So I've been trying to apply all these new techniques and processes to my communications style with women. I have about 3 openers memorized that work well for me, and then I have about 3 DHV's. Among them, Mysteries ESP routine, 5 oceans, rings routine and 5 questions bet.
I'm hitting a real sticking point with conversation flow after my routine stack is exhausted. I really do try to listen to what the women are saying, but I do not often pick up on good threads that can lead to more conversation. I also feel that when this point in the interaction comes I turn back into "the question guy" which is a great DLV on my part. I hate that.
When I was doing the stylelife challenge, one of the missions was to think about things you want to convey and then to think of stories where you conveyed those qualities. I did this, but I have found it very hard to always guide the conversation to those points.
What do you guys recommend for this? When you reach this part of the interaction what do you do. Have you isolated and escalated before hitting this point?
Dallas PUA
The Pickup Artist Playground
Sticking Point: The Gift of Gab
9 posts
• Page 1 of 1
by Guest » Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:27 pm
Someone I recently listened to mentioned a couple of games that might help. He said to help you get in a more talkative state to hang with a buddy and do a word association game. You say a word, thenthey have to say the first word that comes to mind and back to you, etc. This will help you to springboard your thinking.
For something to talk about, he suggested playing MFK (Marry, F*ck, Kill) or the 5 questions game. Gives you something to pass the time and you can always go back to the MFK game later in the conversation.
David DeAngelo suggests picking up a people or cosmo magazine and reading for 10-15 min to see what's going on in the celeb world that she may be paying attention to. Example, today I read that Jesse James has been acused of cheating on Sandra Bullock. He didn't admit it but did say that he apologizes for his actions to his wife and family... etc. :)
Oh, btw, this is coming from a newbie, so take it for what it's worth.
For something to talk about, he suggested playing MFK (Marry, F*ck, Kill) or the 5 questions game. Gives you something to pass the time and you can always go back to the MFK game later in the conversation.
David DeAngelo suggests picking up a people or cosmo magazine and reading for 10-15 min to see what's going on in the celeb world that she may be paying attention to. Example, today I read that Jesse James has been acused of cheating on Sandra Bullock. He didn't admit it but did say that he apologizes for his actions to his wife and family... etc. :)
Oh, btw, this is coming from a newbie, so take it for what it's worth.
- Guest
by Guest » Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:23 am
Check out the Tactics section for some good conversation tips from Grimm. I think his suggestions are spot on.
When I first started, I had tons of routines, many of which you named. One of the things that I found was that when I was successful with a woman, I never got all the way through my routine stack. Never. Usually I'd be able to rattle off one or two and then she, or the group, would start having a conversation with me. Which is what you want. You want them to start investing in you by holding a conversation with you. So, to your question, yes. I've isolated and escalated before ever running a DHV routine or really ANY routines.
For the times that I was able to get through, or close to finished, with my stack without them starting to have more of a two way conversation with me, then I would simply eject from the set. Usually I'd cut out on a high note which would allow me the ability, albeit implict, to come back to the set without things being awkward. I was that funny guy that talked about whatever...so, I became part of the group.
Eventually, I just stopped forcing the interaction. I trimmed my routine stack to one or two and if I wasn't hooking by the end of them then I'd eject. You can always come back later.
My suggestion would be to stop focusing on running a stack. Jump into set, run a routine or two, make a funny observation of something going on, whatever. If you haven't hooked them within the first few minutes, then you're probably not going to hook them at all in this context. So, 'punish' them by removing persence from them. Make yourself scarce. Mostly likely what will happen is that while you're gone, a handful of douches will approach the girls and you'll be fresh in their minds so it makes you seem really fucking great after a while. When you do come back around, if they like you, they'll hook almost immediately.
As for subject matter, I can honestly tell you that I don't remember anything I talk about in set. Not because I don't care or because I'm too drunk but because it usually becomes very dynamic and multi-threaded. That's what you want. A light, fun conversation is Seinfeld-esque in nature. You basically talk about nothing. And, keep in mind, in a bar you want a light, fun conversation. Don't get heavy with your topics, just fun and superficial.
I would advise you to stay away from the Cosmo's and stuff of the world. Unless you preface it by making it clear that reading Cosmo is not a common occurrence in your life. Men are not supposed to know gossip and shit like that, we're supposed to make fun of girls for caring about that stuff. If it were me, I'd say something like this:
"So, the other day I was in the line at the grocery store and I picked the slowest fucking line as always...why is the line YOU pick always the slowest? Anyway, this little old lady was paying with penny's, nickels, dimes, and I think I saw her throw some lint in there too. So, to pass the time, I picked up a Cosmo and read an article about..."
A routine stack is not required and it's perfectly acceptable, and common, to eject from set if you feel the energy isn't right or it's heading down the wrong track. You can come back and try again OR just find another set.
When I first started, I had tons of routines, many of which you named. One of the things that I found was that when I was successful with a woman, I never got all the way through my routine stack. Never. Usually I'd be able to rattle off one or two and then she, or the group, would start having a conversation with me. Which is what you want. You want them to start investing in you by holding a conversation with you. So, to your question, yes. I've isolated and escalated before ever running a DHV routine or really ANY routines.
For the times that I was able to get through, or close to finished, with my stack without them starting to have more of a two way conversation with me, then I would simply eject from the set. Usually I'd cut out on a high note which would allow me the ability, albeit implict, to come back to the set without things being awkward. I was that funny guy that talked about whatever...so, I became part of the group.
