A good friend of mine has sought my advice on his sticking points. I gave some advice but his sticking points are way different than mine so I didn't really know what to tell him. Sometimes the worst person to ask for financial advice is a rich guy so I thought I would seek out some wisdom from you guys.
He suffers from girls flaking on him really bad. Even before I could build attraction I could get girls to come hang out at places. I have never had as tough a time as he has had with this. I told him the standard stuff about building comfort but there has to be someway to fake it till you make it in this area. Any suggestions?
The other thing is that he is in my age range(31) but is highly attracted to 19-23 year olds. Recently a 21 year old girl asked about his age in a text, and then went dark when he said he was over 30. Again I haven't ever been attracted to young girls so with the 3 or 4 I dated it wasn't an issue. It was like I was making an exception for them. But again this has been almost impossible for him to overcome and has actually made him become pretty insecure about his age. He has reluctantly started targeting older women but I think he should go after what he really wants, not comprimise. How have some of you overcome these issues?
Dallas PUA
The Pickup Artist Playground
Age ain't nothing but a number
7 posts
• Page 1 of 1
by Guest » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:13 pm
For the flaking - this is somewhat of a KJ answer, because flaking was never a big problem for me, but has he tried time bridging and gauging her response from that? However, if the majority are flaking, I'm going to out on a limb and say that his sticking point isn't flaking - it's something much earlier. Flaking is just an effect.
As for the age: my standard answer is 1) Say something outrageous - either "12" or "93." The chick will either a) laugh, which lets us role play into how I look so young given I'm so old or b) ask again, in which case I'll say "Guess." Once they guess, I'll say "Close enough" and then move on.
As for the age: my standard answer is 1) Say something outrageous - either "12" or "93." The chick will either a) laugh, which lets us role play into how I look so young given I'm so old or b) ask again, in which case I'll say "Guess." Once they guess, I'll say "Close enough" and then move on.
- Guest
by Guest » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:43 pm
my age-o-meter is completely broken. I can't tell a 20 year old whore from a 29 year old whore until I get her naked. /sigh.
I have trouble with the age thing to, but I think it's about frame control more than anything. If they accept your frame that ignores age. If you cut it completely out of your reality, and they accept your frame, then they wont care. This is my working theory anyway. I haven't mastered this yet, but I am better at it then I was a few months ago.. I got BRUTALLY blown out on the age thing on a 2 set I opened at the mall. Since then I have been working on this.
In my experience, limited though it may be, flaking is always a side effect of not building enough rapport (comfort) initially. I have this problem sometimes to, but when I think back about it, it is always with women I have just not build any or significant connection with. I would say on average, it takes me about 15-20 minutes to build enough comfort with a woman to have her go on a day 2 or change location, sometimes it is longer, but if I don't screw up 15-20 solid minutes. Some say that they can do this more quickly but I have not witnessed it, and not sure I believe it.
I have trouble with the age thing to, but I think it's about frame control more than anything. If they accept your frame that ignores age. If you cut it completely out of your reality, and they accept your frame, then they wont care. This is my working theory anyway. I haven't mastered this yet, but I am better at it then I was a few months ago.. I got BRUTALLY blown out on the age thing on a 2 set I opened at the mall. Since then I have been working on this.
In my experience, limited though it may be, flaking is always a side effect of not building enough rapport (comfort) initially. I have this problem sometimes to, but when I think back about it, it is always with women I have just not build any or significant connection with. I would say on average, it takes me about 15-20 minutes to build enough comfort with a woman to have her go on a day 2 or change location, sometimes it is longer, but if I don't screw up 15-20 solid minutes. Some say that they can do this more quickly but I have not witnessed it, and not sure I believe it.
- Guest
by Guest » Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:57 am
It is typical for women to flake, it is their nature. Women flake because many of their actions are driven by thier emotions. So when you ask a girl to hang out, or for her number, she may say yes because at that very moment, she may feel good about it (you). But then, a few hours or days later, she has a completely different set of emotions that may cause her to flake. If there is any inkling of discomfort (call it intuition, a “bad” feeling), she will more than likely flake if you do not have sufficient interest built.
Girls may flake because you have not demonstrated enough value (read as low attraction which means not enough interest). Most attractive women constantly have multiple men chasing them and it is not uncommon for them to be dating a few at the same time. So a girl may flake on you if you’re her 3rd option. How do you avoid being flaked on? Be her starting quarterback. How do you do this? By communicating that you are a man of value, more importantly, higher value than her other suitors.
I typically experience two types of flakes.
