[QUOTE=maenad;37069]wasnt tryin to be rude, it was more of what i heard but people talk shit all the time so you shouldnt give a fuck.[/QUOTE]
Bull Run is a top-tier PUA, there is no question about that.
Dallas PUA
The Pickup Artist Playground
Luke Krogh top 7th PUA works with AFC adam
37 posts
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by Guest » Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:55 pm
From my own experience...
My bootcamp experience was a combine event with Cajun, Brad P, Badboy, and some other instructors. This was right when I was starting out.
Pros: Got to see 3 different styles of game and how they can all work when the "best" are using them. I am one of those people who believes you can learn from osmosis, not just by doing. Cajun, for example, runs a very normal "social" game similar to what I run a lot of the time lately. Just go in, talk, collect numbers and go on dates. Badboy is super direct. That game is all in the body language, so seeing it done succesfully over and over again in an instructional setting was valuable. I was running that for a while. Brad P is a little more wild and crazy, with C&F and crazy negs and stuff. That I don't use as well, but I remember his delivery and now I have a sense of what that should look like as well.
Watching these guys right when I was starting out, and talking to them and getting feedback on my approaches was most certainly helpful because is "imprinted" in me what a good pickup should look like when done 3 different ways.
Cons: Expensive. And a bootcamp is only one weekend. The lair is there for you every day. I felt it was worth it because I had quality instructors, and I was just starting out. Could I have got to where I am without this experience? Probably, but it sure did not hurt. The other thing is that some of the other instructors at this event were not that good. Kind of like some of these other "instructors" who nobody outside their home state or even city has really heard of. My feeling is that much of the value of these bootcamps is the "imprint" factor that comes from seeing and getting a clear vision in your mind of what a great pickup looks like. So if the instructor you're working with is unwilling or unable to provide this, what are you really paying for? In that case, I agree with BR that if it's just to have someone push you in to sets and spit out one or two words about your posture, keep your money.
My bootcamp experience was a combine event with Cajun, Brad P, Badboy, and some other instructors. This was right when I was starting out.
Pros: Got to see 3 different styles of game and how they can all work when the "best" are using them. I am one of those people who believes you can learn from osmosis, not just by doing. Cajun, for example, runs a very normal "social" game similar to what I run a lot of the time lately. Just go in, talk, collect numbers and go on dates. Badboy is super direct. That game is all in the body language, so seeing it done succesfully over and over again in an instructional setting was valuable. I was running that for a while. Brad P is a little more wild and crazy, with C&F and crazy negs and stuff. That I don't use as well, but I remember his delivery and now I have a sense of what that should look like as well.
Watching these guys right when I was starting out, and talking to them and getting feedback on my approaches was most certainly helpful because is "imprinted" in me what a good pickup should look like when done 3 different ways.
Cons: Expensive. And a bootcamp is only one weekend. The lair is there for you every day. I felt it was worth it because I had quality instructors, and I was just starting out. Could I have got to where I am without this experience? Probably, but it sure did not hurt. The other thing is that some of the other instructors at this event were not that good. Kind of like some of these other "instructors" who nobody outside their home state or even city has really heard of. My feeling is that much of the value of these bootcamps is the "imprint" factor that comes from seeing and getting a clear vision in your mind of what a great pickup looks like. So if the instructor you're working with is unwilling or unable to provide this, what are you really paying for? In that case, I agree with BR that if it's just to have someone push you in to sets and spit out one or two words about your posture, keep your money.
- Guest
by Guest » Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:28 pm
[QUOTE=Bull Run;37056]First off, you don't know me so you cannot love me. So drop that reframing shit right now. (Not to go on a rant, but you do that a lot with your language. I read your posts and can't help but think you're trying to game a forum of DUDES)[/QUOTE]
I think you may be giving too much credit to "reframing" here... That's the downside of game, give a guy some knowledge about social dynamics and then he's a pro at breaking down every interaction believing everyone has alterior motives. It's not normal to think like this, but it does give an inflated ego and the confidence to challenge everyone on their ideas/thought processes.
The reason why some of the guys who are good and also attended bootcamps is because they were/are HUNGRY. That's why they attended a bootcamp in the first place.. And then there are guys who think a bootcamp will instantly change their lives and they give up when they find out that a bootcamp is scratching the the tip of the giant iceburg. Just as there are guys who suck after a bootcamp there are guys who suck after joining a lair and never do anything to change their situation.
