohhhhhhhhh"[/COLOR]

[Guest]

[QUOTE=traxxus;41093]That is what this thread is about at it's core. How do you get whatever it is that you want without saying, "I expect or I want this." We have been shown over and over again that stating a demand/expectation simply does not work without authority and some sort of provided behavioral plan.

Example with man with authority vs. man without authority:

Man with Authority: I provide for, protect, and lead you. I want you to cook my dinner. ( Her answer will be yes at some point because of the implied social contract between the two of you.)

Man without Authority: You just met me, I want you to cook my dinner. (Her: Laughing her ass off and walking away)

When you are a regular guy trying to pick up a high value woman, you do not have any implied authority over her. you have to establish this over some length of time. Until you have established enough authority to be able to say, "I expect/demand/want you to do XXX" you simple can not rely on direct statements like this. You must rely on something else. Hence, frame control, mandatory social responses, conversation leading, etc... Anything you can do to get compliance.[/QUOTE]


You command authority much, much more quickly than you may believe. As a matter of fact, you can probably command a very healthy level of authority on one good day2.

As for demands, you don't actually make direct demands. That's what a dictator does. She's not your slave, but she is there to SERVE you. So, how do you get someone to do something for you without being overbearing? Simple. Anecdotes, stories, and philosophy. Here's what I mean:

I like to have my space in a relationship. I don't want some girl texting, calling, and coming over all the fucking time. It cramps my style and I simply find most people to be intolerable if I'm around them too much. Call it a character flaw, if you do then fuck you.

So, to manage this I always talk about my philosophy regarding how a relationship should be structured.

Bull Run: "In my opinion, there are two types of relationships."
HB Random: "Which are?"
Bull Run: "An 'A' frame and an 'H' frame."
HB Random: "What does that mean?"
Bull Run: "Well, in an 'A' frame relationship you have two people, as represented by the sides of the 'A'. You'll notice that the two sides are leaning on each other. If one isn't present, the other falls."
HB Random: "What's an 'H' frame relationship?"
Bull Run: "Well, an 'H' frame has two sides like the 'A' frame relationship but you'll see that they both stand up on their own accord and have a connection to each other so they can share themselves. If one isn't present, the other doesn't fall. It stands on it's own accord."
HB Random: Blah, blah, blah
Bull Run: "The most successful relationships are 'H' frame relationships where both people have their own lives and they meet in the middle to share them. Most of my friends are in 'A' frame relationships and they're miserable because you begin to lose sight of where you end and they begin, and vice versa."

That's what I mean by discussing your philosophy. I didn't come out and say that I want my space or that I need for her to not be around all the time. Instead, I told her how the structure of a healthy relationship should be, in my mind at least. Now, she can extrapoliate what that means (and, women get this subtle hint). It's at this point where she either decides to comply or not and that's where authority comes into play. If she respects you and looks up to you, almost as a father figure (and let's face it those are the BEST relationships), then she'll comply with this demand/expectation. And, you didn't have to come out and say "hey, you stupid bitch don't fucking smother me with your constant, incessant emails, texts, visits, etc."

Is it manipulation? Nope. You're simply setting an expectation that she, again, can decide to comply with or not.

That's how it's done. You use GENERAL examples and philosophies and allow her to apply them to your SPECIFIC relationship. Women get that shit, they really do.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=grimm1111;41095][COLOR=navy]You're not setting expectations because you need to do it to attract the girl or be anything. You're doing it because you believe a girl should do this, and if she doesn't, then you correct her. It's just an extension of you being you, and you communicating with the girl.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=navy]"No baby, like THIS...ohhhhhhhhh"[/COLOR][/QUOTE]


Exactly.

[Guest]

You're thinking WAY too hard about this. How is this going to apply in a practical interaction with a woman? Are you actually going to think to yourself...

"Let's see here... am I a man of authority, or without? I provide for, protect, and lead you. I want you to cook my dinner. Yeah, that's it."


[COLOR="Red"]"Ahem. I would like YOU to cook my dinner.... Please."[/COLOR]

No, no, no. That is not practical.

What's gonna happen? She's gonna throw you some curveball, and you'll be back on here next week with a new iteration of the social matrix that you haven't considered.

At the end of the day, you can't THINK your way through an interaction man, that's the bottom line. It's too complex. The only thing you can do is train yourself to think and react correctly at a core level and BE a man of value as opposed to ACTING like a man of value.


[QUOTE=traxxus;41093]That is what this thread is about at it's core. How do you get whatever it is that you want without saying, "I expect or I want this." We have been shown over and over again that stating a demand/expectation simply does not work without authority and some sort of provided behavioral plan.

Example with man with authority vs. man without authority:

Man with Authority: I provide for, protect, and lead you. I want you to cook my dinner. ( Her answer will be yes at some point because of the implied social contract between the two of you.)

Man without Authority: You just met me, I want you to cook my dinner. (Her: Laughing her ass off and walking away)

When you are a regular guy trying to pick up a high value woman, you do not have any implied authority over her. you have to establish this over some length of time. Until you have established enough authority to be able to say, "I expect/demand/want you to do XXX" you simple can not rely on direct statements like this. You must rely on something else. Hence, frame control, mandatory social responses, conversation leading, etc... Anything you can do to get compliance.[/QUOTE]

[Guest]

In the end I don't think we are disagreeing here.

When it comes down to it, there are only 2 fundamental types of speech, statements and questions. There are variations of the two but really that's all there is.

What you are saying is, "be more of a statement kind of guy". Correct?

[QUOTE]You never state your opinion, instead you ask bullshit questions that inherently lead people to answer the way in which you want. When, they don't, THEN you state your case. This is not how a man acts.[/QUOTE]BTW, when have you not known my position on something?

Regardless, you just said I never state my opinion, then a few sentences later said I do such and such first, then state my case.. Either way, it doesn't really matter, because I only "ask questions and then state my case" when I care about the person I am talking to or want to make sure everyone else is following what I am saying. Sure I could state "blah blah" right now, but wouldn't rather have more information to see where I am coming from? Should I expect people on this forum to just follow my commands without any questions?

I mean, essentially that's what you are saying,

[QUOTE]Everyone else: I'm unsure of your leadership abilities...
Finesse: I can lead you because I'm good and all I do is good[/QUOTE]And that's fine, but I don't presume to know everything about pick up. People shouldn't follow me. And that leads me to this:

You assume I am looking to lead here, why? I am not looking for power or control of anything in this lair. I am a moderator and that's it.

Questions are my train of thought. Questions are EVERYONE'S train of thought.

Example: You approach someone and say, "hi". Do you think they just sit there without any thoughts on what you just did? Or do you think they are thinking to themselves about something?

I agree that statements are stronger than questions, questions level the playing field, per se.

Don't dismiss the ability of questions.

[Guest]

I think between the 4 of you, I got my question answered.

[Guest]

Yeah, I guess opinions are like assholes. Everyone's got at least one.