One, you have the flake that you number closed but have never hung out with. I’m sure we’ve all number closed a girl but then when we text them, they never text back. Or you text them to try to set up a day 2 only to have her come up with some lame excuse. This is very common and happens all the time. Typically, I will give a girl two chances before I delete her number.
If I am texting a girl for the very first time after getting her number and she doesn’t respond, I will generally wait a few days and text her again. If I get no response, delete. NEXT!
If she responds, then I will try to schedule a day two at some point. If the girl is not interested, they will try to flake with some lame excuse. Same as above, I will wait a few days to reopen, and try to schedule a day two. If I cannot set something up on the second attempt, delete. NEXT! What I’ve noticed is that if a girl has high interest level, they will never flake, and if they do, they will typically try to reschedule for another time. Some girls are just busy, but if she wants to hang out with you, she’ll do whatever she can to make it happen.
To get a high response ratio, your initial text should be something intriguing that will entice a girl to text back. Then you can run text game to try to set up a day two. But as I have said above, if you do not have sufficient interest built from the original interaction, there is no good opening text that will generate a response. If there is some interest, then she will probably respond and hopefully your text game is tight enough that her interest level continues to grow as you text back and forth.
Second, you have the flakes that you’ve hung out with and then they flake on future dates. They flake because something went wrong. Maybe she realized that you actually had lower value than she originally perceived. Or maybe you did something to turn her off. There are a plethora of reasons, all of which are unique to each situation.
If a girl flakes after we’ve hung out a few times, I usually give them radio silence; meaning, that I will not text her for a whole week. I will not contact her or try to set something up. If she has not texted you in a week, delete. NEXT! The interest is just not there. If she has texted you during the week, just ignore it. If a week has passed and she is still texting you, then text back with something short and brief. Then ignore her again for a few days. Then I will text her with something like, “Let’s meet up for drinks tomorrow at 8pm at bar XYZ.” If she flakes or does not respond, delete. NEXT!
Ultimately, it comes down to this: if a girl has high interest level, she will not flake. Flaking is simply a symptom of poor game. Maybe you didn’t generate enough attraction, comfort or rapport. Maybe you came on too strong and now she has buyer’s remorse. Or you DLV’ed when you went on a date with her. Or sometimes, she is legitimately busy with life, it happens. The key is that you brush it off, and move on without letting it discourage you.
Notice that I used interest instead of attraction or comfort. The common belief is that if you do not have enough comfort she’ll flake. I don't think that’s always the case. If youre hot and she’s attracted to you, she probably wouldn’t flake. So when I say interest level, it encompasses attraction, comfort and rapport, because all of those can play a role in a girl flaking (or not).
Girls may flake because you have not demonstrated enough value (read as low attraction which means not enough interest). Most attractive women constantly have multiple men chasing them and it is not uncommon for them to be dating a few at the same time. So a girl may flake on you if you’re her 3rd option. How do you avoid being flaked on? Be her starting quarterback. How do you do this? By communicating that you are a man of value, more importantly, higher value than her other suitors.
I typically experience two types of flakes.
One, you have the flake that you number closed but have never hung out with. I’m sure we’ve all number closed a girl but then when we text them, they never text back. Or you text them to try to set up a day 2 only to have her come up with some lame excuse. This is very common and happens all the time. Typically, I will give a girl two chances before I delete her number.
If I am texting a girl for the very first time after getting her number and she doesn’t respond, I will generally wait a few days and text her again. If I get no response, delete. NEXT!
If she responds, then I will try to schedule a day two at some point. If the girl is not interested, they will try to flake with some lame excuse. Same as above, I will wait a few days to reopen, and try to schedule a day two. If I cannot set something up on the second attempt, delete. NEXT! What I’ve noticed is that if a girl has high interest level, they will never flake, and if they do, they will typically try to reschedule for another time. Some girls are just busy, but if she wants to hang out with you, she’ll do whatever she can to make it happen.
To get a high response ratio, your initial text should be something intriguing that will entice a girl to text back. Then you can run text game to try to set up a day two. But as I have said above, if you do not have sufficient interest built from the original interaction, there is no good opening text that will generate a response. If there is some interest, then she will probably respond and hopefully your text game is tight enough that her interest level continues to grow as you text back and forth.
Second, you have the flakes that you’ve hung out with and then they flake on future dates. They flake because something went wrong. Maybe she realized that you actually had lower value than she originally perceived. Or maybe you did something to turn her off. There are a plethora of reasons, all of which are unique to each situation.