So enough of the generalizing, no one way is better than the other they are only just different methods of doing the same shit.
Alot of the good content on the boards and content spewing from the mouths of lair members in every mayor city comes from pickup companies.. The major pickup companies are like think tanks that walk, talk, eat, and breath social dynamics on a daily basis, you are a fool to think they have nothing to offer.
For example: The BP Oil spill... a small time plumber could find a way to plug the leak. The government forms a think tank with the top minds in the world to analyze and weed out all the b.s. and pick the best, most reliable method.
In essence if you ever read any material (i.e. David Deangelo, Mystery, RSD, etc...) then you are most likely building your methods off of someone elses patented theory and are rising to plagiarism.
I attended a bootcamp with Adam Lyons. It was great, I learned alot. I know my friends benefitted greatly as well. Did I have to attend a bootcamp? Whether I needed the bootcamp or not is not the point. I took a bootcamp because I can afford it. I went on a mini vacation and learned about some cool shit that changed my life.
You could also learn everything college has to offer by reading books and practicing and testing yourself. But how long would that take???
Have your ideas, thats cool, have your beliefs, thats fair. But why invest in stripping someone of their pride for their accomplishments regardless of how they arrived at the place they are at in their lives. Thats not cool.
I think you may be giving too much credit to "reframing" here... That's the downside of game, give a guy some knowledge about social dynamics and then he's a pro at breaking down every interaction believing everyone has alterior motives. It's not normal to think like this, but it does give an inflated ego and the confidence to challenge everyone on their ideas/thought processes.
The reason why some of the guys who are good and also attended bootcamps is because they were/are HUNGRY. That's why they attended a bootcamp in the first place.. And then there are guys who think a bootcamp will instantly change their lives and they give up when they find out that a bootcamp is scratching the the tip of the giant iceburg. Just as there are guys who suck after a bootcamp there are guys who suck after joining a lair and never do anything to change their situation.
So enough of the generalizing, no one way is better than the other they are only just different methods of doing the same shit.
Alot of the good content on the boards and content spewing from the mouths of lair members in every mayor city comes from pickup companies.. The major pickup companies are like think tanks that walk, talk, eat, and breath social dynamics on a daily basis, you are a fool to think they have nothing to offer.
For example: The BP Oil spill... a small time plumber could find a way to plug the leak. The government forms a think tank with the top minds in the world to analyze and weed out all the b.s. and pick the best, most reliable method.
In essence if you ever read any material (i.e. David Deangelo, Mystery, RSD, etc...) then you are most likely building your methods off of someone elses patented theory and are rising to plagiarism.
I attended a bootcamp with Adam Lyons. It was great, I learned alot. I know my friends benefitted greatly as well. Did I have to attend a bootcamp? Whether I needed the bootcamp or not is not the point. I took a bootcamp because I can afford it. I went on a mini vacation and learned about some cool shit that changed my life.
You could also learn everything college has to offer by reading books and practicing and testing yourself. But how long would that take???
Have your ideas, thats cool, have your beliefs, thats fair. But why invest in stripping someone of their pride for their accomplishments regardless of how they arrived at the place they are at in their lives. Thats not cool.
- Guest
by Guest » Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:00 pm
[QUOTE=Carnal;37168] The reason why some of the guys who are good and also attended bootcamps is because they were/are HUNGRY....
I attended a bootcamp with Adam Lyons. It was great, I learned alot. I know my friends benefitted greatly as well.[/QUOTE]
Is that supposed to mean you think YOU are good? Dude, most of us on this board know each other and hang out on occasion. Nobody has even met you. And your friends? Your friend Ram was supposed to meet me in Uptown one night because out of good faith I decided to extend my hand to you guys and meet some people I hadn't met. He chickened out and never showed up.
[QUOTE=Carnal;37168]I think you may be giving too much credit to "reframing" here... That's the downside of game, give a guy some knowledge about social dynamics and then he's a pro at breaking down every interaction believing everyone has alterior motives. It's not normal to think like this, but it does give an inflated ego and the confidence to challenge everyone on their ideas/thought processes. [/QUOTE]
So, you are saying that BullRun has "some knowledge" about social dynamics after about 3 years in the community? "It's not normal to think like this..."
