First Day Game* # Close

[Guest]

@Sizzle

How do you punish a girl via text? Radio silence. Period. Go silent for a while, then make her open you back up. If she doesn't, no worries hit her up in 2 weeks. If she does then you have a little more power because she's chasing you now. Either way, it establishes the idea that you're working with a take it or leave it menatality.

Also, she seems to be agreeing in principle to a date but flakes out when you offer a time and day. This is a bit of a problem in my opinion. Generally, when a girl wants to go out with you she'll move mountains to do so. I've had girls cancel plans, rearrange schedules, etc. just to meet up with me for a drink. This is what she should be doing.

The fact that she is not tells me that she doesn't have enough comfort OR doesn't want to say no. Why would she not say no? Because she knows she's going to have to see you again and doesn't want to feel awkward or like a bitch every time she sees you in person. This is why I don't ask out chicks that I see on a regular basis...unless they make it utlra clear that they want me to.

@PC/Prodigy

I think Prodigy is right. Our rules exist because they work. On the other hand, sometimes breaking them is the right thing to do given what you want and the circumstance/situtation. For example, one rule I routinely break is the no dinner without sex rule. 95% of the time, I know after about an hour or two with a girl that I'll either have sex with her or get the option to do so. If a girl is attractive, open to me, engaging, and chases me a little bit then I'm perfectly fine with dropping $20 on dinner. No biggie. I almost always end up fucking the ones I buy dinner for...every now and again I don't but in those cases I'm the one making the decision not to fuck her about half of the time, the other half of the time I'm just straight up blind sided. In which case, I shoot her a text like this: "Respect. Kudos for out playing the player, good luck..." That text has actually allowed me to revive a few of the ones I felt I lost. As you can see, even that text would be considered breaking the rules. Fuck it though, it works so I use it.

Anyways, sometimes breaking the rules is the best way to seduce a girl. If you're doing it right, she should be leery of you and your savvy and prowess around women. In that case, very often it takes an AFC/beta type move to tip her over the edge and get her to lower her guard.

The I think of it is like this. When it comes to girls, I know that I still have a lot of natural Beta tendencies. So, I always think about what I say and do before I do/say them. I ask myself, would the pre-community Bull Run do this? If the answer is yes, I then ask myself does the current Bull Run want to do this? If the answer is yes, then when I do it I do it without hesitant or apology. The key here is that even if the answer is yes I only allow myself to do/say it half of the time. So, there are times when I actively go aganist what I want. Understand that I only do this early on with the girl. As time passes, I've already established my Alphaness so I start to allow my more AFC/Beta side show more often. Women need to see that beta side from time to time, they just do. Women are incapable of being with a guy that is ALWAYS Alpha all the time. They simply don't have the confidence to stand up to a constant Alpha.

You could argue that doing things you don't want to do or not doing things you want to do is the definition of Beta. Generally, I agree with this statement. But, remember this is about perception. Remember, she has to perceive you to be Alpha as such, sometimes, what you want has to go out of the window in favor of being more generically Alpha. Sometimes you just have to deal with the idea that you're going to be and feel like an asshole from time to time. But, the payoff is worth it because she'll love you for not being some push over Beta all the fucking time.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Prodigy;38789]“Beta” males with attractive women is an entirely different topic of discussion. However, I will say this: it’s not about what you (or the outside world) view as alpha, it is what the female (his gf) views as alpha. Sure, there is a general consensus of what an alpha male is, but, as with any other gray definition, people interpret them differently. Who knows, maybe he possess many qualities that she defines as alpha, while most perceive them as beta. Or, maybe she is tired of dating alpha males who treat her like crap and cheat on her and is looking for a beta provider. Often times, assumptions made when you only have a snapshot into one’s relationship is inaccurate.

Ultimately it comes down to one thing, female interest. If she likes you and is interested, you can be beta and get away with it. Why? Because she likes you. She is willing to overlook a few missteps and flaws because the overall package is still a good one, nonetheless. Just as how some men will (still) date a girl, even though she doesn’t have perfect skin, nails, hair, style, etc...

