Telling them the truth.

[Guest]

Its late and I should be sleeping, but something has been on my mind lately. I feel very beta when it comes to discussing what I'm looking for (during the initial stages of comfort) with a chic. What I want seems unrealistic to most chics and so in order to avoid losing the chic, Ive never really suggested the openess and casualness that I crave from seeing multiple women at the same time. Rather, I always just go thru the motions and date multiple chics at a time but would not admit that I am seeing more than one for fear of loosing the girls.

I've been peering into this and Ive discovered I am very outcome dependant. What I want is to basically have a harem of hot chics that are all cool and maybe even hang out with each other when I'm not around. Obvious there would be frequent 3 somes and such. This is what I want, at least for now. Ive been thinking about how to frame this in order for it to actually work and also Ive been wondering whether or not it is possible to turn a conservative girl into "this" type of girl.

So my issue right off the bat, is when I'm first building comfort and the mention of casual relationship pops up... It seems to be a RED flag in their eyes.

For those of you who may have experience here... Please lend your suggestions.

[Guest]

I think it was Lion that once said to me "How about trying to be honest?" If they are going to walk because they don't want to be part of your "Harem" then they aren't the women you want. BLUF.

I've heard different advice on how to frame this, but the majority of it is to be up front about it during your initial encounter with the woman. If you try and bring it up with her later, especially after you have f-closed, then she will feel like you were not honest with her to begin with and you will definitely lose her.

As far as it seeming to be a red flag to you, that's your issue, not hers. Remember you are the rock, you are the unmovable center. She can rage all around you but you will not move. Be up front and transparent about seeing other women. Let her rage. If you lose her then......, NEXT!

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Carnal;38614]Its late and I should be sleeping, but something has been on my mind lately. I feel very beta when it comes to discussing what I'm looking for (during the initial stages of comfort) with a chic. What I want seems unrealistic to most chics and so in order to avoid losing the chic, Ive never really suggested the openess and casualness that I crave from seeing multiple women at the same time. Rather, I always just go thru the motions and date multiple chics at a time but would not admit that I am seeing more than one for fear of loosing the girls.

I've been peering into this and Ive discovered I am very outcome dependant. What I want is to basically have a harem of hot chics that are all cool and maybe even hang out with each other when I'm not around. Obvious there would be frequent 3 somes and such. This is what I want, at least for now. Ive been thinking about how to frame this in order for it to actually work and also Ive been wondering whether or not it is possible to turn a conservative girl into "this" type of girl.

So my issue right off the bat, is when I'm first building comfort and the mention of casual relationship pops up... It seems to be a RED flag in their eyes.

For those of you who may have experience here... Please lend your suggestions.[/QUOTE]


The best way to deal with the issue of casual relationships is to say something like this:

"I think it's silly that we spend so much time putting labels on everything. I enjoy your company, you enjoy mine, let's leave it there and see where things go."

I've never had a woman complain or put up resistence after I used that line. The key is to follow it up with your actions. Don't ever see her more than 2 - 3 nights a week. Give her only one day on the weekend AND don't be afraid to use Sunday as that day...it is on the weekend after all. Don't call her, don't text her all the time, don't talk to her every day...so don't exchange work emails because she'll hit you up ALL DAY, EVERY DAY. Sometimes, just straight up ignore her for a few days.

Telling them straight up that you're fucking other girls is fine and if done right will be OK. But, women KNOW. They're testing your answer. I've always preferred the read between the lines and look at how I act towards you and you'll KNOW exactly what I'm doing when you're not around. I've found it best to allude to being a player than to state that you are. Let her rationalize your behavior when she's not around. Don't just give her the answer.

You can turn a conservative girl into something more dynamic in the sack. It takes time and comfort, but it can be done. The problem is that with more open sexual encounters comes a requirement, on her part, for more closed relationships. In other words, she can grow to experiment with other women...she just needs to KNOW that you're her man.

I would advise against having your women interact with each other. They'll talk about you and that will not end well for any one. Fuck, even women that are engaged in polygamous relationships with one man don't always want to be around each other. Watch some reality TV shows about that kind of shit and you'll see what I mean.

Understand that 99.238676% of hot, cool chicks (which are so freaking rare it's not even funny) will not stay in a harem for long. There are plenty of men with status as high, or higher, than you that she can easily be with...who will mostly likely be thrilled to commit to her fully. My experience has shown that the hotter the girl, the less patience she has for lack of committment on your part...unless you're working with a girl with Ugly Duckingly Syndrome (but they have other issues that are just as much of a pain in the ass).

