Article I read today on why women are happier with guys less attractive then them

[Guest]

[B]Dating Down[/B]

[B]Why Less Attractive Men Make Better Mates[/B]

July 27, 2010By Elise Nersesian-Solé[URL="http://glo.msn.com/relationships/dating-down-1533626.story#showComments"][B]364[/B][COLOR=#000000] Comments[/COLOR][/URL]
[LEFT]My friend Karen is a gorgeous, tall, auburn-haired beauty with measurements that would put Barbie to shame. And although she has her pick of hot guys to choose from, she's currently in a committed relationship with a man who's pushing 5'6", balding and could afford to park 15 pounds.


And she couldn't be happier.

Their pairing is not an anomaly. All one has to do is step out onto the street or flip through a gossip rag to see a great beauty stepping out with her beast. From couples such as J. Lo and Mark Anthony, Beth Ostrosky and Howard Stern, Salman Rushdie, and well, anyone, one thing is clear: Physically-mismatched couples are everywhere.

Sure, these guys have money and power — a trait evolutionary biologists say women place great value on — yet scientists say when not accounting for these factors, these female hotties may be onto something deeper.

A recent study published in the [I]Journal of Family Psychology [/I]suggests that for women, dating a less attractive man may result in a happier, more emotionally satisfying relationship.

Researchers from UCLA and the University of Tennessee gathered 82 couples in their mid-twenties who had married in the past year and had been together for almost three years prior, then filmed the couples discussing a personal problem. All the while, a panel of people evaluated who was the better looking individual in each pair. After analyzing the tapes, researchers discovered that in couples where the man was more attractive than the woman, he said often things such as, “This is your problem, you deal with it” whereas the unattractive hubbies were more apt to say things like, “I'm here for you — what do you want me to do? How can I help you?'"

“It's possible that a man who is less attractive than his partner feels so grateful to be with her that he works harder to maintain the relationship, amping up the amount of emotional support and kindness he provides,” says Benjamin R. Karney, Ph.D., a professor of social psychology at UCLA. “Yet a man who is better looking than his partner knows he has lots of other options besides his mate, so he's less committed to providing the emotional support long term relationships need to thrive.”

“In fact, among couples where the husband was the looker, [I]both[/I] partners supported each other less,” says Karney. “That implies when the husband disengages emotionally, the wife follows suit. Then no one is happy — it's a vicious cycle.”

Karney chalks up the relationship between a female goddess and a less beautiful man to The Social Exchange Theory: Simply put, people use a cost-benefit analysis when they think about entering or staying in a relationship. So a man might not rival Robert Pattinson in the looks department but if he's willing to please, emotionally engaged, and loyal, a woman will probably overlook his looks when deciding to pursue him. Likewise, if a woman possesses beauty and youth but say, doesn't earn a high income, a man will overlook that in exchange for genetically blessed offspring. Everyone brings something to the party.

And considering there's a shortage of hot guys to go around these days, say researchers at the London School of Economics, the exchange between a lovely and a not-so-lovely works out perfectly. “An evolutionary strategy programmed into our DNA dictates that attractive people have 36 percent greater odds of having a daughter than a son,” says Satoshi Kanazawa Ph.D., a professor of management at the London School of Economics and Political Science. “Due to this evolutionary process and because physical attractiveness is highly heritable, there tends to be more beautiful women in the world than there are beautiful men.”

If nothing else, you may find that your not-so-pretty man brings his A-game in the bedroom. “What I've seen from my clinical practice is that women who are married to men less attractive than them often have happy sex lives most likely because their mate tries harder to please them sexually,” says Bethany Marshall, Ph.D., author of the book [I]Deal Breakers[/I]. “And while there's no hard data to support the theory, it makes sense that if an unattractive man has to work harder than a handsome man to stay in his relationship, he must work just as hard in the bedroom.” [/LEFT]

[Guest]

Great article. I was doing some reading on this topic today myself, funny thing. I am more or less what many women would consider classically "handsome," and it really can be a problem trying to convince the girls that you're ACTUALLY attracted to them and think they are special, and it's not you being a player or lazy.