Who the fuck made you judge and jury? Like I said, you're just a flaming keyboard jockey as far as 90% of this lair is concerned. And these accusations are laughable to those of us who have actually met the guy.
[QUOTE=Carnal;37168] So enough of the generalizing, no one way is better than the other they are only just different methods of doing the same shit.[/QUOTE]
You come on here and bark out orders to guys who are way senior to you, who have 10x the game, 10x the knowledge, and have contributed 10x what you have, and expect to be taken seriously or to be able to stick around for very long you've got another thing coming.
[QUOTE=Carnal;37168]Alot of the good content on the boards and content spewing from the mouths of lair members in every mayor city comes from pickup companies.. The major pickup companies are like think tanks that walk, talk, eat, and breath social dynamics on a daily basis, you are a fool to think they have nothing to offer. [/QUOTE]
Now you are calling him a fool. And what the hell does this have to do with anything? Who ever said that pickup companies have nothing to offer? Then you drone on about the BP spill, who gives a fuck, you keyboard jockying loser.
I attended a bootcamp with Adam Lyons. It was great, I learned alot. I know my friends benefitted greatly as well.[/QUOTE]
Is that supposed to mean you think YOU are good? Dude, most of us on this board know each other and hang out on occasion. Nobody has even met you. And your friends? Your friend Ram was supposed to meet me in Uptown one night because out of good faith I decided to extend my hand to you guys and meet some people I hadn't met. He chickened out and never showed up.
[QUOTE=Carnal;37168]I think you may be giving too much credit to "reframing" here... That's the downside of game, give a guy some knowledge about social dynamics and then he's a pro at breaking down every interaction believing everyone has alterior motives. It's not normal to think like this, but it does give an inflated ego and the confidence to challenge everyone on their ideas/thought processes. [/QUOTE]
So, you are saying that BullRun has "some knowledge" about social dynamics after about 3 years in the community? "It's not normal to think like this..."
Who the fuck made you judge and jury? Like I said, you're just a flaming keyboard jockey as far as 90% of this lair is concerned. And these accusations are laughable to those of us who have actually met the guy.
[QUOTE=Carnal;37168] So enough of the generalizing, no one way is better than the other they are only just different methods of doing the same shit.[/QUOTE]
You come on here and bark out orders to guys who are way senior to you, who have 10x the game, 10x the knowledge, and have contributed 10x what you have, and expect to be taken seriously or to be able to stick around for very long you've got another thing coming.
[QUOTE=Carnal;37168]Alot of the good content on the boards and content spewing from the mouths of lair members in every mayor city comes from pickup companies.. The major pickup companies are like think tanks that walk, talk, eat, and breath social dynamics on a daily basis, you are a fool to think they have nothing to offer. [/QUOTE]
Now you are calling him a fool. And what the hell does this have to do with anything? Who ever said that pickup companies have nothing to offer? Then you drone on about the BP spill, who gives a fuck, you keyboard jockying loser.
- Guest
by Guest » Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:29 pm
[QUOTE=Carnal;37168]I think you may be giving too much credit to "reframing" here... That's the downside of game, give a guy some knowledge about social dynamics and then he's a pro at breaking down every interaction believing everyone has alterior motives. It's not normal to think like this, but it does give an inflated ego and the confidence to challenge everyone on their ideas/thought processes.
The reason why some of the guys who are good and also attended bootcamps is because they were/are HUNGRY. That's why they attended a bootcamp in the first place.. And then there are guys who think a bootcamp will instantly change their lives and they give up when they find out that a bootcamp is scratching the the tip of the giant iceburg. Just as there are guys who suck after a bootcamp there are guys who suck after joining a lair and never do anything to change their situation.
So enough of the generalizing, no one way is better than the other they are only just different methods of doing the same shit.
Alot of the good content on the boards and content spewing from the mouths of lair members in every mayor city comes from pickup companies.. The major pickup companies are like think tanks that walk, talk, eat, and breath social dynamics on a daily basis, you are a fool to think they have nothing to offer.
For example: The BP Oil spill... a small time plumber could find a way to plug the leak. The government forms a think tank with the top minds in the world to analyze and weed out all the b.s. and pick the best, most reliable method.
In essence if you ever read any material (i.e. David Deangelo, Mystery, RSD, etc...) then you are most likely building your methods off of someone elses patented theory and are rising to plagiarism.
