Entourage: The Importance and Qualities of a good Wing

[Guest]

When hitting the town, having trusted friends is a key component of having a killer night. Going out is a social activity, and is bet done when not alone. Really, who wants to be the lone guy in the place, staring into his beer? Now, this isn't to say that you shouldn't ever go out by yourself. Not at all. Very few people do, unless they are out of town on a business trip. Here are a few things that a crew provides you with.

[B]Social proof[/B]
Introduced into the public consciousness mainly by Robert Cialdini's book Influence, social proof deals with the “others are doing it, so it must be OK” line of thought. It's also termed the “bandwagon effect.”
A cool group of friends lets others in the place know that you have friends, and they are decent individuals. People tend to gravitate to those most like themselves, so your group says a lot about you.
It also says that at least a few people found you worth hanging out with.

Remember, people tend to follow trends, and have pack instincts. Belonging is a HUGE factor in psychology. If your a person that belongs with an elite group, that communicates value to prospective mates, or rivals. Women have much more finely tuned social radars then do men, as well as “flocking” instincts. Men are much more likely to go it on their own, or break with the pack. Women will rarely do this. Social proof is a great way to help to win over a girl's friends, and let them “allow” you to separate her from the pack.

[B]Help with obstacles[/B]
The best wingman for men is a woman. Remember that always. A woman can communicate and help you out in ways that your buddies can't. In fact, there is a business called Wingwomen, that charges for such a service! Likewise, for a woman out on the town, the best wing is a man. This is also key, as women rarely approach directly. Sure, they may bump into you, or put themselves in close proximity to you, but seldom do they open the conversation. A guy friend, can introduce you to that guy you have your eye on over at the pool table, no problem.

A good wing, of either gender, can help to win over friends, and keep the non-interested parties at bay, so you have time to make a connection. Girls are much more prone to “blocking” than men are, but guys aren't immune to it either. Usually, we just let a guy have at it, then bust on him forever for his bad choice. Girls tend to prevent the situation entirely.

[B][U]Things to avoid in your entourage[/U][/B]

[B]1. Pessimists need not apply.[/B]
Few things are worse than hitting the town with Negative Ned or Nancy. They always complain about venues, drink prices, when to get there, when to leave, other people in the place, and the music. You name it, and they will find a way to whine and complain about it. Before long, you start contemplating hitting them over the head with a bottle of champagne to shut them up and end the misery, or sneaking away, and pretend you got separated. Your better off going alone than with this person.

[B]2. Avoid the Know It All[/B]
In every group, they tends to be a person who wants to be seen as all wise, and boss everyone around, and can't stand when they can't get their way. They want it their way, and they want it NOW. They always act like their suggestion for venue, time to arrive, are the only way to go. I mean, you MUST be an idiot to disagree with them. Again, avoid this person at all costs.

[B]3. Leave the Rehab Clinic candidates at home.[/B]
In many groups, there is a person who doesn't know when to say enough. Often the group will have to look after this person, as they drink way too much, and have the group's night ruined. Even better, this person thinks their OK to drive, even when they are WAYYYY to far gone. This leaves someone in the group, to play parent, lest the police do it for them.

[B]4. No c**k blockers.[/B]
This goes more towards the ladies reading this, than the men. Some women are just unhappy, or insecure, and will blow up their friend's chances, just to make themselves feel more powerful, or better about themselves. This is a destructive behavior in the long run. This is different from truly protecting your friends from making a regrettable choice.

[B]5. No angry drunks.[/B]
This one is for the guys! Everyone knows THAT guy, who turns the Mr. Hyde corner after a few cold ones. He may be a normal guy when sober, or an all around douche anyways. Leave this dude at home. If he gets in a fight, it's an obligation as a friend to back him up if his mouth runs wild. Friendship does only go so far. So unless your ok with the prospect of sitting in a cell overnight for this guy, lose his number for nights on the town.


