The 4 month mark

[Guest]

Ive been doing the relationship thing for exactly 4 months now. Its had its ups and downs. Lately seems as if theres been more downs than ups and I feel like Ive been upper cut...

Ive noticed in many relationships, around the 4 month mark, is the the crucial point that the relationship either breaks off or it treks forward into the next level. I always feel the shit tests are stronger during this time. It could be because of me, projecting my insecurities around this point as I feel the need to make an important decision, to up the ante or to break away, back into bachelorism.

I can never recall the trends of my behavior from intitial courtship to the crucial mark. but I am certain there is a central flow and gradual change in my behavior. The honeymoon stage is long gone and what is left is the salt after the water boils away. I'm not sure if I like the look or taste of the salt. It is often bitter and lacks the compromise that I desire.

I find high-value women are less willing to compromise, compared to their opposite counterparts, after the newness wears away. An average woman is often more submissive and willing to cooperate to keep me happy in the varying facets of our daily expositions. I question, is the lack of compromise I feel with HV women because HV women do not see me as an equal to their value? Or is this an act of feminism, of our generation, that I am going to have to adjust to, in order to keep them? If she is less willing to compromise the only thing I see a man can do is hold his ground and hope that she will conform to his lifestyle. Or he can submit to her world in order to please her so that he may be rewarded in return, but on her terms.

I question how does a HV women differ in her behavior when comfronted with a man whom they percieve as higher value than themselves... Are they more willing to compromise and become the submissive creatures that is necessary to please their HV man? Can Game really allow an average man the tools necessary to have and to hold on to the high value women he desires? I'm beginning to believe that unless one actually leads a lifestyle that is HV, the only tool he can rely on is his silver tongue,and he will only enjoy the fruits of lust not fruits of love. The very high value women will ride on the wave, but when the wave breaks they are looking into the horizon for a higher crest.

Once the smoke in the mirrors clears away the only thing left is the salt.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Carnal;41007] I'm beginning to believe that unless one actually leads a lifestyle that is HV, the only tool he can rely on is his silver tongue,and he will only enjoy the fruits of lust not fruits of love.[/QUOTE]

QFT.

I'm curious - do you feel that you actually lead a high value life? From your post, it seems that you have some doubts.

When all is said and done, some girls may not feel that you aren't worth adjusting too. And that may be because you don't feel that you have a high value life.

Or - it could also be that they aren't as high value as you seem to think they are.

[Guest]

I have considered this also. Must a man continually game his woman just to keep her attraction? Once your "alpha" mask is torn away and she is confronted with the real you, how will that impact her perception of you. After all, no man can keep up an illusion forever.

My experiences, a 12 year relationship which produced 2 children followed by a catastrophic breakup, and then a year and a half studying pickup and social engineering, I can tell you this is what my experience has taught me.

First, The only way to be high value is to live a high value lifestyle. You are correct in this. So the question is, What is a high value lifestyle? You have to define that for yourself.

Second, a woman who finds you her superior will bend over backwards for you no matter what. If she finds herself your equal, she will be submissive but also combative with you in equal measure. If she see's you as her inferior, then she will not compromise at all and you will lose her attraction because she can not maintain dominance and attraction at the same time. Again, her perception of what is value may vary and be different from yours.

Thus you may consider yourself high value, but she may consider you low value because you don't value the same things.

Third, the best way to encourage compromise is to change the paradigm of the interaction. A really great book to read here is Kevin Hogan's "The Science of Influence." Regardless of value, you can influence any person male or female by changing their Environment, Your appearance, by building rapport, or by establishing credibility. Personally, in relationships, I have found environment and appearance to be the most successful for men. Women will instinctively try to go the credibility, bringing an interloper into a relationship.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Lazarus;41008]QFT.[/QUOTE]

What is QFT?

[QUOTE=Lazarus;41008]I'm curious - do you feel that you actually lead a high value life? From your post, it seems that you have some doubts. [/QUOTE]

I wouldnt say I have some doubts of my value. I would say I know exactly where I stand in the spectrum of value. I am not at the bottom nor am I at the top.

Lets just say I'm no Rockefeller but I'm also not scraping to get by.

My girlfriend has many close guy friends. I think I compare myself too much to these guys. Its hard not to when you're meeting them and each party is throwing out DHV's, as guys do, in order to establish dominance. Several of them own companies. One of them owns a mansion in Highland Park and a yacht. Another owns a popular sports bar on Greenville Avenue and drives a Lambo. Two of her girlfriends are Cowboys cheerleaders.
She has dated men of high status like musicians, artists, professional atheletes, and wealthy business owners.