I attended a bootcamp with Adam Lyons. It was great, I learned alot. I know my friends benefitted greatly as well. Did I have to attend a bootcamp? Whether I needed the bootcamp or not is not the point. I took a bootcamp because I can afford it. I went on a mini vacation and learned about some cool shit that changed my life.
You could also learn everything college has to offer by reading books and practicing and testing yourself. But how long would that take???
Have your ideas, thats cool, have your beliefs, thats fair. But why invest in stripping someone of their pride for their accomplishments regardless of how they arrived at the place they are at in their lives. Thats not cool.[/QUOTE]
You're so wise, you're like a miniature Budda covered in hair.
I never said that bootcamps were not valuable. I simply said that if you want to achieve success, you have to work and grind and fight for that success. Pick-up is about work. I go to the gym all the time. And, when I was in the thick of learning how to run my Game and get comfortable in this new world, I viewed a bar or club or party as the social gym. It was where I was going to go and learn and exercise and grow. Bootcamp or no bootcamp, it still takes a ton of work to get to where you want (and, really good PUAs never ever get to where they want...that's what makes them so good, they keep grinding).
But, bootcamps are sold as the answer. That's how they're marketed and that's the wrong thing to do. Especially to the group of guys that are so desperate to get women that they'll do just about anything, or pay just about anything, to get them.
Now, do they have a benefit? Absolutely they do.
[QUOTE=Carnal;37168]It's not normal to think like this, but it does give an inflated ego and the confidence to challenge everyone on their ideas/thought processes.[/QUOTE]
Inflated ego? Maybe, but how would you know? Only those with inflated egos are intimdated by others that they believe to possess the same malady. As for confidence, yes I have it and I have opinions and I'm blessed enough to be able to articulate them in a way that allows others to understand my perspective.
Alas, you do not seem to understand my perspective. Maybe if we had ever met in person that would be different.
If you want to challenge my knowledge, then fine. I don't care. If you want to challenge my abilities, then fine. You have every right to your opinion. BUT, any one with half a brain can read what I've posted over the past THREE years and see that I know what I'm talking about. And, it's not something I stole from a blog or book...this is Bull Run original shit here. Lessons learned in the trenches. Lessons learned during day game, night game, online game, day2s, SNLs, and COUNTLESS blow outs and rejections.
Have your ideas, that's cool, have your beliefs, that's fair. But why invest in attempting to strip someone of their pride by taking the position of challenging said person's, whom you've never met before, abilities and knowledge? That's not cool.
The reason why some of the guys who are good and also attended bootcamps is because they were/are HUNGRY. That's why they attended a bootcamp in the first place.. And then there are guys who think a bootcamp will instantly change their lives and they give up when they find out that a bootcamp is scratching the the tip of the giant iceburg. Just as there are guys who suck after a bootcamp there are guys who suck after joining a lair and never do anything to change their situation.
So enough of the generalizing, no one way is better than the other they are only just different methods of doing the same shit.
Alot of the good content on the boards and content spewing from the mouths of lair members in every mayor city comes from pickup companies.. The major pickup companies are like think tanks that walk, talk, eat, and breath social dynamics on a daily basis, you are a fool to think they have nothing to offer.
For example: The BP Oil spill... a small time plumber could find a way to plug the leak. The government forms a think tank with the top minds in the world to analyze and weed out all the b.s. and pick the best, most reliable method.
In essence if you ever read any material (i.e. David Deangelo, Mystery, RSD, etc...) then you are most likely building your methods off of someone elses patented theory and are rising to plagiarism.
I attended a bootcamp with Adam Lyons. It was great, I learned alot. I know my friends benefitted greatly as well. Did I have to attend a bootcamp? Whether I needed the bootcamp or not is not the point. I took a bootcamp because I can afford it. I went on a mini vacation and learned about some cool shit that changed my life.
You could also learn everything college has to offer by reading books and practicing and testing yourself. But how long would that take???
Have your ideas, thats cool, have your beliefs, thats fair. But why invest in stripping someone of their pride for their accomplishments regardless of how they arrived at the place they are at in their lives. Thats not cool.[/QUOTE]
You're so wise, you're like a miniature Budda covered in hair.