I actually go out of my way to look worse many nights - like not combing my hair, dressing down, etc. But I am going to stop doing this.

I really think game is different depending on how much initial attraction you have from your looks/money/etc. A guy with these things has to work much harder on the qualification (A3) stuff, and make a girl feel like she's earned his attention, all throughout the relationship. The more LSE the girl, the more this applies.

On the other hand, DHV stories have never worked for me. It ALWAYS comes across as bragging. I've been messing around with cocky/funny lately to see if that is a good way to build attraction in those sets where the girls shit test you RIGHT off the bat. I've had mixed results.

I really think game is different.

[Guest]

Women are incredibly needy and lack the self-esteem necessary to deal with problems in her life in an effective and efficient manner. This is why she seeks out men that can help her solve her problems. It goes without saying that if a man is more attractive and has more options, then he's going to be less interested in getting involved in her day-to-day bullshit.

But, men are incredibly needy as well. It is the quintessential beta male that gets the uber hottie. Because he will ALWAYS put her ahead of him. He knows that she's hot and he knows that he probably can't do better, so he does whatever it takes to keep her. That's some crazy neediness and lack of strength. I see it all the time...pick any weekend and go stand outside of the Magnolia and watch the couples rolling in together...hottie with Joe Twelve Pack...

Women are very, very insecure with respect to looks. They are more comfortable with a less attractive man because this means that she doesn't have to fear that he'll find someone else. Further, women have a strong desire to be the more attractive one in the relationship. If she's with an unattractive guy, then she's going to feel like he'll stay forever.

Generally speaking, the hotter the girl is the more she demands that we comply with her reality. They are generally much less likely to be nurturing and pleasing because they think their looks are enough. The opposite is true with less attractive girls.

By far the BEST girl to pull is the late bloomer or ugly duckling. You want a girl that grew up fat or ugly but blossomed later in life and is now a hottie. These girls tend to hold on to that image of being unattractive so they don't recognize how they look today, and thus, don't hold me to task using their beauty as their weapon. They don't know it exists. In addition, all of those years growing up without attention from men has caused them to become very, very happy and eager to please a man when one finally does show her attention. Finally, they usually had to develop a really cool personality (let's face it guys, fat and/or ugly women are just cooler people).

Like the song goes, if you want to be a happy man for the rest of your life, make an ugly woman your wife. Guess it goes both ways...

[Guest]

[QUOTE=grimm1111;36906]Great article. I was doing some reading on this topic today myself, funny thing. I am more or less what many women would consider classically "handsome," and it really can be a problem trying to convince the girls that you're ACTUALLY attracted to them and think they are special, and it's not you being a player or lazy.

I actually go out of my way to look worse many nights - like not combing my hair, dressing down, etc. But I am going to stop doing this.

I really think game is different depending on how much initial attraction you have from your looks/money/etc. A guy with these things has to work much harder on the qualification (A3) stuff, and make a girl feel like she's earned his attention, all throughout the relationship. The more LSE the girl, the more this applies.

On the other hand, DHV stories have never worked for me. It ALWAYS comes across as bragging. I've been messing around with cocky/funny lately to see if that is a good way to build attraction in those sets where the girls shit test you RIGHT off the bat. I've had mixed results.