I always loved having harems. But, they're continually evolving. You build it up to 2 - 3 'active' girls (these are the ones you're fucking and seeing regularly) and you keep 1 - 2 'dormant' girls on the hook (these are ones you rarely see but still text/email/talk with on occasion to keep the thread alive). Eventually, your 'active' girls will leave or you'll blow them out. Then, you replace them with a dormant girl and find someone to replace her as a dormant girl. You see how much work this requires? It's a huge pain in the ass. And, quite frankly, requires that you are secretive about your life and what you do when she's not around. Think about how much time one women that you see regularly requires from you...extrapolate that over 3 - 5 women. It will become your life man.

You can tell them what you're up to, usually it's implied, but understand that most women today will saddle up with other men while you're plowing through your harem. Keep that in mind too. She will not be faithful. Instead, she'll stick around until the highest value/status man in her harem commits. If none do, then she'll find others. For a guy that claims to be outcome dependent, I would say that finding out one of your harem hottie's is fucking around would be pretty damaging.

You want a harem of super hot chicks that fuck each other and you and stay faithful to you? Become a rock star or famously rich or an awesome athlete.

Otherwise understand and be okay with the fact that your harem will come and go. Things will be super casual. Yes, you can set up threesomes but they're not going to be as common an occurance as you would think or want. And, you'll need to be fine with women coming in and out of your life without feeling as if they're rejecting you when they walk.

[Guest]

I remember this is exactly what I wanted as well. Style wrote some stuff about this that I wish I could find cause he probably worded things better than I could but here is the jist of it.

Have a stronger sense of reality than her - Make her exist in your reality. In your reality, you date multiple women, period. If she doesn't like it, she does not get to see you. It's all about positioning yourself like you are the prize. This is the lifestyle you have. Always be willing to walk away and make sure she knows it is to hang out other women. You will not even have to say these women are willing to do things for you that she isn't. Her imagination will fill in the blanks.

Threaten her with the friendzone - When they don't give you what you want tell her that you are just friends. That way she can see all the other women in your life. It also seems like a demotion to her. She wants the attention you are giving to the women you objectify. I have blatently told women I am sleeping with that I am not boyfriend material.

Basically act like a hot chick. You always have multiple options and you don't decide until something fun comes up. I have had multiple sex partners for quite a while now, but no 3-somes. You are on your own there. and please write field reports about it when it happens.

[Guest]

Everything I write below is assuming you are a super high value, has your shit down, kind of guy. I just don't see someone without their shit together building a harem. Unless of course the harem is full of fat ass degenerate nasties.

Casual relationships rarely end up being Casual. Often times if you are a higher value guy, the girl will end up falling for you. Even if it is just about sex, even if you told her up front you have no interest in a serious relationship. When girls know you have other options, are seeing other women, are fucking other women, they grow even more attached to wanting to be with you.

If you truly want to build a harem be ready for rejection. Be ready for girls coming and going from you life on a whim. Many girls can not handle the fact that you flaunt other girls in front of them. Even if the other girls aren't around some girls just can't handle non-monogamous relationships. The girls in your harem will and when I say will I mean 99% will most likely fuck other guys when you are not around. Can you handle this fact?

Some of the girls in your harem will be girls that you just fuck, as that is all they want. They don't want to go out with you they just want you to come over on occasion. These are the girls who are you best bet for a threesome to take place. They might already be bi or are at least curious. Even these girls will eventually demand more of your time though and want to do various things with you. Like I said you are a high value guy why wouldn't they eventually demand more.

In the old days when I actually had the ability to meet and sex women here is what I would always say before I fucked a girl. This is of course assuming it wasn't an SNL.

I was in a different mindset back then and had a couple rules for myself. One rule was I would never tell a lie to a girl. So if she would ask me a serious question I would often reply with listen, I don't lie. If you ask me a question realize you might not like what you hear. They would test this a few times and then often never ask me any kind of question that would upset them. So for example they would stop asking if I was fucking other girls, as they knew the answer would hurt them.

(In order for this to work you have to be honest with everything. If you are ever caught in a lie, even just one single time, this will backfire on you.) (This is pretty easy though if you are already a very honest person.)(This also builds an INSANE amount of attraction with a girl when they realize you are serious about not lying. Girls are so refreshed with your honesty as just about everyone else they have ever crossed lied to them.)