If a girl flakes after we’ve hung out a few times, I usually give them radio silence; meaning, that I will not text her for a whole week. I will not contact her or try to set something up. If she has not texted you in a week, delete. NEXT! The interest is just not there. If she has texted you during the week, just ignore it. If a week has passed and she is still texting you, then text back with something short and brief. Then ignore her again for a few days. Then I will text her with something like, “Let’s meet up for drinks tomorrow at 8pm at bar XYZ.” If she flakes or does not respond, delete. NEXT!
Ultimately, it comes down to this: if a girl has high interest level, she will not flake. Flaking is simply a symptom of poor game. Maybe you didn’t generate enough attraction, comfort or rapport. Maybe you came on too strong and now she has buyer’s remorse. Or you DLV’ed when you went on a date with her. Or sometimes, she is legitimately busy with life, it happens. The key is that you brush it off, and move on without letting it discourage you.
Notice that I used interest instead of attraction or comfort. The common belief is that if you do not have enough comfort she’ll flake. I don't think that’s always the case. If youre hot and she’s attracted to you, she probably wouldn’t flake. So when I say interest level, it encompasses attraction, comfort and rapport, because all of those can play a role in a girl flaking (or not).
- Guest
by Guest » Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:39 am
[QUOTE=Prodigy;39107]It is typical for women to flake, it is their nature. Women flake because many of their actions are driven by thier emotions. So when you ask a girl to hang out, or for her number, she may say yes because at that very moment, she may feel good about it (you). But then, a few hours or days later, she has a completely different set of emotions that may cause her to flake. If there is any inkling of discomfort (call it intuition, a “bad” feeling), she will more than likely flake if you do not have sufficient interest built.
Girls may flake because you have not demonstrated enough value (read as low attraction which means not enough interest). Most attractive women constantly have multiple men chasing them and it is not uncommon for them to be dating a few at the same time. So a girl may flake on you if you’re her 3rd option. How do you avoid being flaked on? Be her starting quarterback. How do you do this? By communicating that you are a man of value, more importantly, higher value than her other suitors.
I typically experience two types of flakes.
One, you have the flake that you number closed but have never hung out with. I’m sure we’ve all number closed a girl but then when we text them, they never text back. Or you text them to try to set up a day 2 only to have her come up with some lame excuse. This is very common and happens all the time. Typically, I will give a girl two chances before I delete her number.
If I am texting a girl for the very first time after getting her number and she doesn’t respond, I will generally wait a few days and text her again. If I get no response, delete. NEXT!
If she responds, then I will try to schedule a day two at some point. If the girl is not interested, they will try to flake with some lame excuse. Same as above, I will wait a few days to reopen, and try to schedule a day two. If I cannot set something up on the second attempt, delete. NEXT! What I’ve noticed is that if a girl has high interest level, they will never flake, and if they do, they will typically try to reschedule for another time. Some girls are just busy, but if she wants to hang out with you, she’ll do whatever she can to make it happen.
To get a high response ratio, your initial text should be something intriguing that will entice a girl to text back. Then you can run text game to try to set up a day two. But as I have said above, if you do not have sufficient interest built from the original interaction, there is no good opening text that will generate a response. If there is some interest, then she will probably respond and hopefully your text game is tight enough that her interest level continues to grow as you text back and forth.
Second, you have the flakes that you’ve hung out with and then they flake on future dates. They flake because something went wrong. Maybe she realized that you actually had lower value than she originally perceived. Or maybe you did something to turn her off. There are a plethora of reasons, all of which are unique to each situation.
If a girl flakes after we’ve hung out a few times, I usually give them radio silence; meaning, that I will not text her for a whole week. I will not contact her or try to set something up. If she has not texted you in a week, delete. NEXT! The interest is just not there. If she has texted you during the week, just ignore it. If a week has passed and she is still texting you, then text back with something short and brief. Then ignore her again for a few days. Then I will text her with something like, “Let’s meet up for drinks tomorrow at 8pm at bar XYZ.” If she flakes or does not respond, delete. NEXT!
Ultimately, it comes down to this: if a girl has high interest level, she will not flake. Flaking is simply a symptom of poor game. Maybe you didn’t generate enough attraction, comfort or rapport. Maybe you came on too strong and now she has buyer’s remorse. Or you DLV’ed when you went on a date with her. Or sometimes, she is legitimately busy with life, it happens. The key is that you brush it off, and move on without letting it discourage you.
