[QUOTE=Finesse;35516]Rhody, the fact that you said, "There's something arrogant, almost blasphemous, about claiming to have all the answers." Is at its root blasphemy.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say that God is blasphemy; I said that CLAIMING TO HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS is ALMOST blasphemy. I was ambiguous on purpose. I choose my words carefully, but people keep reading between the lines, adding their inferences, and jumping to conclusions.
[quote]I would consider religion/faith, or at least some variation of it, sacred since some, it's estimated, 64% of the worlds population belives in a God.
You want to remain skeptical about God? That's fine I understand where you're coming from... but as far as morals and economics go in this country... it was founded with faith and unalienble rights granted by "natures god" in mind.. then it became the greatest country in the world. So until you show me another faith/moral that has done better to bolster up that nation, I'll stick with the before mentioned faith/morals any day of the week.[/quote]
I don't know. Maybe the Roman Empire was the greatest nation the world has ever seen. Also, Americans believe that the U.S. is the greatest country in the world, and we're told that over and over by other Americans. I love my country, mostly because I am free to believe whatever I want. That is what makes it great. To claim that it is great because it is Christian or based on religion is specious logic.
Dallas PUA
The Pickup Artist Playground
Economic and women.
by Guest » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:42 pm
[QUOTE=Rhody;35517]I didn't say that God is blasphemy; I said that CLAIMING TO HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS is ALMOST blasphemy. I was ambiguous on purpose. I choose my words carefully, but people keep reading between the lines, adding their inferences, and jumping to conclusions.[/QUOTE]
So you weren't inferring that religions' views regarding a God who controls everything and everything is done in his time were, "claiming to have all the answers."?
As for the "ALMOST" part: regardless of you inserting "almost" in there, the fact that you are, in my opinion, [QUOTE=Webster]showing contempt orlack of reverence for God [/QUOTE] signifies to me that the definition of blasphemy fits your comments. Why do I think you are showing contempt or irreverence? Well let's just say that usually when people call others "arrogant", or any names for that matter, they usually harbor some sort of resentment towards the topic being discussed.. i.e. religion. Just because you put, almost, into the conversion, it doesn't change the fact that it seems very likely that you have something against religions and views many express... i.e. an omnipotent god(s).
Feel free to correct me if the above was not what you were in fact talking about regarding, "claiming to have all the answers." Perhaps I misread or understood something, or as you say, read between the lines wrongly.
[QUOTE]
I don't know. Maybe the Roman Empire was the greatest nation the world has ever seen. Also, Americans believe that the U.S. is the greatest country in the world, and we're told that over and over by other Americans. I love my country, mostly because I am free to believe whatever I want. That is what makes it great. To claim that it is great because it is Christian or based on religion is specious logic.[/QUOTE]
Care to elaborate on why it's "specious" or is this one of those times I am to "read between the lines"?
I'll assume that, since you did not expound on this at all, I am free to read between the lines and express a point.
That's fine if you think the Roman empire was the greatest, so be it, it doesn't change the fact that America is on the same level regardless of where you think the country fits exactly in the pecking order. America is up there, and it just so happens to be the only one still in existence. Now, if you think another country that is thriving today is greater, then that is a different story.
[QUOTE=Ye Olde Declaration of the Independence]We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are [B]created[/B] equal, that they are [B]endowed by their Creator[/B] with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. [/QUOTE]
The fact that religious people founded this country with God given rights says it all. You say you love your freedom, and that's fine too. But your freedom was given to you by natures God and was PROTECTED by a religious people, Are you arguing that, this logic is "specious"?
For future reference, if you intend to say I am being illogical or some other form of "You're wrong" please explain why you think so, as not doing so tends to make me want to read between the lines.
So you weren't inferring that religions' views regarding a God who controls everything and everything is done in his time were, "claiming to have all the answers."?