I am not putting aside the amazing personalites and lives that these people may live. I am kinda focusing on financial status here just to make a quick point. I do not believe fininacial status is necessary to keep a hv girl around but it helps. No need to mention that financial success is a by product of hard work and luck.

I feel that it is extremely important to know exactly where you come from and where you are going and to live a rich life filled with friends, and family, and fun filled social activities. It's important to be happy and have a sense of humor and feel grounded where ever you are even if you happen to be out of your element. That's value. I have come to realize how important it is to be a leader of men and have the ability to build relationships with people in general.
I honestly do not have alot of friends. My friends are scattered and all from different circles. I think not having a very strong circle of friends hurts my value.

So in comparison to some people and their value I am in the shadows. There is always someone better looking, more grounded, more successful than all of us.

[QUOTE=Lazarus;41008] When all is said and done, some girls may not feel that you aren't worth adjusting too. And that may be because you don't feel that you have a high value life.[/QUOTE]

Could it not also be that they want more than what I am offering? I am not convinced that simply having the feeling that you have a high value life is what is going to convince a high value woman to be involved in a long term relationship with you.

[QUOTE=Lazarus;41008] it could also be that they aren't as high value as you seem to think they are.[/QUOTE]

I have been with all different types of women. The difference is clear. There is some gray area as to what we all percieve as real value. Is it required for a woman of high value to be a 10? Not necessarily. Is it necessary for a high value woman to have high value friends in order to be percieved as high value? Not necessarily. Are filters and screens required for a woman to be high value? Absoluetly. Is it necessary for a woman of high value come from a stable house hold and be family oriented? Absolutely.

It is important to figure out what a woman places her value in. Then decide if she's worth your time. Some of us may realize that in order to obtain the type of women we want, we will need to make adjustments. We make additions or subtractions, in order to align with the type of women we want.

Its knowing what to add or subtract that makes it challenging.

[Guest]

[QUOTE][B]1val·ue[/B]

[I]noun[/I] \ˈval-(ˌ)yü\
[B]Definition of [I]VALUE[/I][/B]

1
[B]:[/B] a fair return or equivalent in goods, services, or money for something exchanged

2
[B]:[/B] the monetary worth of something [B]:[/B] [URL="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/market+price"]market price[/URL]

3
[B]:[/B] relative worth, utility, or importance

4
[B]:[/B] a numerical quantity that is assigned or is determined by calculation or measurement

5
[B]:[/B] the relative duration of a musical note

6
[I]a[/I] [B]:[/B] relative lightness or darkness of a color [B]:[/B] [URL="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/luminosity"]luminosity[/URL] [I]b[/I] [B]:[/B] the relation of one part in a picture to another with respect to lightness and darkness

7
[B]:[/B] something (as a principle or quality) intrinsically [URL="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/valuable"]valuable[/URL] or desirable

[/QUOTE]

The answers to your questions about a woman's value reside in what exactly it is you value.

BTW, your alpha mask shouldn't be a mask. It should just be you. The biggest misconception about the community is that we manipulate women. Well, it's only manipulation if you are "wearing a mask" and aren't actually then man you portrait yourself to be.

Based on the tone I perceived in your writings it almost sounds as if you're awe struck by these people in her life, eventually that will be a problem.
[QUOTE]I am not putting aside the amazing personalites and lives that these people may live[/QUOTE]

Ultimately, what I get from most on this site is that they favor looks over utility. And that's fine, but just realize that in today's society when looks are of primary importance, over all else, value is exactly how you described it. Namely:[QUOTE]The very high value women will ride on the wave, but when the wave breaks they are looking into the horizon for a higher crest. [/QUOTE]

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Finesse;41017]
BTW, your alpha mask shouldn't be a mask. It should just be you. The biggest misconception about the community is that we manipulate women. Well, it's only manipulation if you are "wearing a mask" and aren't actually then man you portrait yourself to be.
[/QUOTE]

This is something I've been thinking about a lot for a while now, especially since "high value" is a subjective concept among women. There are general qualities that of course we can all agree are "alpha" or "high value," but even within that I think there is a lot of grey area. Think about it, there are definite situations in which a man's action can be viewed by one woman as a sign of strength, and by another as a sign of weakness. There's a common complaint on this board about low value guys pulling high value chicks, and I think part of it has to do with this.