[B]Are there any other type of people you should avoid? Leave a comment with your thoughts!
[/B]

[Guest]

I've said it once, twice, and three times...having wings is TOTALLY overrated. In all honesty, I've only seen two wings that were actually synergistic with each other: Lion and playercool. That's it. I have never seen any other wings work as well, as symbiotically, or as fairly as I've seen those two guys work.

Without naming names, but over the years I've had several guys on this board, and on DallasPUA and Dallas Meet-Up, trample my sets. Many, many times right in front of my face and with no reason...seriously, it's happened with lone wolves that I've approached. Some of these guys are active and some of them no longer. Conversely, I KNOW, for a fact, that I have trampled other people's sets as well...sometimes knowingly, sometimes unknowingly. That's just par for the course.

When I approach a set, it is MY SET. I know based on the group size, the positioning of the set, and all of the other factors that occur in any approach to know which sets I can handle and which I cannot. If you see me running a 3 set, it's because I know I can run it...alone and without help. It is MY SET, find our own OR wait until I leave.

Having said that, having wings with you in the venue is a great thing. It provides social proof when you do hook, it provides a social backstop that prevents you from getting too far out of state, and it provides you with people to hang out with while you're not in set. And, it's fun to roll in packs.

My philosophy is that once you approach a set, you do so alone and with no help. You want to talk about impressive? You roll up to a 3 set, alone, don't mention your buddies unless they ask. Once you hooked one, THEN introduce them to your friends. They'll be impressed that you didn't use your friends as a crutch to meet some girls. I think social proof as a mechanism for sparking attraction is overrated, it should be used to pour gasoline on that spark. Get her to like YOU, then show her that everyone else does as well. She'll feel better about the decision she just made about a complete stranger...she'll think: "wow, if all of these people like him, then I must be right about my intuition about him!!! Man, I want to suck his cock while I ride a dildo while he's beating me with a flog..."

Yeah buddy!!!

[Guest]

For optimum results travel with one wing only. 3 girls never go and fuck 3 guys but 2 girls will go fuck 2 guys.

Wings never do as intended. They don't help with the obstacle. More than one wing is detrimental. What a good wing does is share in the glory when you find 2 ladies unescorted by gentlemen. You take one, he takes one and you make it happen. Anything other than one wing and you're just hanging with your boys.

If you are in a big group, you need to have one designated wing in that group. If you introduce Sally Jo and her friend Susie Jo to one wing you will have a much higher chance of an SNL. If you introduce her to all the other knuckleheads and let them pounce it out you may as well say goodbye to her.

For real success (tail) travel solo or with one wing. To have fun travel with a big group.

Traveling with a non-PUA can produce stellar results. Everyone in the game wants to be Maverick, nobody wants to be Goose.

[Guest]

I'll throw this out there -

In my experience one of the WORST places to meet girls is at a bar. Why do something that's 10x harder than it has to be? You see girls around all the time, everywhere you go. Talk to them then, and man it's shooting fish in a barrel in comparison.

The problem with bars is that a lot of girls go there with a bunch of friends to look pretty and shoot guys down, like as an ego trip. Talk to enough girls at the bar and you'll probably find one or two each night that would go home with you, but a lot of times you'll be hogging.

OR, worse yet, you'll be so hammered, you wake up next to what you THOUGHT was much hotter at the time and you vomit in your mouth as you roll over to see what the fuck you fucked........or so i hear.

Anyways, if you're looking for a one nighter, I hate to say this but try the internet. Not my bag though so no more comments on the online dating thing.

If you must go to a bar, go early before you're drunk. Talking to a girl when sober has its merits. Or, find the really really drunk one at the end of the night, staggering on the street being loud.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=grimm1111;35489]I'll throw this out there -

In my experience one of the WORST places to meet girls is at a bar. Why do something that's 10x harder than it has to be? You see girls around all the time, everywhere you go. Talk to them then, and man it's shooting fish in a barrel in comparison.