Another rule I had was I would be upfront with the girl that I had no interest in a relationship. I truly had no interest as I was just coming out of a relationship and wanted to fuck a million girls. It is amazing how strong these few words are "I have no interest in a relationship". *Start of Rant* Unfortunately these days women are so fucked in the head. They could live happily ever after with so many Beta guys who do want a relationship and would worship these girls. But no they have to be predisposed to like assholes. I still to this day don't know if I am an asshole in real life to girls, or if I just morphed into one because that is what they are attracted to. Fucking Game. *End Rant*

Anyways girls love these words. They love these early on as they feel like, you are a challenge, and girls just love it when the guy isn't smothering them. They know you aren't going to do stupid shit in the beginning of the relationship that betas do.

Ok I'm done for now. Read Bull Run's post again. I nodded my head to everything he said. It all sounded pretty much perfect. Get ready to have your A game turned on at all Times.

*One more side note*

If you want to keep a harem alive you have to constantly be meeting new girls. Your harem will be a constant revolving door. Try to keep one good FB who really does want sex from you, and try to keep one solid girl you can see yourself with, who wants a relationship with you. This is harder said than done but I think it is the best way to have a solid harem.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Carnal;38614]Its late and I should be sleeping, but something has been on my mind lately. I feel very beta when it comes to discussing what I'm looking for (during the initial stages of comfort) with a chic. [B]Don't discuss it. Memorize this phrase "I'm not looking for a relationship. I'm having too much fun".[/B] What I want seems unrealistic to most chics and so in order to avoid losing the chic, Ive never really suggested the openess and casualness that I crave from seeing multiple women at the same time. [B]You're projecting. It's unrealistic to you, therefore you assume it's unrealistic to them. 80% of girls fuck 20% of guys. That means all the girls are fucking the same guys. That means they're all sharing the same cock and they know it and love it. [/B]Rather, I always just go thru the motions and date multiple chics at a time but would not admit that I am seeing more than one for fear of loosing the girls. [B]Who gives a shit if you lose a girl. More than half the population is women. You're scared because you think you won't find another one, and the girls you see can sense this, and it is extremely unattractive. Let go of your fear. Live life on your terms, the way you want to. [/B]

I've been peering into this and Ive discovered I am very outcome dependant. [B]Forget about the outcome. Whatever it is. You will only do what you want to. If the girls isn't down then she is gone. [/B]What I want is to basically have a harem of hot chics that are all cool and maybe even hang out with each other when I'm not around. [B]You absolutely do not want that. If you can't handle telling one girl you are seeing others, you can't handle multiples. [/B]Obvious there would be frequent 3 somes and such. This is what I want, at least for now. Ive been thinking about how to frame this in order for it to actually work and also Ive been wondering whether or not it is possible to turn a conservative girl into "this" type of girl. [B]Grow some gigantic balls of steel. You are nowhere near ready for that. But if that's what you want then fucking go after it with a vengeance. [/B]

So my issue right off the bat, is when I'm first building comfort and the mention of casual relationship pops up... It seems to be a RED flag in their eyes. [B]Say what you want like a man and with extreme confidence and tell me their attitude doesn't change. [/B]

For those of you who may have experience here... Please lend your suggestions.[/QUOTE]

[B]In bold.[/B]

[Guest]

Thanks for all the good comments guys, I refer to this board for help from time to time.

Traxxus, your advice is very obvious and common sense. I'm talking about the bigger picture, you know the actual part that involves game....

There are certainly going to be many different styles of game all wrapped up into one in order to make a harem work.

I Know, in order for a monogamous relationship to be successful, there has to be a good mixture of alpha and beta. You cant be ALL alpha or ALL beta. Some guys will never understand this and I pity them. You can be an asswhole and hold on to a chic but she will resent you...oh she will resent you... and probably end up cheating on you. I see it all the time. You can also supplicate and worship the toilet paper a chic wipes her ass with and keep her, but she will eventually seek something stronger, and the beta guy will probably not even know and if he does he may even be such a bitch he will allow it. (I know of a current case of the latter example)

I'm not a rockstar, I'm not rich, I'm not famous, I'm of average looks, and my dick is shaped about like that of a light switch... So maybe this isnt for me! :eek:

So who here has actually managed a harem before?