I never said that bootcamps were not valuable. I simply said that if you want to achieve success, you have to work and grind and fight for that success. Pick-up is about work. I go to the gym all the time. And, when I was in the thick of learning how to run my Game and get comfortable in this new world, I viewed a bar or club or party as the social gym. It was where I was going to go and learn and exercise and grow. Bootcamp or no bootcamp, it still takes a ton of work to get to where you want (and, really good PUAs never ever get to where they want...that's what makes them so good, they keep grinding).
But, bootcamps are sold as the answer. That's how they're marketed and that's the wrong thing to do. Especially to the group of guys that are so desperate to get women that they'll do just about anything, or pay just about anything, to get them.
Now, do they have a benefit? Absolutely they do.
[QUOTE=Carnal;37168]It's not normal to think like this, but it does give an inflated ego and the confidence to challenge everyone on their ideas/thought processes.[/QUOTE]
Inflated ego? Maybe, but how would you know? Only those with inflated egos are intimdated by others that they believe to possess the same malady. As for confidence, yes I have it and I have opinions and I'm blessed enough to be able to articulate them in a way that allows others to understand my perspective.
Alas, you do not seem to understand my perspective. Maybe if we had ever met in person that would be different.
If you want to challenge my knowledge, then fine. I don't care. If you want to challenge my abilities, then fine. You have every right to your opinion. BUT, any one with half a brain can read what I've posted over the past THREE years and see that I know what I'm talking about. And, it's not something I stole from a blog or book...this is Bull Run original shit here. Lessons learned in the trenches. Lessons learned during day game, night game, online game, day2s, SNLs, and COUNTLESS blow outs and rejections.
Have your ideas, that's cool, have your beliefs, that's fair. But why invest in attempting to strip someone of their pride by taking the position of challenging said person's, whom you've never met before, abilities and knowledge? That's not cool.
- Guest
by Guest » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:02 am
[QUOTE=grimm1111;37169]Is that supposed to mean you think YOU are good? Dude, most of us on this board know each other and hang out on occasion. Nobody has even met you. And your friends? Your friend Ram was supposed to meet me in Uptown one night because out of good faith I decided to extend my hand to you guys and meet some people I hadn't met. He chickened out and never showed up.[/QUOTE]
I just want to first of all stand up for carnal and say he is good. I hope me saying that doesn't throw me right into this and get my credibility attacked as well. I think this thread went in the wrong direction. If anyone feels like your perspective is being attacked maybe you should be looking at yourself first. In good faith we are all lending our opinions to people on here to help each other, not shoot people down or make ourselves look superior to anyone. That is not and should not be the point to any of this.
@Grimm - To be honest a good friend of mine was going through a tough breakup at the time and needed someone to to talk to and be there for him. I didn't get to get out until way later that night then I wanted to and told you I would be there by and there was a line wrapped around the door. Plus I wasn't even sure if you guys were still there. I had to put aside something I wanted to do for a good friend. I apologized for flaking that night but will do it again. I am sorry bro. I hope that good faith is still there and you would like to go out sarging sometime. I am still looking forward to meeting and seeing you in action. If you think I chickened out... Well I guess I am the one here with someting to prove. I have no problem with earning respect first.
I just want to first of all stand up for carnal and say he is good. I hope me saying that doesn't throw me right into this and get my credibility attacked as well. I think this thread went in the wrong direction. If anyone feels like your perspective is being attacked maybe you should be looking at yourself first. In good faith we are all lending our opinions to people on here to help each other, not shoot people down or make ourselves look superior to anyone. That is not and should not be the point to any of this.
@Grimm - To be honest a good friend of mine was going through a tough breakup at the time and needed someone to to talk to and be there for him. I didn't get to get out until way later that night then I wanted to and told you I would be there by and there was a line wrapped around the door. Plus I wasn't even sure if you guys were still there. I had to put aside something I wanted to do for a good friend. I apologized for flaking that night but will do it again. I am sorry bro. I hope that good faith is still there and you would like to go out sarging sometime. I am still looking forward to meeting and seeing you in action. If you think I chickened out... Well I guess I am the one here with someting to prove. I have no problem with earning respect first.
- Guest
by Guest » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:45 am
[QUOTE=Ram;37177]I just want to first of all stand up for carnal and say he is good. I hope me saying that doesn't throw me right into this and get my credibility attacked as well. I think this thread went in the wrong direction. If anyone feels like your perspective is being attacked maybe you should be looking at yourself first. In good faith we are all lending our opinions to people on here to help each other, not shoot people down or make ourselves look superior to anyone. That is not and should not be the point to any of this.