As for the "ALMOST" part: regardless of you inserting "almost" in there, the fact that you are, in my opinion, [QUOTE=Webster]showing contempt orlack of reverence for God [/QUOTE] signifies to me that the definition of blasphemy fits your comments. Why do I think you are showing contempt or irreverence? Well let's just say that usually when people call others "arrogant", or any names for that matter, they usually harbor some sort of resentment towards the topic being discussed.. i.e. religion. Just because you put, almost, into the conversion, it doesn't change the fact that it seems very likely that you have something against religions and views many express... i.e. an omnipotent god(s).
Feel free to correct me if the above was not what you were in fact talking about regarding, "claiming to have all the answers." Perhaps I misread or understood something, or as you say, read between the lines wrongly.
[QUOTE]
I don't know. Maybe the Roman Empire was the greatest nation the world has ever seen. Also, Americans believe that the U.S. is the greatest country in the world, and we're told that over and over by other Americans. I love my country, mostly because I am free to believe whatever I want. That is what makes it great. To claim that it is great because it is Christian or based on religion is specious logic.[/QUOTE]
Care to elaborate on why it's "specious" or is this one of those times I am to "read between the lines"?
I'll assume that, since you did not expound on this at all, I am free to read between the lines and express a point.
That's fine if you think the Roman empire was the greatest, so be it, it doesn't change the fact that America is on the same level regardless of where you think the country fits exactly in the pecking order. America is up there, and it just so happens to be the only one still in existence. Now, if you think another country that is thriving today is greater, then that is a different story.
[QUOTE=Ye Olde Declaration of the Independence]We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are [B]created[/B] equal, that they are [B]endowed by their Creator[/B] with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. [/QUOTE]
The fact that religious people founded this country with God given rights says it all. You say you love your freedom, and that's fine too. But your freedom was given to you by natures God and was PROTECTED by a religious people, Are you arguing that, this logic is "specious"?
For future reference, if you intend to say I am being illogical or some other form of "You're wrong" please explain why you think so, as not doing so tends to make me want to read between the lines.
- Guest
by Guest » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:57 pm
This thread was fun for a while, and dialogue is a good thing.
However for believers, as for all people of good will, the only path that can lead to peace and fraternity is respect for the convictions and religious practices of others.
In my opinion, what gave Europeean and American culture its foundation — the search for God and the readiness to listen to him — remains today the basis of any genuine culture.
Nothing wrong with secular science. But it is through the search for God that the secular sciences take on their importance.
At this moment in history, when cultures continue to cross paths more frequently, I am firmly convinced that a new reflection on the true meaning and importance of secularism is now necessary.
While I believe very strongly in the separation between church and state to ensure the religious freedom of the citizens and the responsibility of the state toward those citizens, religion surely has a role for the formation of conscience and the creation of a basic ethical consensus in society.
For anyone who doesn't consider themselves religious, I would suggest a positive, rather than a negative secularism. Religion should not be considered a danger to society, but an asset.
All the best.
However for believers, as for all people of good will, the only path that can lead to peace and fraternity is respect for the convictions and religious practices of others.
In my opinion, what gave Europeean and American culture its foundation — the search for God and the readiness to listen to him — remains today the basis of any genuine culture.
Nothing wrong with secular science. But it is through the search for God that the secular sciences take on their importance.
At this moment in history, when cultures continue to cross paths more frequently, I am firmly convinced that a new reflection on the true meaning and importance of secularism is now necessary.
While I believe very strongly in the separation between church and state to ensure the religious freedom of the citizens and the responsibility of the state toward those citizens, religion surely has a role for the formation of conscience and the creation of a basic ethical consensus in society.
For anyone who doesn't consider themselves religious, I would suggest a positive, rather than a negative secularism. Religion should not be considered a danger to society, but an asset.
All the best.
- Guest
by Guest » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:30 pm
[QUOTE=Muk;35520]dunno...That sand box in the East is pretty jacked up right now because of religion.
