My conversation w/Formhandle on the future of the community

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My conversation w/Formhandle on the future of the community

Postby Mojo » Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:04 pm

On Thursday, I had a lengthly discussion with Jay (aka Formhandle) regarding the future of this community. What we are doing here will be THE model for all lairs in the future. It is important to have a system in place to prevent abuse of power. I asked Formhandle to post on runningaPUAgroup (the yahoo group for all the world's lair leaders) on what we had discussed. Here is his post:

Part of the discussion was about how guys who sell workshops & such do
talks for Lairs, etc, and the way I see things is that much of the time
Lairs are *either* being taken advantage of as freebie purely
promotional vehicles for them (to sell expensive workshops/bootcamps )
*or* used to provide kickbacks to lair managers with questionable ethics.

There are really simple ways to keep things cool without people being
taken advantage of (whether the lairs themselves or members of those lairs):

- The speaker/guru should NOT be paid to appear. Nothing is paid for
except of course to feed them at the event or unexpected stuff which is
a burden to them. They should be there to share info not self-promote
(of course they ARE there to self-promote, that should not be their only
or prinary interest in being there or they should not be there).

- OK so recognizable names draw in more people to meetings but consider
this: do you want to run a Lair where many people only show up when a
big name speaker is there? Are you running the Lair to help guys or are
you running the Lair to have the largest head count?

- DO NOT allow the speaker to self-promote during their "talk", no "My
web site is at...", no "Talk to my buddy in the back who's collecting
email addresses... " no flyers or business cards handed out. All the
promotion they should require is the fact that the Lair is promoting
them to be there to talk in the first place and Lair members given info
on how to get in touch with them IF thye are interested after the talk.
There should be no unsolicited shit going on. If someone is
interested, they should be the one to approach the guy and his biz, not
the other way around. This puts the focus on the guy having a good talk
and having him see your lair members as targets to sell expensive stuff to.

- No kick-backs of any kind to organizers of the event. If there is a
cost to get a room or place for the meeting, you take the REAL cost and
divide it up among how many members you estimate will attend, add $2 a
per head on top of that and you got how much you might have to charge
members to attend. NONE of that money goes to the speaker(s) and if
there is any left over it goes into the coffers. If there is not
enough, you contact those who did attend and ask if they can cover the
minor difference.

- No promotion of workshops the guy is doing in that location after the
talk. For example no "Don't forget guys, I'm only in town for 4 more
days, so sign up to my $1500 bootcamp in the back before you go. We
take Visa and Amex!" If they are hosting a bootcamp/workshop event
before/after, it can be stated by the lair to members at the time the
talk is "promoted". Then it's up to the member to decide on their own
whether they want to take a workshop or whatever. If he has to hype to
members at the meeting, then he's using the lair to be a salesman for
his business (unwittingly or otherwise).

Just think about this: Yes you do want regular good speakers because you
want to have a good lair that actually helps guys but do you want to do
so by becoming part of a sales machine for businesses focused more on
making money than actually helping guys? Don't compromise your ethics
or the good will of your lair (or the general on census on what a
community should be about). If you're one of those guys who is
compromising and doing so because you're benefiting financially from it,
then you'll get filtered out soon enough, and this is a fair warning...

The community was NEVER about being centered on guys who get paid to
train, it's about guys helping each other, self-help, sharing
information and experiences, finding like-minded people with similar
interests in self-improvement, etc.
Do not be part of the machine that
focuses the community on churning people through workshops. That does
not mean don't have guys come & talk, etc, just don't break ethics or
compromise them or the trust of your members by allowing your lair to be
exploited. If someone wants to come and speak but doesn't like or isn't
willing to abide by such guidelines then that tells you something about
what their real interest is and would you even want them to speak to
your lair members in the first place if they're not there to truly
provide a benefit and only there to churn sales?

--
Form <formhandle@fastsedu ction.com>

Fast Seduction 101 - http://www.fastseduction.com/
Class is now in session...


I am glad you are a part of this and know we will accomplish much. What we are doing here matters and will have a positive influence on the whole community.

Best,

Mojo
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Postby Vector » Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:29 pm

I think the line between self-promotion and just "informing" members and letting them make their own decisions is a blurry one that is going to be hard to quantify in hard-and-fast rules as to what can be said and what can't be said.

If anything I think the restrictions should perhaps focus on what the event organizers or lair leaders can say, because there is more danger of a conflict of interest there. If a lair leader says "it is my pleasure to introduce the most awesome PU guru in the world.." that is the sort of thing that can sour goodwill with the members, moreso than a speaker saying he's the most awesome PU guru in the world.

As far as what the speaker can and can't say, I would put more emphasis on how much time and content is "material" versus "advertising". To me a little bit of advertising is okay as long as it's under control and there are guidelines for what percentage of the time can be spent advertising. I'd suggest perhaps 3 minutes per hour of content, but we'll need more specific rules for how something is judged to be advertising versus content.

Also, this goes without saying, (which is probably why it's not part of the policy) but it should probably be formalized: the lair organizers may not under any circumstances give out information about members to presenters. For example a list of attendees, which the presenter could then abuse to PM people individually.

It may also be worth changing the format of how people signal their intent to attend an event. A thread with people saying they'll go produces an approximate list of attendees. We may want to look into some other mechanism.
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