Notice that I used interest instead of attraction or comfort. The common belief is that if you do not have enough comfort she’ll flake. I think that’s always the case. If you hot and she’s attracted to you, she probably wouldn’t flake. So when I say interest level, it encompasses attraction, comfort and rapport, because all of those can play a role in a girl flaking (or not).[/QUOTE]
Holy shit Prodigy, this is exactly the answer I was hoping for. This really showed me the differences in ways he acts and ways a lot of the better puas I know act. I really do have some things I can point out to him now. Thanks dude
@Trax the age thing seems tough to me on a fundamental basis. I'll explain. He is very attracted to youth, he is no longer young therefore once his age comes up he feels less attractive. I've seen him backpeddle in sets or not know the right thing to say quite a few times. I don't think its his words I think it's this insecurity that leaks out and girls simply pick up on it. Where as I have never hidden my age and made fun of girls for being too young and always said things that made them mad at first but attracted to me. "Let's go to Chucky Cheese" "If you are a good girl I'll buy you some ice cream later" I've gamed 3 young girls since I've been in this. Two 19 year olds and one 23 year old. And to be honest their age was the least attractive thing about them. I don't know how to achieve the right mindset without changing what you attracted to. If that makes sense. My attitude never needed this adjusting because I prefer women in the 25 and up demographic.
Girls may flake because you have not demonstrated enough value (read as low attraction which means not enough interest). Most attractive women constantly have multiple men chasing them and it is not uncommon for them to be dating a few at the same time. So a girl may flake on you if you’re her 3rd option. How do you avoid being flaked on? Be her starting quarterback. How do you do this? By communicating that you are a man of value, more importantly, higher value than her other suitors.
I typically experience two types of flakes.
One, you have the flake that you number closed but have never hung out with. I’m sure we’ve all number closed a girl but then when we text them, they never text back. Or you text them to try to set up a day 2 only to have her come up with some lame excuse. This is very common and happens all the time. Typically, I will give a girl two chances before I delete her number.
If I am texting a girl for the very first time after getting her number and she doesn’t respond, I will generally wait a few days and text her again. If I get no response, delete. NEXT!
If she responds, then I will try to schedule a day two at some point. If the girl is not interested, they will try to flake with some lame excuse. Same as above, I will wait a few days to reopen, and try to schedule a day two. If I cannot set something up on the second attempt, delete. NEXT! What I’ve noticed is that if a girl has high interest level, they will never flake, and if they do, they will typically try to reschedule for another time. Some girls are just busy, but if she wants to hang out with you, she’ll do whatever she can to make it happen.
To get a high response ratio, your initial text should be something intriguing that will entice a girl to text back. Then you can run text game to try to set up a day two. But as I have said above, if you do not have sufficient interest built from the original interaction, there is no good opening text that will generate a response. If there is some interest, then she will probably respond and hopefully your text game is tight enough that her interest level continues to grow as you text back and forth.
Second, you have the flakes that you’ve hung out with and then they flake on future dates. They flake because something went wrong. Maybe she realized that you actually had lower value than she originally perceived. Or maybe you did something to turn her off. There are a plethora of reasons, all of which are unique to each situation.
If a girl flakes after we’ve hung out a few times, I usually give them radio silence; meaning, that I will not text her for a whole week. I will not contact her or try to set something up. If she has not texted you in a week, delete. NEXT! The interest is just not there. If she has texted you during the week, just ignore it. If a week has passed and she is still texting you, then text back with something short and brief. Then ignore her again for a few days. Then I will text her with something like, “Let’s meet up for drinks tomorrow at 8pm at bar XYZ.” If she flakes or does not respond, delete. NEXT!
Ultimately, it comes down to this: if a girl has high interest level, she will not flake. Flaking is simply a symptom of poor game. Maybe you didn’t generate enough attraction, comfort or rapport. Maybe you came on too strong and now she has buyer’s remorse. Or you DLV’ed when you went on a date with her. Or sometimes, she is legitimately busy with life, it happens. The key is that you brush it off, and move on without letting it discourage you.
Notice that I used interest instead of attraction or comfort. The common belief is that if you do not have enough comfort she’ll flake. I think that’s always the case. If you hot and she’s attracted to you, she probably wouldn’t flake. So when I say interest level, it encompasses attraction, comfort and rapport, because all of those can play a role in a girl flaking (or not).[/QUOTE]
Holy shit Prodigy, this is exactly the answer I was hoping for. This really showed me the differences in ways he acts and ways a lot of the better puas I know act. I really do have some things I can point out to him now. Thanks dude
@Trax the age thing seems tough to me on a fundamental basis. I'll explain. He is very attracted to youth, he is no longer young therefore once his age comes up he feels less attractive. I've seen him backpeddle in sets or not know the right thing to say quite a few times. I don't think its his words I think it's this insecurity that leaks out and girls simply pick up on it. Where as I have never hidden my age and made fun of girls for being too young and always said things that made them mad at first but attracted to me. "Let's go to Chucky Cheese" "If you are a good girl I'll buy you some ice cream later" I've gamed 3 young girls since I've been in this. Two 19 year olds and one 23 year old. And to be honest their age was the least attractive thing about them. I don't know how to achieve the right mindset without changing what you attracted to. If that makes sense. My attitude never needed this adjusting because I prefer women in the 25 and up demographic.