Or maybe it's more the lack of respect for other's religion?[/QUOTE]
Maybe you can answer a question I have been having lately. You see, my friend and I were having this discussion...
Why is it that when there is a muslim majority in power things become oppressive, inequal, poversh and violent?
Or maybe it's more the lack of respect for other's religion?[/QUOTE]
Maybe you can answer a question I have been having lately. You see, my friend and I were having this discussion...
Why is it that when there is a muslim majority in power things become oppressive, inequal, poversh and violent?
- Guest
by Guest » Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:36 pm
*shrugs* dunno I'm american born and raised (as are my parents and theirs) just thought i'd point that out so that you aren't thinking I'm an immigrant or something. My guess is that they're really serious about islam and their traditions and there is always someone disrespecting them and telling them that they have to be like them. One difference between islam & christianity is that there is no "turn the other cheek" islam doesn't teach you to be anyone's bitch. As far as the muslims vs jews conflict, I think it's a mutual lack of respect.
That's just my guess.
That's just my guess.
- Guest
by Guest » Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:27 pm
[QUOTE=Finesse;35518]So you weren't inferring that religions' views regarding a God who controls everything and everything is done in his time were, "claiming to have all the answers."?
As for the "ALMOST" part: regardless of you inserting "almost" in there, the fact that you are, in my opinion, signifies to me that the definition of blasphemy fits your comments. Why do I think you are showing contempt or irreverence? Well let's just say that usually when people call others "arrogant", or any names for that matter, they usually harbor some sort of resentment towards the topic being discussed.. i.e. religion. Just because you put, almost, into the conversion, it doesn't change the fact that it seems very likely that you have something against religions and views many express... i.e. an omnipotent god(s).
Feel free to correct me if the above was not what you were in fact talking about regarding, "claiming to have all the answers." Perhaps I misread or understood something, or as you say, read between the lines wrongly.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, you got it wrong. I think people, human people, who claim to have all the answers are arrogant and hold themselves too close to the god they serve. There's no need to analyze it any further. I gave you the WHOLE THING. I'm not talking about religion in general or any one religion in its entirety. I'm talking about a subset of people who claim to have all the answers. That's it. There's no need to make a mountain out of a molehill.
I was talking about my own personal belief about the Church of I Don't Know. I was expressing myself. There's no need to get defensive.
[quote]Care to elaborate on why it's "specious" or is this one of those times I am to "read between the lines"?
I'll assume that, since you did not expound on this at all, I am free to read between the lines and express a point.[/quote]
Sure. The country was founded by a handful of god-fearing Euros. What this country is today became what it is on the backs of millions and millions of people, native born and immigrant, Christian and Buddhist, African and Chinese, Minister and scientist, teacher and preacher, construction worker and stripper.
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore, Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: I lift my lamp beside the golden door.?
—Lazarus, Emma
Just because the word "creator" appears in the Declaration of Independence, that doesn't mean the only source of this country's greatness is the fact that it was founded for the pursuit of God. After all, we don't tell a Buddhist or Muslim or atheist that he's welcome to pursue his freedom in this country as long as he recognizes that this country is great because of the Christian god. Are we really having this conversation? This logic is way too narrowly focused and antequated.
[quote]That's fine if you think the Roman empire was the greatest, so be it, it doesn't change the fact that America is on the same level regardless of where you think the country fits exactly in the pecking order. America is up there, and it just so happens to be the only one still in existence. Now, if you think another country that is thriving today is greater, then that is a different story.[/quote]
I'm saying great empires were built by pagans. The logic of great=religious is specious.
[quote]The fact that religious people founded this country with God given rights says it all.[/quote]
No, it doesn't.
[quote]You say you love your freedom, and that's fine too. But your freedom was given to you by natures God and was PROTECTED by a religious people, Are you arguing that, this logic is "specious"?