@Grimm - To be honest a good friend of mine was going through a tough breakup at the time and needed someone to to talk to and be there for him. I didn't get to get out until way later that night then I wanted to and told you I would be there by and there was a line wrapped around the door. Plus I wasn't even sure if you guys were still there. I had to put aside something I wanted to do for a good friend. I apologized for flaking that night but will do it again. I am sorry bro. I hope that good faith is still there and you would like to go out sarging sometime. I am still looking forward to meeting and seeing you in action. If you think I chickened out... Well I guess I am the one here with someting to prove. I have no problem with earning respect first.[/QUOTE]
Ram, we've met in person and I can honestly say that you've got your shit together man. You're a cool guy in my book. You've always been respectful and understand the implied code of the Community.
The real issue here isn't whether any one else is good or not. The truth is that there are guys that I've met over the years that could easily run laps around me...there are guys that I can run laps around. That's the way of the world. Some of us are just better than others. The important thing to remember is that we are all BETTER than we used to be...that's what really matters. Under this context, we're all successful.
Who cares if so and so is good or not? It's not important. That's all driven by opinion anyways. Some of the best PUAs I've known I've never seen them close, but I KNOW they do. You can tell by how they talk, act, carry themselves, and by the seemingly endless string of women they cart around with them.
It's about this:
[QUOTE=grimm1111;37169]You come on here and bark out orders to guys who are way senior to you, who have...contributed 10x what you have, and expect to be taken seriously[/QUOTE]
It's clear that someone that rolls into a new Community and starts challenging the veterans of said Community without ever having made a name for themselves or even having ever met the person they're attacking lacks several things including respect, maturity, and social intelligence.
When I first came into the Community over 3 years ago, I was incredibly respectful towards the elders...still am. There are guys that have been here before me and I defer to them and their experience and knowledge. The reality is that you only really learn how to become better at this over time and through experience. There are guys that have more experience than I so I treat(ed) them with the respect they deserve.
Having said that, do I always agree with the guys that have been here longer than me? Nope. It's not about agreement. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but they are not entitled to think that the hierarchy of a social group that they just became a part of doesn't apply to them.
@Grimm - To be honest a good friend of mine was going through a tough breakup at the time and needed someone to to talk to and be there for him. I didn't get to get out until way later that night then I wanted to and told you I would be there by and there was a line wrapped around the door. Plus I wasn't even sure if you guys were still there. I had to put aside something I wanted to do for a good friend. I apologized for flaking that night but will do it again. I am sorry bro. I hope that good faith is still there and you would like to go out sarging sometime. I am still looking forward to meeting and seeing you in action. If you think I chickened out... Well I guess I am the one here with someting to prove. I have no problem with earning respect first.[/QUOTE]
Ram, we've met in person and I can honestly say that you've got your shit together man. You're a cool guy in my book. You've always been respectful and understand the implied code of the Community.
The real issue here isn't whether any one else is good or not. The truth is that there are guys that I've met over the years that could easily run laps around me...there are guys that I can run laps around. That's the way of the world. Some of us are just better than others. The important thing to remember is that we are all BETTER than we used to be...that's what really matters. Under this context, we're all successful.
Who cares if so and so is good or not? It's not important. That's all driven by opinion anyways. Some of the best PUAs I've known I've never seen them close, but I KNOW they do. You can tell by how they talk, act, carry themselves, and by the seemingly endless string of women they cart around with them.
It's about this:
[QUOTE=grimm1111;37169]You come on here and bark out orders to guys who are way senior to you, who have...contributed 10x what you have, and expect to be taken seriously[/QUOTE]
It's clear that someone that rolls into a new Community and starts challenging the veterans of said Community without ever having made a name for themselves or even having ever met the person they're attacking lacks several things including respect, maturity, and social intelligence.
When I first came into the Community over 3 years ago, I was incredibly respectful towards the elders...still am. There are guys that have been here before me and I defer to them and their experience and knowledge. The reality is that you only really learn how to become better at this over time and through experience. There are guys that have more experience than I so I treat(ed) them with the respect they deserve.
Having said that, do I always agree with the guys that have been here longer than me? Nope. It's not about agreement. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but they are not entitled to think that the hierarchy of a social group that they just became a part of doesn't apply to them.