- Guest
by Guest » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:06 am
[QUOTE=Ram;39112]Holy shit Prodigy, this is exactly the answer I was hoping for. This really showed me the differences in ways he acts and ways a lot of the better puas I know act. I really do have some things I can point out to him now. Thanks dude
@Trax the age thing seems tough to me on a fundamental basis. I'll explain. He is very attracted to youth, he is no longer young therefore once his age comes up he feels less attractive. I've seen him backpeddle in sets or not know the right thing to say quite a few times. I don't think its his words I think it's this insecurity that leaks out and girls simply pick up on it. Where as I have never hidden my age and made fun of girls for being too young and always said things that made them mad at first but attracted to me. "Let's go to Chucky Cheese" "If you are a good girl I'll buy you some ice cream later" I've gamed 3 young girls since I've been in this. Two 19 year olds and one 23 year old. And to be honest their age was the least attractive thing about them. I don't know how to achieve the right mindset without changing what you attracted to. If that makes sense. My attitude never needed this adjusting because I prefer women in the 25 and up demographic.[/QUOTE]
I think that's where your friend messes up. he subcomminicates his insecurities about his age and the girls can pick up on that. It's like failing a shit test. Women like alpha males and alpha males don't care if they're 30, 40 or 50 years old! Look at Hugh Hefner, George clooney, etc.
If you don't make it a big deal, then it won't be.
@Trax the age thing seems tough to me on a fundamental basis. I'll explain. He is very attracted to youth, he is no longer young therefore once his age comes up he feels less attractive. I've seen him backpeddle in sets or not know the right thing to say quite a few times. I don't think its his words I think it's this insecurity that leaks out and girls simply pick up on it. Where as I have never hidden my age and made fun of girls for being too young and always said things that made them mad at first but attracted to me. "Let's go to Chucky Cheese" "If you are a good girl I'll buy you some ice cream later" I've gamed 3 young girls since I've been in this. Two 19 year olds and one 23 year old. And to be honest their age was the least attractive thing about them. I don't know how to achieve the right mindset without changing what you attracted to. If that makes sense. My attitude never needed this adjusting because I prefer women in the 25 and up demographic.[/QUOTE]
I think that's where your friend messes up. he subcomminicates his insecurities about his age and the girls can pick up on that. It's like failing a shit test. Women like alpha males and alpha males don't care if they're 30, 40 or 50 years old! Look at Hugh Hefner, George clooney, etc.
If you don't make it a big deal, then it won't be.
- Guest
by Guest » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:28 am
Alcohol is a the biggest driver of flaking. Girl gets drunk, girl cuts loose, girl talks to guy, girl can't really remember guy the next day through the haze, girl flakes. Most flakes that I've run into were women that were super drunk, at least drunk enough for ME to make fun of them (and if you've ever partied with me you'll understand how funny that is).
Very rarely do I run into a girl that is moderately drunk OR sober that straight up flakes on me. It happens, but not terribly frequently.
As for your friend, yes, he subcommunicates his insecurities regarding his age. Limiting belief. Further, he's dealing with a demographic of women that are BUILT to fucking flake. The younger, and hotter, a girl is the more likely she is to flake because she has so many options lingering about. It's the nature of the beast. If you want to pull 19 year olds, then you're going to have to deal with the 19 year old menatality. This can be tough if you're 30ish and have a deeper understanding of life, friends, relationships, etc.
Very rarely do I run into a girl that is moderately drunk OR sober that straight up flakes on me. It happens, but not terribly frequently.
As for your friend, yes, he subcommunicates his insecurities regarding his age. Limiting belief. Further, he's dealing with a demographic of women that are BUILT to fucking flake. The younger, and hotter, a girl is the more likely she is to flake because she has so many options lingering about. It's the nature of the beast. If you want to pull 19 year olds, then you're going to have to deal with the 19 year old menatality. This can be tough if you're 30ish and have a deeper understanding of life, friends, relationships, etc.
- Guest
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