For future reference, if you intend to say I am being illogical or some other form of "You're wrong" please explain why you think so, as not doing so tends to make me want to read between the lines.[/quote]
All I have to do is come up with one good person who helps to make this country great, and also happens to be an atheist or a Buddhist or Agnostic or a Scientologist, and I have shown that your logic is fatally flawed.
This country was founded by like-minded people who wanted to practice their religion freely. They saw the importance of all people having that same freedom regardless of their religion. Now, they were short-sighted and assumed all people believe in a creator. That's the thing about humans, they don't know everything, but I love them for all their flaws. Just the same, that purpose has been carried out up until today, and I hope that never changes.
As for the "ALMOST" part: regardless of you inserting "almost" in there, the fact that you are, in my opinion, signifies to me that the definition of blasphemy fits your comments. Why do I think you are showing contempt or irreverence? Well let's just say that usually when people call others "arrogant", or any names for that matter, they usually harbor some sort of resentment towards the topic being discussed.. i.e. religion. Just because you put, almost, into the conversion, it doesn't change the fact that it seems very likely that you have something against religions and views many express... i.e. an omnipotent god(s).
Feel free to correct me if the above was not what you were in fact talking about regarding, "claiming to have all the answers." Perhaps I misread or understood something, or as you say, read between the lines wrongly.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, you got it wrong. I think people, human people, who claim to have all the answers are arrogant and hold themselves too close to the god they serve. There's no need to analyze it any further. I gave you the WHOLE THING. I'm not talking about religion in general or any one religion in its entirety. I'm talking about a subset of people who claim to have all the answers. That's it. There's no need to make a mountain out of a molehill.
I was talking about my own personal belief about the Church of I Don't Know. I was expressing myself. There's no need to get defensive.
[quote]Care to elaborate on why it's "specious" or is this one of those times I am to "read between the lines"?
I'll assume that, since you did not expound on this at all, I am free to read between the lines and express a point.[/quote]
Sure. The country was founded by a handful of god-fearing Euros. What this country is today became what it is on the backs of millions and millions of people, native born and immigrant, Christian and Buddhist, African and Chinese, Minister and scientist, teacher and preacher, construction worker and stripper.
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore, Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: I lift my lamp beside the golden door.?
—Lazarus, Emma
Just because the word "creator" appears in the Declaration of Independence, that doesn't mean the only source of this country's greatness is the fact that it was founded for the pursuit of God. After all, we don't tell a Buddhist or Muslim or atheist that he's welcome to pursue his freedom in this country as long as he recognizes that this country is great because of the Christian god. Are we really having this conversation? This logic is way too narrowly focused and antequated.
[quote]That's fine if you think the Roman empire was the greatest, so be it, it doesn't change the fact that America is on the same level regardless of where you think the country fits exactly in the pecking order. America is up there, and it just so happens to be the only one still in existence. Now, if you think another country that is thriving today is greater, then that is a different story.[/quote]
I'm saying great empires were built by pagans. The logic of great=religious is specious.
[quote]The fact that religious people founded this country with God given rights says it all.[/quote]
No, it doesn't.
[quote]You say you love your freedom, and that's fine too. But your freedom was given to you by natures God and was PROTECTED by a religious people, Are you arguing that, this logic is "specious"?
For future reference, if you intend to say I am being illogical or some other form of "You're wrong" please explain why you think so, as not doing so tends to make me want to read between the lines.[/quote]
All I have to do is come up with one good person who helps to make this country great, and also happens to be an atheist or a Buddhist or Agnostic or a Scientologist, and I have shown that your logic is fatally flawed.
This country was founded by like-minded people who wanted to practice their religion freely. They saw the importance of all people having that same freedom regardless of their religion. Now, they were short-sighted and assumed all people believe in a creator. That's the thing about humans, they don't know everything, but I love them for all their flaws. Just the same, that purpose has been carried out up until today, and I hope that never changes.
- Guest
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests