Styles of and development of Game

[Guest]

Tonight I had a revelation. I have been out the previous two nights, first with you guys, and then by myself last night. During that time I approached 6 sets. I opened with various canned material, some okay, some total crap and some that started a conversation that I could thread with.

Now the revelation that I had was that all game is different. The majority of men have game that we in the community refer to as AFC. Meaning these men are practicing a style of game that focuses on appeasement. That is, giving the woman what she wants, in the hopes that her attention will focus on them. Mystery Method could be though of as another style of game. Cocky/Funny and Natural Game are others, and certainly NLP has to have a mention here.

So my thought is why is it so hard to break out of the AFC gaming style to try these other styles. Well the issue here is one of practice. Collectively, we as men have learned AFC gaming and practiced it all of our lives. We have become experts at it, so much so that it is second nature to us. For me, it is so ingrained that I shake when talking to beautiful women. That I go AFC almost immediately even if I have canned material or something creative to say.

This is a similar effect to when you first drive a car, and you think about everything you do, and your just not that good at it. However, after several years of practice, the logistics of driving move to your subconscious mind and you become expert at it.

The thought continued further that the reason AFC gaming doesn't work all the time is similar to the reason that no one school of martial arts works all the time. That is, that our opponents know what to expect and to counter our moves. Certainly, it must be considered that at one point, AFC gaming did work, otherwise, why would we all have adopted this method?

However, like MMA (mixed martial arts) if you mix up your moves. Some MM, some alpha, some NLP, some AFC even, that you become a lethal PU machine.

Now, what led me down this rabbit trail was canned material. I hate canned material! It sucks ass, because I can never seem to execute it properly and when I get lucky and everything comes out right, I feel success, but I also feel like a fraud.

I have seriously thought about the bootcamps, and I have thought of other forms of training. The fact is, that as a life long AFC gamer (at least this far in my life), I need more than just a few days of here is this and that. I need to constantly practice these things, get honest feedback and adjust to improve. I taught myself different things all my life, but with this one thing, it isn't something you can teach yourself by yourself. You need to have social interaction, you need to have a real person on the other end of the communication.

Unfortunately, I do not know of very many schools that teach this stuff over the long term, so that is were clubs and bars come in at. I am not a club person, in fact I pretty much despise clubs and bars. What these places do offer however is a place to train, to practice, and to make connections with people.

So those are my few cents worth of thought and revelation. I just needed to write some of these thoughts down for them to totally crystallize.

[Guest]

When I first started, I went out alone A LOT. Of course, this wasn't too difficult for me because it's hard to get me to shut the fuck up. But, what I did was pick a handful of bars that I enjoyed going to and that I felt comfortable going to. Then, I would just hit each one a couple of times a week and run game. After a period of time, it just became a way for me to practice and hone my skills, even if the girls weren't always the hottest things in the world.

The point is that it's hard enough to learn this stuff in a vacuum, so be sure to remove as many variables as you possibly can. So, control for the venues by picking ones you like, control for your clothing by wearing theards that you love wearing, control for your friends by going alone. Basically, what you want is to control for as many variables as you can that may impact your success in set. This way you can only focus on and worry about your game, not the venue or your look that night or whatever.

[Guest]

For me, and I suspect most people, approaching and opening isn't something that's gonna be an internalized, automatic thing we learn how to do, like driving a car.

I've always been very shy my entire life. That's where my brain's autopilot wants to go.

The mind is a lot like a muscle. Example: London is one of the hardest cities in the world to navigate. Cab drivers in London have very active brain scans on the portion of the brain that is responsible for mapping. When people are exposed to the use of Garmin/Nav systems in their cars, this portion of the brain doesn't light up as much during brain scans. It starts to atrophy, for lack of a better term. Just like your biceps, if you work them regularly, they get stronger. If you don't they turn to flab. The brain is no different.

I'm sure there is a portion of the brain that is responsible for conversation & socializing as well. As you open more and more sets, and get into more and more conversations with others, this portion of the brain starts to grow and strengthen. But if you are like me, and you're naturally shy, if you allow this to take over again, your ability to converse with others will decline.

I've also noticed this with friends who go from an office environment to the home office. Their social skills start to erode.

It's not like riding a bicycle or driving a car. It's completely different. -- My theory, for what it's worth.

Another thing I'd recommend for a newer guy to realize. Right after I got into this avenue of self improvement, I went to Athens for a football game. I separated from my friends, went to a large bar and opened one set after another after another. Stayed in that bar for probably 5 or 6 hours. It was good and bad. It was good, because it helped me conquer my AA for the next few weeks. It was bad, because of what I didn't realize about women and pre-selection. If you're in a bar, and you approach and open a set, and if the body language screams that she isn't buying, almost every other woman in the venue sees that and notices it. If she wouldn't have you, you are WAY less desirable to every other woman in the bar. I just kept approaching that night, and got blown out by every single girl I approached. I couldn't understand it. At closing time, I left that bar, and within 5 minutes of hitting the sidewalk, I was making out with some chick on the street. It wasn't that I was undesirable to women in general, it's just that I was demonstrating Un-Selected (the opposite of pre-selected) to the other women in the bar.