I really think game is different.[/QUOTE]

Hey Grim I don't know you personally but I do have a suggestion for you

Long before I got into game I had this friend that was a total all american. Tall, beefy, studly and in every way classicly good looking. In hindsight he re-enforced several of my bad habits because he had no game. Kinda a dry personality, was bad at conversation, not the funniest and would court girls in the classic nice guy fashion. Yet this worked for him. Dude dated the hottest girls at baylor over and and over again and could get away with murder while he was dating them. It's like he could do nothing wrong. At the time I didn't realize that once a girl is attracted to you it doesn't matter why and being good looking is just a shortcut. See you can assume attraction in a lot more situations as I'm sure you already know. The thing my old friend did so well is constantly show his willingness to walk away. Girls wanted to believe he was a "good guy" so bad that would totally excuse him standing her up, talking to another girl right in front her or literally walking away mid conversation. Because when they met him he came across so nice, and they've heard from almost everyone how nice a guy he is. You are right drop the dhv stories. Maybe you should just try being polite and then less available. after all prince charming is almost never there when a girl really needs him to be right?

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Ram;36909]Hey Grim I don't know you personally but I do have a suggestion for you

Long before I got into game I had this friend that was a total all american. Tall, beefy, studly and in every way classicly good looking. In hindsight he re-enforced several of my bad habits because he had no game. Kinda a dry personality, was bad at conversation, not the funniest and would court girls in the classic nice guy fashion. Yet this worked for him. Dude dated the hottest girls at baylor over and and over again and could get away with murder while he was dating them. It's like he could do nothing wrong. At the time I didn't realize that once a girl is attracted to you it doesn't matter why and being good looking is just a shortcut. See you can assume attraction in a lot more situations as I'm sure you already know. The thing my old friend did so well is constantly show his willingness to walk away. Girls wanted to believe he was a "good guy" so bad that would totally excuse him standing her up, talking to another girl right in front her or literally walking away mid conversation. Because when they met him he came across so nice, and they've heard from almost everyone how nice a guy he is. You are right drop the dhv stories. Maybe you should just try being polite and then less available. after all prince charming is almost never there when a girl really needs him to be right?[/QUOTE]

That's interesting. Most of my posts from like a year or two ago were about how cocky/funny, DHV stories, and pretty much all attraction game are pointless and hurt you more than they help. When I was at my very best, all I opened with was "Hi" and then just start vibing about nothing at all. I would actually talk about some of the stupidest, unflashiest shit imaginable.

So yeah, like you say, assume attraction.

Well, that came from my own experiences - trial and error. What I've begun to realize is that game is different for everybody, and what works for me probably sucks for a lot of people.

These days, now that I'm back in the run of things, the focus is on conveying personality. I want to be able to win over a girl's friends better. The other thing I'm working on is a good, consistent way of handling shit tests. I feel like if you can walk in with value and confidence, have her friends thinking you're a cool guy, sit back and pass a series of shit tests, convey that you're really interested, and escalate properly, you'll nail that more times than not.

[Guest]

No wonder I'm single, I'm just too good looking! :p

but on a serious note, this makes total sense. I dated a solid 7 off and on for two years and I was clearly the one who had a higher sexual market value. To perpetuate the problem, she blossomed late and was unattractive until her early twenties (ugly duckling as BR puts it).

Long story short, she's engaged and will marry a guy that is a 3 (in the looks dept) at best. No joke.

[Guest]

Someone posted this on the SF lair, and I think it's not a solid study, or that the news articles glanced over a bunch of stuff. The first examples the article gives is of extremely high status guys.

The 82 couples were recently married have been together for less than 4 years. I wonder if a follow up study will be made in another 5 years to see how many of these 82 couples still are happy, and how many women are banging guys on the side (not because the guys are ugly, but because the article makes them seem really needy, etc.).

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Lazarus;36917]The 82 couples were recently married have been together for less than 4 years. I wonder if a follow up study will be made in another 5 years to see how many of these 82 couples still are happy, and how many women are banging guys on the side (not because the guys are ugly, but because the article makes them seem really needy, etc.).[/QUOTE]


If very attractive women require needy men, which I think they absolutely do, then why would the woman ever stray from a needy man?

Most women cheat because the man stops paying attention to them and stops putting them on a pedestal. If the girls feels like just another girl, then they will find someone else to put them on a pedestal and to shower them with attention (sadly, I learned this lesson the hard way).

It's funny but we ONLY ever really talk about the initial pick up of a woman. Really, Game only comments on the first few weeks, or maybe months, of a relationship. Once the newness wears off, women want something different than the strong, aloof man that doesn't put her on a pedestal. She always, always, always eventually wants him to hold her in high regard.

In a woman's mind, they want the man to be strong and powerful with everyone else in the world. But, when it comes to this one specific woman, the woman wants him to be supportive, encouraging, and, yes, to a certain extent she wants to be placed on a pedestal.

We always say that jerks get the girls. Well, that's probably true. In public he's probably a huge jerk, but in private I can assure you he's much less so. I know, because I've lived it myself and I know for a fact that several of us on here have as well.

If you hold the belief that very attractive women have constantly been handled with kid gloves in our society, which I do (they do get preferential treatment). Then, that's the treatment they always eventually expect. Sure, initially, being a little more harsh or aloof with them will generate attraction because you're not treating her the same as everyone else has...she finds this attractive because it makes it seem as if her beauty is not intimiating to you (confidence) and that you may not even recognize it fully (you want something more than what everyone else has always wanted).

Make no mistake, all attractive women eventually require emotional support and reverence from their man.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Bull Run;36921]If very attractive women require needy men, which I think they absolutely do, then why would the woman ever stray from a needy man?[/QUOTE]

Two reasons: 1) validation, and 2) entitlement.

I have seen many couples break up over the years. In many cases, it is because the woman starts to go out and get hit on by hot guys. Then, she falls into the trap that sleeping with hot guys, rather than the sure thing she has at home, validates her. This is something that is usually attributed to male behavior, but women are guilty of it too.

Also, like you said, attractive women are used to getting attention and special treatment. They have a sense of entitlement. I have seen this with the "ugly ducklings" you talked about. In fact, it might be worse with the ugly ducklings because it's new to them so they're more likely to indulge. I know one woman who was an ugly duckling and got hot in her mid-late 20s. She cheated on her husband like crazy. You could see it in her attitude. It was like, "I'm hot now, I'm turning heads, I'm entitled to this attention." But her husband wasn't entitled to her attention. She only fucked him once every month or two.

To be honest, this is what happened to my marriage. My wife and I were pretty equal in attractiveness. When she hit her late 20s/early 30s, she filled out, let her hair grow long, started going tanning, and started going out with her friends more. She wanted independence, and that's why we got divorced. It's funny, because after we got divorced she hit a wall. She went from an 8+ to a 6 overnight. Now she's married to a guy who works security at a popular bar. He has young attractive women chasing after him all the time. Karma is a bitch.

This also illustrates why it's great to be a man. I think couples tend to break up early because the woman feels she can do better, and couples tend to break up later because the woman hits a wall and the man feels he can do better.

I truly believe that if you are in a relationship with a woman you know is more attractive than you (or any relationship based largely on physical attraction), then you are on a slippery slope.

[Guest]

The hottest girls get hit on A LOT. But who has the balls to hit on the 10's? Is it the nice dork? No, usually it's the jerk who is unafraid because he doesn't give a fuck. So she dates a lot of jerks, or at least the ones with some game.

A lot of these girls would love nothing more than to date a great guy who values them, but also has real confidence and isn't intimidated by them.

One day, she wakes up and realizes she's on the wrong end of 25, and realizes she doesn't want to settle down with a jerk. So many times, she'll marry a dork who she isn't really attracted to, but at least he treats her better than the jerks she dated.

Sometimes they cheat. If a woman feels like she's wearing the pants in the family (and if the man is intimidated by the woman and caves in to her all the time, she IS wearing the pants), if a woman feels that way - many many many women will lose all attraction for the man and some of those will stray.

That said, I think you guys are being somewhat cynical about all of this. It is very possible to both value and appreciate a woman (and ALL women need this, not just the hot ones), and at the same time have the confidence to not be intimidated by her and not be a pushover.