The only recourse I've found is to look honestly at myself and forget about who I'm "expected" to be. What matters is figuring out who I actually am, and who I have the potential to become. If you can be genuinely comfortable in your own skin, none of the above will ever be a problem. Of course, this is easier said than done, but it's something I've been working on for months now.

[Guest]

She broke up with me yesterday. She said she felt like we were too different to make it work. She felt like we were two puzzle pieces trying to force each other to fit...

I felt that I was doing everything right. But looking back in retrospect I think I did alot based off of what has worked for pulling quantity, not quality.

Its a whole different ball game when you meet someone who has all of the qualities that you ever wanted in a companion. The timing was fucking off. I really really liked this chic but I can honestly state that I just wasnt in the right state of mind make this work. Damn....

I feel like I over-gamed the whole time. Too much break in rapport to get her to chase and she never fell into that trap. Its always worked for me before.

Oh well - back to the drawing boards. I think I'm going to take on an entirely different approach this go-around.

I learned more about myself in this quick relationship than I have learned in a long time.

It is extremely extremely important to have friends yall. And more than just a wingman that goes out with you to pull chics. Thats cool and sometimes very rewarding but its soo important to have more than that.
I have gotten soo caught up in blindly chasing women since getting into this underground channel of knowledge three years ago that I have misplaced the importance of having genuine friends from different backrounds and all walks of life. I think a huge part of peoples confidence and securities come from having a solid core group of friends.

One can mold himself to look and act like a greek god but its all for nothing if he doesnt the social backing necessary to keep him lifted up. This is the second time Ive found a hv chic that had all the qualities that I want and again I failed. The one thing I notice in both relationships is that my amount of value is directly related to the people in my network (or lack of). Birds of a feather flock together...

[Guest]

I think you are over-generalizing.

[QUOTE]...is that my amount of value is directly related to the people in my network (or lack of).[/QUOTE]

You're on the right track, clothes, friends, shoes, belongings, do not a man make. Integrity, stoicism, and virtue do.

First rate people/things in your life are better than having quantity. That's what you are striving for, no? Quality over quantity?

You can know a bunch of people, but if you really are a man of quality you'll only have a few in each category that you count with high esteem. That is the mark of man with standards.

That said, you are tying your value to those around you.. why? You can't control those around you and even the best of friends will eventually let you down somehow, so why are you tying your value to those around you?

There are 2 paths in pickup.

The social relationship, and the traditional relationship. A social relationship will NEVER be a traditional relationship, but a traditional relationship CAN revert to a social one.

This past relationship you were in was a social one through and through and you were looking for a traditional one it seemed. You tied your own self value to the perceived value of those around, or in your case not around, you, i.e. social relationship. In social relationships, the girl will never act in the "couples" best interest. Instead they will act in their own selfish interest and sacrifice you for their own self preservation and betterment. If the relationship is advanced in conjunction with her status, then great but it's not a requirement.

[Guest]

You're spot on Finesse. Thank you.

I thought that she was looking for a traditional relationship. Our parents have met. Her parents loved me. We did alot of things together and for each other in the beginning. It was really good in the beginning. Last week we purchased expensive ass tickets and planned an extravagent trip oversees for August (hope I can get my money refunded). She always gave me alot of pda when we were out, always kissing and holding my hand around her friends.

Yea, I guess I didnt really know what I wanted untill it was too late. I feel like its rare to find a chic that hasn't run herself thin at my age and when I do find one I'm ecstatic. Once I bed a chic and then find out what kind of person she is I'm usually turned off. And when I find one that I want, I have a tendency to unravel and loose my sack of balls... This was the kind of girl that I could marry. I lost my direction.

Honestly, initially, I'm usually only thinking about that one thing when I'm running game... getting laid. Ive got that figured out but really, really thats just baby steps to a bigger picture. A focus on getting laid is superficial. But its what men in pickup and outside of pickup do. Getting laid is no longer the daunting task. The daunting task is much deeper. I dont want to be practising pick-up for the rest of my life.

Usually the girls that always get me hooked are the ones that are the biggest challenge to sack. And usually the only reason I ever decide to get into a relationship is because they choose me. They ask to make that leap, not me. I cannot recall a time when i let my guard down and asked a chic to be monogamous with me... I was more than happy to compli in this case but I didnt realize I wasnt ready.

Obviously I need to reprogram here or I'm just going to continue doing damage to myself. Ive got some misconstrued ideas of what it is I actually want. I'm going to be working on that...

[Guest]

I would love to get her back. I wish I knew of something I could do.