Openning vs. HookPoint a Question

[Guest]

A question concerning openning vs Hookpoint occurred to me today after I was thinking about the BallGame I went to in Dallas last night. (Rangers beat the Pirates 6 to 5 at the bottom on the 9th) I was attending a function with some friends in one of the suites so there were plenty of people. A classic social mixer ball game style.

Now one thing I recognize is that opening sets has applications across my entire life. So this is a skill that I really want to master. My goal can be defined simply as how to integrate flawlessly into a group of people that I have not met before.

So of course, the openers I was using were simply to get a conversation started. I try alot of situational openers. My goal was not to pickup but rather to integrate into the group. Example of one of my openers to a set that wasn't really paying attention to the BallGame. "Wow, did you see that homerun? I wonder if that guys on Steroids? (group blah blah) What do you guys think, should they just let professional athletes take that stuff? (blah Blah blah)

Now the opener works fine, it got me in set, and got them talking about my topic. One of the major sticking points that I keep coming back to is the opener ends before I reach hook point. As soon as the opener ends, I am blown out. Now, I have had some limited success. However, most of the time, as soon as the opener ends, I am blown out.

It seems to me that something is missing between the opener and the point where to group doesn't want you to go. MM doesn't speak to this at all, and neither does it seem that there is alot of advice on this.

Thoughts? Suggestions? I'm open to anything.

[Guest]

[QUOTE]"Wow, did you see that homerun? I wonder if that guys on Steroids? (group blah blah) What do you guys think, should they just let professional athletes take that stuff?[/QUOTE]

You're too needy, which comes across as weak and subservient. It then becomes hard to continue after that. You are asking what they think straight up. You'll find that when you don't ask for their opinion the conversation actually goes a lot smoother. If you just throw your opinion out there and go on you'll usually get into a conversation 90% of the time. People usually tend to get their opinions out there.

Think of yourself like you are a radar. A radar sends out a signal, in which waves bounce back and then you'll know something is there. If waves don't come back... oh well. Your job is just to send out pings. When you get a hit, you can then make a decision to pursue it.

I am only saying this for once you are already in with a group. If you're in with a group then this is the mentality to have. Be a radar.

[Guest]

I just realized something else... you asked 4 question right after one another. That smacks of "Please except me, please except me."

It seems forced. It's not a bad situational but I would also recommend lightening up on the questions.

[Guest]

What enables pirate bats to fly/hunt?

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[Guest]

Yeah, Finesse is right. I think you need to understand a few concepts when engaging other people in conversation or in a social situtation:

1) Asking a lot of questions reeks of neediness, it's also incredibly boring. You're trying to start a two way, depthful conversation not give an interview.
2) Stating your opinion on a matter is vastly superior to anything else. Sometimes, it gets you in really awkward situations but so be it, at least people know where you're coming from and what you represent and they'll, at the very least, respect you for it...even if they disagree.
3) You've got to learn to presume. It's better to ask forgiveness than it is to ask permission.

The best way to go about getting into a conversation is like this:

"Wow, that guy just jacked a homer. Makes you wonder if he's on roids. Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with a professional doing that, I mean who doesn't love a homerun?"

Break it down. Statement. Rhetorical/introspective question. Statement of your opinion. Funny quip.

BAM!!! Conversation will ensue. It's actually a good topic to engage in because everyone's so fucking sensitive about the steroid thing now and it's controversial and fun (because it's generally pretty harmless) to discuss with people.

Compare that to what you did:

Question. Question. Question. Question.

Also, use a little social intelligence. The group clearly wasn't paying attention to the game, so why would you ask them if they saw the homerun? The clearly did not. So, you need to report to them the fact of the homerun getting hit. Asking them if they saw it is a huge blunder because you can get blown out right there...they can very, very easily say yes, no, or ignore you. In any case, there is no action they need to take.

The way to hook a conversation is to postulate questions or make statements that requires an individual to expand on. The problem is that questions are needy, while statements project confidence. Think about how to speak in statements, think about how to change a question into a statement of intent or of opinion. That's a great first step, you'll definitely capture more interest this way.

[Guest]

I think it was BR who talked about what I think your talking about Finesse with Sonar. This also ties in with opening, and I view them as connected.

-Send a signal
-Receive a Reply (echo)
-Based on Reply (echo) send another signal.

This ties in with the conversation threading that I'm working on. You really have to listen carefully when a person is talking to pick up on things you can continue the conversation with. I've been getting alot of what you guys describe as yes, no, maybe answers. Which is exactly why I think I'm getting blown out.

I think what you guys are saying is instead of asking the question, challenge them to either agree or disagree with you about a situation in a cocky/funny manner. Conversation should flow after that, and then you start conversation threading.

I will put this into practice.

[Guest]

I like to think about it this way. Functionally, a what a question does is focus the attention of the interaction on the person being asked the question. Think about that for a second. What is communicated, then, if you ask too many questions, is that you are uncomfortable being the center of attention.

On the other hand, sometimes it's a great thing to focus the attention on the other person. For example, with someone you know well or are in the rapport stages with, a well-timed question can convey a genuine interest in the other person.

Another way to look at it is, in Mystery terms, a question is like an indicator of interest. It is very flattering to be asked questions. If you indicate too much interest too early, it goes without saying that you are going to have some problems.

So I would say as far as question-asking goes, to save that until you're in a rapport-building stage with someone. In the early going, the focus should be on building value with stories, humor, general demeanor.

[Guest]

I love the radar metaphor. I'm going to try to keep that mindset when I'm in set.
I do notice that when my nerves begin to get the better of me in an interaction I start switching to "interview mode" and just start firing off questions which does reek of neediness. Being the center of attention is the last thing I want when I start to get that anxious so in order to alleviate that, its almost a natural instinct to share the attention amongst the people you are talking to.

By the way Bull Run, the statement you made about learning to presume since it's better to ask forgiveness than it is to ask permission is definitely something else I've got to internalize. Thanks for that.

Great comments and very helpful.

[Guest]

Traxxus, I think you were initially thinking in terms of opinion openers. The difference between an opinion opener and an interview question is that the opinion opener typically has a back story and the opinion question is simply a way to segue into talking about yourself. The opinion itself is illusionary input, it's a way to get her to unwittingly prompt you to talk more.

PUA: Do girls think that Curious George is a sexy monkey?
HB: [doesn't matter]
PUA: Get this, I was at my friend's house and his little niece was...

So your steroid question is fine if you have a back story to launch into.

PUA: Do you think professional athletes should be allowed to do steroids?
Other people: [doesn't matter]
PUA: I had this roommate in college who used to do steroids. But all he ever did was bench press and biceps curls. He worked out like crazy, but he had this huge upper body and skinny, skinny legs. We used to call him Schoolhouse Rock because he looked like a character from that, red hair and everything. Remember Shoolhouse Rock?

That's actually a true story for me. Even your first question is fine if you follow up on it.

PUA: Did you guys see that home run?
Other people: No
PUA: That's because I just made it up. But it shows that you're not into the game. I would be much more into the game if I was closer to the field.

If the person does offer something, then reward him/her with your interest. Otherwise, be a man of abundance and offer your own opinion and back stories.