Ultimately, what that night in Georgia did for me, was, I somehow internalized approaching women with getting blown out. My advice is, if you're going out solo, enter a venue, approach a set, if the buying signs are there, go with it. If not, see if possibly there were other girls that didn't see you get blown out and approach them. If not, get out of the venue and go elsewhere.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=alphagame]I'm sure there is a portion of the brain that is responsible for conversation & socializing as well. As you open more and more sets, and get into more and more conversations with others, this portion of the brain starts to grow and strengthen. But if you are like me, and you're naturally shy, if you allow this to take over again, your ability to converse with others will decline.

I've also noticed this with friends who go from an office environment to the home office. Their social skills start to erode.[/QUOTE]

I have complete buy in to this. I do not think the two ideas are mutually exclusive. My example would be that once you learn how to ride a bike, you never forget how to. However, if you don't ride a bike for 10 years, and then you just try to hop on one and go, you will have some problems. Your ramp up time though will be shorter than had you never learned to ride a bike to begin with.

I work from home, and your right about that to.. Getting up 5 mins before work and not talking to anyone all day long is just BAD for you. Don't get me wrong, I have a GREAT job. I just would like to live closer to a primary office so that I could have the choice of going in or staying home.

[QUOTE=alphagame]It was bad, because of what I didn't realize about women and pre-selection. If you're in a bar, and you approach and open a set, and if the body language screams that she isn't buying, almost every other woman in the venue sees that and notices it. If she wouldn't have you, you are WAY less desirable to every other woman in the bar. [/QUOTE]

This I am not so sure about. In terms of body language, I can see your point, and understand that others can and will pick up on that. So if you went up to a one set, and immediately got blown out, yeah that could be bad. However, in approaching 2 sets, 3 sets, etc.. I have always focused on initially gaining rapport with the set vs the target. If you get acceptance by the set, you gain acceptance by the target. In the few sets that I have successfully opened, this was the case. In the sets I have been blown out of, it wasn't the individual girl that blew me out but her friends. When I have approached a single girl, I have usually screwed up the approach by going AFC, thus getting blown out. Now in my limited experience, it seems that letting other people see you laughing and joking around in set helps them to think that you are preselected, even if you do get blown out eventually.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=traxxus;36609]Now, what led me down this rabbit trail was canned material. I hate canned material! It sucks ass, because I can never seem to execute it properly and when I get lucky and everything comes out right, I feel success, but I also feel like a fraud.[/QUOTE]

Canned material has its uses, especially for shy people who aren't used to cold approaches. Like BR said, you need to control some of the variables. There is so much to think about, so canned material allows you to concentrate on your body language, eye contact, the tone and volume of your voice, watching for IOIs, etc. You're right that canned material sucks, but using it in the beginning can help you get all those other things down.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Alphagame;36612]It was bad, because of what I didn't realize about women and pre-selection. If you're in a bar, and you approach and open a set, and if the body language screams that she isn't buying, almost every other woman in the venue sees that and notices it. If she wouldn't have you, you are WAY less desirable to every other woman in the bar.[/QUOTE]


I think this depends on the environment of the bar. If it's one of those sit and linger bars then yes people probably did begin to notice you opening sets over and over again. Whether or not you got blown out is of little consequence, it was the fact that you played pinball with a bunch of girls which made you seem desperate and needy. But, if it's a more dynamic environment where people are coming and going then I can assure you that no one really noticed you get blown out. People just aren't that observant and don't generally care.

I think getting blown out made you feel self-conscious more than anything. It's a normal human response, when we do something that we perceive as being embarassing then we think that everyone saw what happened. Most likely though, no one noticed. And if they did, they probably don't care.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Rhody;36615]Canned material has its uses, especially for shy people who aren't used to cold approaches. Like BR said, you need to control some of the variables. There is so much to think about, so canned material allows you to concentrate on your body language, eye contact, the tone and volume of your voice, watching for IOIs, etc. You're right that canned material sucks, but using it in the beginning can help you get all those other things down.[/QUOTE]


The funny thing is I agree with both statements; Canned material does suck and comes across as very contrived and rehearsed, especially when you are not good at delivering it. As far as opening I almost always think that situational(or direct) is better. But when I go into attraction and comfort I find myself telling the same jokes/stories I've told a hundred other sets. In a weird way we all have "canned material" but when a story that you've told over and over again naturally comes up in conversation it's never called that. That's the point... to simply achieve a level of comfort doing this. Then it really is natural and you aren't stacking, or using rehearsed lines. You really are just enjoying yourself while getting attention from a girl you wanted to talk to. I love the mma reference and it is very aplicable. You have to take a lot of different things that work for you and apply them. Some people even refer to game as social jui-jitsu.

I love that Bull Run talked about going to places that you are comfortable being at. People don't mention the logistics of successful interactions enough. All the little things that add up and contribute to your succes are pretty important. When the bouncer shakes your hand on the way in and you know the bartender and then few of the other regulars say hi to you you have won a ton tiny little battles already by social proofing yourself to the room. Also you are probably in a more outgoing mood than if you were a total stranger to everyone at the place. As easy as it sounds simulate the circumstance that you have been successful with before... Going with a wing or group of friends, flying solo, places you enjoy etc.

I wish I could've made it to the meet up trax. I love it when some one starts threads that get us all thinking again!