Political/religious discussions and Pick-up

[TheRussian]

I noticed that a lot of guys feel that they need to prove a political or religious point to women. Let me verbally abuse you for a moment, let me tell you that it is the dumbest thing to do in any situation. When I talk to girls about their relationships I notice that many of them complain about arguing with their boyfriends all the time over philosophy and the proper way to live life. If you feel like you need to prove something, you are lowering your value, and you are most definitely losing your frame.

Let’s say that you have been seeing this woman for a while and would like to have a discussion with her about politics or religion, even though I do not recommend it, I will give you some short guidelines which are effective in any argument with a woman, not necessarily political or religious in subjects:

1) Do not argue, EXPLORE instead. To explore means to understand the other persons perspective and accept it as different from yours but valid nonetheless.
2) Never speak in direct terms. Never use the word YOU. If you want to make a point, use the neutral passive language such as “People can”, and “Imagine a situation”. Using direct language in a political or religious discussion, or in any argument in this matter will only put the girl on the defense and make you lose your value. High value individuals know that they are right and do not need to argue to the death.
3) Understand that the point of an argument is to discover the fine points and opinions of others and to ultimately have both of you grow as people by understanding different perspectives.
4) Reinforce your understanding of their point by throwing in words like “interesting” or “fascinating” to make the other party feel comfortable in revealing and continuing to discuss their opinions on those sensitive subjects.

The main point to understand in arguments that the harder you try to stand your ground, the less value people see in you. The most effective mediators will never go on the offensive because they know that the most effective language is one of neutrality rich with facts.

-TheRussian

[Scoundrel]

I could not disagree more. What you suggest smacks of AFC. She’ll see that you’re only agreeing with her to get in her pants.

Her: So, do you believe in God?
Him: No.
Her: I do and it’s important to me.
Him: Well, I was talking about the Old Testament kind of God…

Give her your thoughts, if she disagrees and you have the chops to prove her wrong, do it. Then she comes of looking like a fool and needs to redeem herself.

Don’t get into a screaming match with her. Stay calm, tell her what you think. She’ll see that you know how to handle dispute and that IS a DHV.

[TheRussian]

First of all I’m not talking about religious discussions during pickup, as that is out of the question. I’m talking about having one of those discussion after you f-closed her and slept with her a few times after that. If you do it during pickup, just bringing up that subject will DLV you.

Also, I did not say that you should not give her your thoughts, as you absolutely should tell her what you think. My point was that you do not need to ARGUE your points as being correct, but simply present it to her in a neutral fashion. I find that I can have long and interesting discussions with women about those subject as long as I do not tip them over to the defensive side.

You said: “Don’t get into a screaming match with her. Stay calm, tell her what you think. She’ll see that you know how to handle dispute and that IS a DHV.”

That is exactly what I’m trying to bring across.

[Scoundrel]

Look dude, you bring up a lot of relationship BS and this forum is about PU. Take it to Oprah.

[TheRussian]

Sir, this forum is a group of likeminded individuals who help each other with women. I appreciate your input and response to my question. The subject of this post was to reinforce the point of not tipping girls to be defensive, thus enabling two people to have a comfortable conversation without confrontation. I met many guys who like to discuss subjects such as politics and religion with women they meet, and I gave some guidelines which make me be able to talk to them without creating an uncomfortable situation.

[Westfall]

I agree. I used to argue with women. Actually, this was merely a symptom of a greater problem--

I was trying to use reason & logic on a woman. I have finally realized this is pretty much worthless. It is far better to frame things in-line with her irrational beliefs.

For example (and I did this recently), a girl told me she would never have sex with someone without the commitment of a exclusive romantic relationship (Ugh!).

The old Westfall would have argued with her using logic. That WF wouldn't have gotten laid.

The new gPUA Westfall said something like this:

Yeah, I totally agree that it is important to care about the person you're expressing yourself physically with...otherwise what's the point? I mean I have no interest in having a "fuck-buddy", a girl that just uses me for her own sexual pleasure...but a "friend with benifits", who is a friend first...but because we're both mutually attracted & care deeply about pleasing one another, we have "benifits" that other friends do not, without the restrictions people place on each other in traditional relationships.

4 hours later, I had this girl offering to cook for me, and tell me she wanted to "feel me inside her".

I really am getting slightly-less-sucky at this. Woo Hoo!

Westfall

[TheAwakened]

First of all I’m not talking about religious discussions during pickup, as that is out of the question.

I don't know, it might be a funny opener. "Hi, I'd like to talk to you about Jesus!"

[MagicBalls]

Yeah, I have a "friend" that likes to bring up religious discussions with me. I took philosophy and law, so I can really argue, but I just tell her "everyone has their own way of relating to spiritual things." She doesn't seem to be satisfied with that answer and starts asking me specifics, at which point I tell her, "do we really have to have this discussion?" I just don't want to get into a logic argument with her and prefer to tell stories or get to know her a little better. I think she pretty much has her life centered around this thing, though, and she more or less gives the impression that getting into her religious frame is the only way to get into her "Pearly Gates".

[Vector]

Her: So, do you believe in God?
Him: No.
Her: I do and it’s important to me.
Him: Well, I was talking about the Old Testament kind of God…

I think the distinction is between being supplicating and weak versus being accepting. Being so weak in your beliefs that you simply follow hers is one of the worst things you can do. But being accepting of people who have different beliefs lets you remain comfortable with one another, while exploring an interesting subject and holding your ground.

Talk philosophy and religion if you want, but still I'd say you should avoid politics.

[Rhody]

You know how they say that the biggest sex organ in the human body is the brain? Some girls just get off on a guy who can hold a deep conversation, and they really enjoy showing off their own intelligence. Not all women are vapid whores. In fact, most of them are not. I would say that the best sex I've had was with the smartest women I know, and the worst sex was with the dumbest.

I know some of you guys, like TheRussian, are pretty young (compared to me anyway), college age. A college girl is just getting to the point where she is freeing herself in many ways. One of those ways is freeing the shackles on her mind. This is very liberating for her. I really think that taking her on an intellectual journey will give her an adrenaline spike that she will associate with you. But you have to do it in a way that challenges her, maintains a high value for you, and has the potential to escalate into a sexual context of course.

I found your advice to be excellent, TheRussian.