[Take note of a caveat though, if you are beta too often, then she’ll start thinking of you as one, and we all know how that turns out][/QUOTE]

Sorry about the slight thread hijack, but I agree with this.

On a low level, a guy can use beta techniques and get (and presumably keep) a hot girl. That is, he can pay her compliments, ask her out, pay for dinner, and be super nice, and if the girl is interested then she will date him. But unless she is using him or otherwise emotionally screwed up, she probably sees alpha qualities in him on a higher level.

On the high level, a meta level, he may be alpha because he has integrity and sticks to his principles. He probably has a higher purpose like being driven in his career or focused on helping people. He may let her get away with her silly bullshit, but he puts his foot down when it's important. He may demonstrate that he's a good provider and protector by earning a steady paycheck, being responsible with finances, knowing how to fix things, etc. On that meta level, he's not being beta at all.

Where this seemingly beta male can go wrong is by sacrificing his principles or his higher purpose to make his woman happy, thus becoming truly beta. That's where she will lose attraction for him.

On the topic of making a date, Juggler says to ask what her schedule is like before making a date. It may seem beta to conform to her schedule, but it's much less beta than suggesting a time only to suggest a different time if she's busy and then suggest a third time and so on. If my schedule is really tight, I'll tell a woman when I'm free; otherwise, I'll say something like, "I want to get together for a drink. What's your week like?"

[Guest]

There are no rules to the game regarding the words you use. The only thing that matters is your underlying attitude. If she senses you are willing to walk at a moments notice into the arms of another little hard-body then she will stick around. If she thinks you don't have options she probably won't. The words used to communicate are almost meaningless. Anything can be said, no matter how beta, and it can work. On the flip - anything can be said, no matter how seemingly alpha, and it not work.

Your attitude determines ultimate success. Not the words you choose to communicate with. One guy can say one thing and have success, another guy can say the opposite and have success.

I routinely say these words "you are so beautiful I would do anything for you. Can I clean your house for you?". Now it is quite obvious to the girl that I am not serious. What is even more obvious is that I find that type of behavior appalling and would never act in that manner. She knows that now. I never said it, I joked around, and she senses the attitude.

Everyone is completely wrong when they talk about little hard-bodies with beta boyfriends. Their boyfriends are alpha and I will prove it. The minute you see the guy you are jealous of him and complaining and/or wondering what he did right. If you see a guy stumbling down the street with his head and shoulders bent forward, not making eye contact you are not jealous of him. Because he is a beta and he is beneath your jealousy. Thus, the guy with the little hard-body on his arm is clearly alpha. Even if he walked up to her and said "I think you're beautiful, can I buy you a drink?" he had the nutsack to approach when everyone else is whining about the hard-body with the beta-boyfriend. A guy with the hot girlfriend vs. the guy alone contemptuously eyeing him - the guy with the hard-body wins the alpha contest.

I will go one step further - the act of pointing out a hard-body with a "beta" boyfriend is a very beta act. A contemptuously jealous, petty act. It is on par with a guy saying "she's out of your league". If a guy were to say that I would know instantly that he believes himself to be inferior and assumes his reality to be the reality of everyone he comes in contact with. It's unfathomable to him to get a great looking girl and he projects that reality. Be happy for the dude with the hard-body. If you can steal the hard-body while he is in the john then you win the alpha contest.

- Just because a guy does not have a strong jaw, rippling muscles, shining white teeth, and insane height does not mean he isn't alpha. Imagine a short, dumpy, ugly guy with a hottie on his arm. That guy has some huge confidence and balls of steel.

[Guest]

Just an Update: She FINALLY text me back.

I sent her on Sunday at 1 PM "I got wed at 7:30 or Fri at 7:30, which one works best?"

She sent me a text on Monday at 5 PM - " wed at 8? :)"

I didn't respond until Tuesday morning (today)