I would REALLY like to pick the brains of individuals who have had [I]first hand experience[/I] with harems, not someone who has had some success with women and believes that is experience enough to start giving out advice.

It would also be beneficial for me to engage intellectually with someone experienced with this rather than someone who breaks down the way I wrote up my post without giving any firsthand knowledge.

The contents of my post is not a solid representation of who I am, it was simply a reflection of the state of mind that I was in at the time I wrote it. For those of you who may be reading into this statement please don't assume that I'm qualifying myself here, I'm merely discussing... there's a difference.

I stated that I am outcome dependant. I'm looking for a way to go about this so that I don't push away girls that I could've easily kept around if I gamed them differently.

I want to talk about outcome dependancy for a minute.
Name one guy that does not build temporary inflated ego and confidence from fucking hot chics and I will name 10 that do.
Isn't Everyone outcome dependant to a certain extent? Isn't that why some people choose to go to college, so they can be successful and increase their chances of attracting a high value mate.
Isn't that why people add or remove certain qualities, too or from our repertoire soo that we will appear more attractive.
If your style sucks, you strengthen it, because you are outcome dependant.
If you're fat, you workout to loose weight/gain muscle because you're outcome dependant.
Changing anything about yourself to become more attractive is changing who you are because you want to attract a chic and keep her, hence being outcome dependant.

Its easy enough to state: "if the girl isn't down, she is gone.'' This is not a helpful statement at all. Its an obvious statement. What I'm interested in is keeping the majority of them around.

The primary thing I am trying to work out is sustaining the same group. But I've never been able to manage that. When I've told girls in the past that I was seeing other chics, they either chase me hard core or they walk.


I have to be cool with the group constantly changing I realize. Theres no way I could ever in my right mind expect to keep around a handfull of hot chics that are just chilling waiting on me to fuck them whenever I want. Sure would be nice tho! :D

[Guest]

hello, Mates! It's been a moment.
Carnal: Game is and has been involving. In fact, the last two years I have been focusing on school and have practically lost grasp of what it is that girls are looking for. Not to brag by any means, but as a way to hopefully relate to the situation you spoke of "having had first-hand experience with a harem" I might offer to you this: Keep your sexual conquests out of your potential/ current harem's sight. Girls get jealous of each other and don't want to compete.(there is a depth to this and exceptions to every rule, mind you guys) For instance, if you are out and about with a girl you are fucking, and she begins to flirt and/or hang on another guy, how does this instantly, naturally make you feel? Setting all the "BE A ROCK AND FUCK YOUR EMOTIONS shit to the side, you probably feel hurt or offended on a deeper unconscious level which would lead you to the thought that you are too good for a chick to be hanging on to the arms of some guy who is nowhere as cool as you. From there, you direct your attention elsewhere. Right?

Girls feel the same way. I have been in certain situations where the rapport was right between two girls, and threesomes happened. One instance was I had a best friend(whom I fucked but kept it secret). This friend I introduced my "active" girls to, and they saw the opportunity to build rapport with her, as a way to get to me. Turns out My Best friend was a SUPER cool chick, had bisexual tendencies, and had a firm grasp on game herself.

I guess the moral here, in conglomeration with game advice I've heard from an external source, is that if the girls aren't in competition with each other, then there will be no hard feelings, theyre more likely to play ball... A girl won't sleep with a guy that has slept with a girl whom she deems lesser value. Kind of the way two guys who are cool with each other have nothing against double-teaming a female. I hate to end on that note, but it's largely the same principle.

*** note that my advice is given, not to be critiqued by beginners, but to be observed and critiqued by those operating within the realm of game mentioned by Carnal.

[Guest]

Carnal- you might watch a few episodes of "Girls Next Door". It was the show with Hugh Hefner and his 3 girlfriends. The "ultimate" man even experiences difficulty trying to pull this off.

What PC and BR had to say is right on the money.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Carnal]Traxxus, your advice is very obvious and common sense. I'm talking about the bigger picture, you know the actual part that involves game.... [/QUOTE]

You know, some of the best advice I have ever received involved a good dose of common sense. Don't knock it till you try it. ;)

Maybe it will help you to think of advice as a form of nostalgia. Giving it is like taking the past, fishing it from the disposal, painting over the ugly parts, and recycling it for more than it is worth.

P.S. Yes I've been listening to Baz again.