The problem with bars is that a lot of girls go there with a bunch of friends to look pretty and shoot guys down, like as an ego trip. Talk to enough girls at the bar and you'll probably find one or two each night that would go home with you, but a lot of times you'll be hogging.

OR, worse yet, you'll be so hammered, you wake up next to what you THOUGHT was much hotter at the time and you vomit in your mouth as you roll over to see what the fuck you fucked........or so i hear.

Anyways, if you're looking for a one nighter, I hate to say this but try the internet. Not my bag though so no more comments on the online dating thing.

If you must go to a bar, go early before you're drunk. Talking to a girl when sober has its merits. Or, find the really really drunk one at the end of the night, staggering on the street being loud.[/QUOTE]


GENERALLY, I agree with you. If you roll into an Uptown bar/club on a Friday or Saturday night, then you'll find that these girls are dressed up to get hit on and then to say 'no.' Ego boosts abound. But, what of during the week? That's a totally different dynamic. During these times, girls think totally differently. In their mind, they are just hanging out and not trying to get the attention that they seek on the 'prime nights.' And, that's when you have the best shot of scooping them up.

It's the ultimate form of indirect game. The girls are not dressed up, it's not a 'prime night,' they're probably with co-workers or close friends. Their guard is 100% down. They're not focused on meeting someone because they think that the week is off limits to advances from men. These are the times you can shine. It is the perfect situation for you to swoop in and Game the fuck out of her.

The same holds true for dive bars and hole-in-the-wall venues. If you go to any of those places any day of the week, then you'll find that it's like shooting fish in a barrell. Unfortunately, these times and locations are not usually target rich (you're lucky to find 2 sets worth approaching and they're so intimate that you can usually only approach one or two before people pick-up on what you're doing).

The point is this: go to places, at times where it is counter-intuitive to run Game. Any time I roll into any of these venues, or times, I have zero competition. The entire venue becomes my set and it's up to me to create something. I control the interaction, I hold the cards. I approach from a position of power because there is no one in there like me. So, before I approach, I've got the advantage. Then throw in some tight Game and you've got a recipe for crazy success.

But, change that dynamic and put me in Uptown, or any packed venue, at 10:30 on a Saturday night and I'm pretty well toast. Not because of the quality of my Game, but because there are so many other options besides me. If you're hooking at these times, in these venues, chances are that she's a common stock pig OR you just met a chick that you have geniune connection with. So, when you postulate that you've got a potential Coyote Ugly on your hands the next day, I agree with you.

It all comes down to competition and differentiation. In that sense, Grimm, I think you're right about sarging everywhere. Seriously, you see a chick in the book store right? How many guys in there do you think can actually lay down some solid Game? Probably none. Change the venue to a bar/club during 'prime time' and you'll see at least 5 - 10 guys that can lay down some solid Game. When there are 5 - 10 other shiny new objects around, then you don't seem quite so valuable and rare.

[Guest]

The worst place to meet a girl, if you want a quality girlfriend, is at a bar. The best place to meet a girl if you want a blowjay is at a bar.

[Guest]

I hadn't thought about dive bars on weeknights, actually I agree with you on that, I just don't do it anymore cause I'm a workaholic these days. Even on a saturday if you get there early before everyone else, you get kind of the same effect.

I'm honestly not really trolling around for a 7 to give me a one-timer in the truck so i can't really disagree with the lion either. Not that you are, but for the sake of arguement about bars. see even that seems like too much work, if all I wanted was a random blowjob and I don't care who she is, I'd probably just pay for it.

[Guest]

There's a scene in Good Will Hunting that applies to this thread:

"You people you spend all of this money on these books, you surround yourself with all of these books and they're the wrong fucking books."

You can meet bad ass women in bars. Cool chicks, with value, go to bars too you know? The problem is that we tend to go to the wrong fucking bars, at the wrong times, in the wrong parts of town.