- Guest
by Guest » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:33 am
[QUOTE=Ram;37177]I just want to first of all stand up for carnal and say he is good. I hope me saying that doesn't throw me right into this and get my credibility attacked as well. I think this thread went in the wrong direction. If anyone feels like your perspective is being attacked maybe you should be looking at yourself first. In good faith we are all lending our opinions to people on here to help each other, not shoot people down or make ourselves look superior to anyone. That is not and should not be the point to any of this.
@Grimm - To be honest a good friend of mine was going through a tough breakup at the time and needed someone to to talk to and be there for him. I didn't get to get out until way later that night then I wanted to and told you I would be there by and there was a line wrapped around the door. Plus I wasn't even sure if you guys were still there. I had to put aside something I wanted to do for a good friend. I apologized for flaking that night but will do it again. I am sorry bro. I hope that good faith is still there and you would like to go out sarging sometime. I am still looking forward to meeting and seeing you in action. If you think I chickened out... Well I guess I am the one here with someting to prove. I have no problem with earning respect first.[/QUOTE]
That's a stand up thing to say man. I was clearly unfair to you, my bad.
@Grimm - To be honest a good friend of mine was going through a tough breakup at the time and needed someone to to talk to and be there for him. I didn't get to get out until way later that night then I wanted to and told you I would be there by and there was a line wrapped around the door. Plus I wasn't even sure if you guys were still there. I had to put aside something I wanted to do for a good friend. I apologized for flaking that night but will do it again. I am sorry bro. I hope that good faith is still there and you would like to go out sarging sometime. I am still looking forward to meeting and seeing you in action. If you think I chickened out... Well I guess I am the one here with someting to prove. I have no problem with earning respect first.[/QUOTE]
That's a stand up thing to say man. I was clearly unfair to you, my bad.
- Guest
by Guest » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:00 pm
@ Grimm, those are some harsh words. You nor anyone on this board knows me except for Ram. Believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see. I don't care to quote/confront the things you wrote about me, I'm not into name calling and I have nothing to prove.
I will state for the record that I understand whole heartedly there is a hierarchy here... I honestly wanted to meet all of you, but unfortunately I didn't join this lair untill recently. I already have a vast amount of knowledge from the few years I've been doing this.
It is incorrect of me to come on this board and break down posts of guys who have been loyal and committed to providing their services free of charge, withought having built a rapport with any of you. Trust me I understand how you guys feel. But if i see something that doesn't look right, I will point it out, regardless of who you are. But I'm no threat, nor am I wanting to come off as a big dick gunslinger. Thats just not what I'm about.
If we can't discuss things with class and in a civil manner then this is not a place for me to share my thoughts.
Although I have a couple years under my belt, I waited to join the lair (a couple months back) for 2 reasons. 1) In the beginning I knew that this was a solo journey for me. In the beginning, Ram and I winged together almost [B][U]every[/U][/B] single night for a very long time. It was serious shit, no games, It was work. I didn't want to post my results on a forum, although in retrospect I think I should have because writing is a great way to grow quickly. 2) I feel that I have finally reached a point that I can be helpfull.
Maybe I took this thread the wrong way, maybe I didn't. I'm not trying to rip anyone, but I am voicing how I feel about what BR has said in his posts on this thread and the content only, not his character (i don't know any of you).
This following quote regarding those who have taken a bootcamp, is obtuse to me.
[QUOTE=Bull Run;37056]
But, in my opinion, that's the pussy's way out. If someone really wants something they're going to figure out a way to get it. Period. End of story.
[/QUOTE]
At one point BR, you stated that bc's provide value and then contradict that with stating "it is the pussy's way out".
This is the reason why I had anything to say....
I will state for the record that I understand whole heartedly there is a hierarchy here... I honestly wanted to meet all of you, but unfortunately I didn't join this lair untill recently. I already have a vast amount of knowledge from the few years I've been doing this.
It is incorrect of me to come on this board and break down posts of guys who have been loyal and committed to providing their services free of charge, withought having built a rapport with any of you. Trust me I understand how you guys feel. But if i see something that doesn't look right, I will point it out, regardless of who you are. But I'm no threat, nor am I wanting to come off as a big dick gunslinger. Thats just not what I'm about.
If we can't discuss things with class and in a civil manner then this is not a place for me to share my thoughts.
Although I have a couple years under my belt, I waited to join the lair (a couple months back) for 2 reasons. 1) In the beginning I knew that this was a solo journey for me. In the beginning, Ram and I winged together almost [B][U]every[/U][/B] single night for a very long time. It was serious shit, no games, It was work. I didn't want to post my results on a forum, although in retrospect I think I should have because writing is a great way to grow quickly. 2) I feel that I have finally reached a point that I can be helpfull.
Maybe I took this thread the wrong way, maybe I didn't. I'm not trying to rip anyone, but I am voicing how I feel about what BR has said in his posts on this thread and the content only, not his character (i don't know any of you).
This following quote regarding those who have taken a bootcamp, is obtuse to me.
[QUOTE=Bull Run;37056]
But, in my opinion, that's the pussy's way out. If someone really wants something they're going to figure out a way to get it. Period. End of story.
[/QUOTE]
At one point BR, you stated that bc's provide value and then contradict that with stating "it is the pussy's way out".
This is the reason why I had anything to say....
- Guest
by Guest » Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:46 pm
[QUOTE=Carnal;37181]It is incorrect of me to come on this board and break down posts of guys who have been loyal and committed to providing their services free of charge, withought having built a rapport with any of you. Trust me I understand how you guys feel. But if i see something that doesn't look right, I will point it out, regardless of who you are. But I'm no threat, nor am I wanting to come off as a big dick gunslinger. Thats just not what I'm about.
Maybe I took this thread the wrong way, maybe I didn't. I'm not trying to rip anyone, but I am voicing how I feel about what BR has said in his posts on this thread and the content only, not his character (i don't know any of you).
At one point BR, you stated that bc's provide value and then contradict that with stating "it is the pussy's way out".
This is the reason why I had anything to say....[/QUOTE]
I think this is a stand up post. Sometimes, context and our intentions get lost via this medium...especially when we don't know the one voicing said opinions. This goes both ways and is independent of quality or senority.
As for my point that I think a bootcamp is a pussy's way out. This doesn't mean that I don't think they have value, I just feel like they're a bit of a shortcut. And, under the context of when I made that statement, I was speaking of bootcamps as essentially being nothing more than paid peer pressure (which is what most of them are).
I think hiring a trainer at a gym is kind of the easy way out. Effective yes, but still the easy way out. My perspective is that if you have to have someone hold your hand then it kind of takes away from the mental toughness that you need to develop to be good at pick-up or in the gym or anywhere really. I've always been the guy that learns on my own through my own readings, experiences, and philosophies. I did it in college and grad school, I did it in the gym when I started working out, and I did it in pick-up.
Doesn't make me a better person, not in the least. But, learning on my own has instilled in me a pride and confidence that I'm capable of doing whatever it is that I set my mind to without help from others. This is my perspective and it could very well be wrong, just as yours and other pro-bootcampers could be wrong too.
Maybe I took this thread the wrong way, maybe I didn't. I'm not trying to rip anyone, but I am voicing how I feel about what BR has said in his posts on this thread and the content only, not his character (i don't know any of you).
At one point BR, you stated that bc's provide value and then contradict that with stating "it is the pussy's way out".
This is the reason why I had anything to say....[/QUOTE]
I think this is a stand up post. Sometimes, context and our intentions get lost via this medium...especially when we don't know the one voicing said opinions. This goes both ways and is independent of quality or senority.
As for my point that I think a bootcamp is a pussy's way out. This doesn't mean that I don't think they have value, I just feel like they're a bit of a shortcut. And, under the context of when I made that statement, I was speaking of bootcamps as essentially being nothing more than paid peer pressure (which is what most of them are).
I think hiring a trainer at a gym is kind of the easy way out. Effective yes, but still the easy way out. My perspective is that if you have to have someone hold your hand then it kind of takes away from the mental toughness that you need to develop to be good at pick-up or in the gym or anywhere really. I've always been the guy that learns on my own through my own readings, experiences, and philosophies. I did it in college and grad school, I did it in the gym when I started working out, and I did it in pick-up.
Doesn't make me a better person, not in the least. But, learning on my own has instilled in me a pride and confidence that I'm capable of doing whatever it is that I set my mind to without help from others. This is my perspective and it could very well be wrong, just as yours and other pro-bootcampers could be wrong too.
- Guest
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