If you roll into Sherlocks, you need to understand that you're going to be interacting with women that are, well, trashy. These girls aren't all that hot, they're not especially successful, but they're very friendly and open to talking with strange men. If that's what you want, then so be it.

If you roll into Black Friar (or Uptown in general), you need to understand that you're going to be interacting with women that are snobby, cliquey, pretentious, and probably pretty fucking hot. If you can tolerate the attitude, then so be it.

Both venues are target rich and convenient in the sense that you can spend the entire night there mining chicks if you so desire. So, in that sense, they're easy venues and automatically pop into mind because there's so little work in creating a target rich environment. You go there, the chicks are there, then you stick around and run some Game.

Every venue has a personality, which varies based on the day and time of day. So, if that venue doesn't have a personality that fits into what it is that you want then don't go to them. If the venue attracts people with the type of person you don't like then don't go to them.

Frankly, I'm sick of the Uptown and Sherlocks circuit. That's all we've ever done, Ft Worth once or twice, Cowboy's a few times. But, usually the Uptown and Sherlocks circuit...yawn. These are very obviously the wrong places because: 1) many of us don't like these places so we don't bother to sarge when we're there...if we even show up and 2) even if we do like these places we still don't sarge. The common theme is that we don't fucking sarge because we keep getting the same results because we keep going to the same fucking places and talking to women with essentially the same personality (remember, that bar has a personality and it attracts the same type of people over and over again). And, what's more, we don't like these girls. So, we just don't bother.

You guys say you can't meet women in a bar that are worth a damn. I say you're going to the wrong fucking places...

[Guest]

BR, I truly believe that the reason we don't Sarge when we go out is because game becomes secondary. I know that when we go out in a group, we typically stand around and shoot the shit, and I love it! I enjoy hanging out with you guys and meeting women takes the backburner.

For me, I'm not nearly as hungry as I was (if I ever was hungry) before. Quite frankly, my desire to game has been on a steady decline for many months (though my love for women have not changed) and that may contribute to why I don't approach.

I too believe that many of the other PUA's on this board feel the same way, so the intent when we go out is not to meet Sarge, but to just hang out.

Does this defeat the purpose of being in this community? Maybe so. But I can say that I've developed many friendships and I am a man of higher value because I gave a good group of friends.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Prodigy;35503]BR, I truly believe that the reason we don't Sarge when we go out is because game becomes secondary. I know that when we go out in a group, we typically stand around and shoot the shit, and I love it! I enjoy hanging out with you guys and meeting women takes the backburner.

For me, I'm not nearly as hungry as I was (if I ever was hungry) before. Quite frankly, my desire to game has been on a steady decline for many months (though my love for women have not changed) and that may contribute to why I don't approach.

I too believe that many of the other PUA's on this board feel the same way, so the intent when we go out is not to meet Sarge, but to just hang out.

Does this defeat the purpose of being in this community? Maybe so. But I can say that I've developed many friendships and I am a man of higher value because I gave a good group of friends.[/QUOTE]


Understood. But, why is it that Game becomes secondary? I remember a day when we would go out and all of us would sarge, even if we were in a big group. It's just what we did.

I think the reason it's become secondary is because we grow tired of dealing with the same bullshit from women over and over. Which, in my opinion, is a function of the fact that we roll into the same places and sarge the same type of women, the very women that we have grown tired of because of their predictability. When you pretty much know what's going to happen next, it takes the fun out of life.

I'll bet that if you decided to start hanging out in places outside of our worn out Uptown - Sherlocks circuit, then you'll find your desire to sarge grow because you're exposing yourself to new types of people.

It's the Law of Diminishing Returns. Pick your favorite food and commit to eating everyday for lunch and dinner. The first meal will be worth a ton to you, the second not so much, by the time you get to the 10th meal it's lost a lot of it's value and utility, eventually you'll reach a point where the meal possesses negative value (i.e. someone has to pay you to eat it). When you get to this point, substitute the meal for something else.