Eventually, I just stopped forcing the interaction. I trimmed my routine stack to one or two and if I wasn't hooking by the end of them then I'd eject. You can always come back later.
My suggestion would be to stop focusing on running a stack. Jump into set, run a routine or two, make a funny observation of something going on, whatever. If you haven't hooked them within the first few minutes, then you're probably not going to hook them at all in this context. So, 'punish' them by removing persence from them. Make yourself scarce. Mostly likely what will happen is that while you're gone, a handful of douches will approach the girls and you'll be fresh in their minds so it makes you seem really fucking great after a while. When you do come back around, if they like you, they'll hook almost immediately.
As for subject matter, I can honestly tell you that I don't remember anything I talk about in set. Not because I don't care or because I'm too drunk but because it usually becomes very dynamic and multi-threaded. That's what you want. A light, fun conversation is Seinfeld-esque in nature. You basically talk about nothing. And, keep in mind, in a bar you want a light, fun conversation. Don't get heavy with your topics, just fun and superficial.
I would advise you to stay away from the Cosmo's and stuff of the world. Unless you preface it by making it clear that reading Cosmo is not a common occurrence in your life. Men are not supposed to know gossip and shit like that, we're supposed to make fun of girls for caring about that stuff. If it were me, I'd say something like this:
"So, the other day I was in the line at the grocery store and I picked the slowest fucking line as always...why is the line YOU pick always the slowest? Anyway, this little old lady was paying with penny's, nickels, dimes, and I think I saw her throw some lint in there too. So, to pass the time, I picked up a Cosmo and read an article about..."
A routine stack is not required and it's perfectly acceptable, and common, to eject from set if you feel the energy isn't right or it's heading down the wrong track. You can come back and try again OR just find another set.
- Guest
by Guest » Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:35 pm
[QUOTE=Bull Run;35298]I would advise you to stay away from the Cosmo's and stuff of the world. Unless you preface it by making it clear that reading Cosmo is not a common occurrence in your life. Men are not supposed to know gossip and shit like that, we're supposed to make fun of girls for caring about that stuff. If it were me, I'd say something like this:
"So, the other day I was in the line at the grocery store and I picked the slowest fucking line as always...why is the line YOU pick always the slowest? Anyway, this little old lady was paying with penny's, nickels, dimes, and I think I saw her throw some lint in there too. So, to pass the time, I picked up a Cosmo and read an article about..."[/QUOTE]
I disagree with this for a couple of reasons, and they are germain to this topic although they might be advanced for this topic.
As general advice, the main thing to learn through this process is that it doesn't matter what you talk about. Like BR said, talk about standing in line at the supermarket. The content doesn't matter at all. What matters is your subcommunication. That's the whole point of routines in the first place, they allow you to focus on your body language, voice tonality, eye contact, etc., rather than the words you're saying. If you find that you run out of things to say, it might be because the set isn't giving you anything in return and you're still trying to maintain the 90 percent in the 90/10 rule. That, by definition, means that you haven't hooked. The problem is not the content or the amount of content. You just haven't flipped that switch yet. It's just something you have to go through. I go through it a lot of the time because I don't sarge enough. One day, it will seem really easy and you'll know that the switch flipped and you have successfully internalized all that subcommunication: the smiling, the eye contact, the body rocking, the slow tempo, etc. The sets will start to give more. They'll test you. Then they won't want you to leave.
That being said, talking about what you read in Cosmo is just as good as talking about what toppings you like on your salad. You're learning to withstand social pressure, to start conversations with strangers, to appear unaffected by the expressions on their expectant faces.
On a more advanced level, talking about what you read in Cosmo invites a shit test, something that can be very instrumental in hooking a set. BR, you might disagree with me that a newbie should be inviting shit tests, but I think it goes along with the whole process of learning to withstand social pressure.
PUA: I was reading in Cosmo that--
HB(interrupting): You read Cosmo? What are you gay?
PUA(calmly with a sly smile): That's not the point of the story. Pay attention. So I was reading in Cosmo that 40% of women would cheat on their boyfriends with Brad Pitt.
That set would probably hook faster if you pass the shit test up front than if you avoid the shit test. It's part of the puzzle. What makes you stand out is not the content of what you're saying. There's nothing magical about "who lies more" or "jealous girlfriend." What makes you stand out is that you're not nervous around them, you don't cave when they test you, you can give as good as you get, conversation with you is easy and fun, and you could leave at any time (and that would be bad).
"So, the other day I was in the line at the grocery store and I picked the slowest fucking line as always...why is the line YOU pick always the slowest? Anyway, this little old lady was paying with penny's, nickels, dimes, and I think I saw her throw some lint in there too. So, to pass the time, I picked up a Cosmo and read an article about..."[/QUOTE]
I disagree with this for a couple of reasons, and they are germain to this topic although they might be advanced for this topic.
As general advice, the main thing to learn through this process is that it doesn't matter what you talk about. Like BR said, talk about standing in line at the supermarket. The content doesn't matter at all. What matters is your subcommunication. That's the whole point of routines in the first place, they allow you to focus on your body language, voice tonality, eye contact, etc., rather than the words you're saying. If you find that you run out of things to say, it might be because the set isn't giving you anything in return and you're still trying to maintain the 90 percent in the 90/10 rule. That, by definition, means that you haven't hooked. The problem is not the content or the amount of content. You just haven't flipped that switch yet. It's just something you have to go through. I go through it a lot of the time because I don't sarge enough. One day, it will seem really easy and you'll know that the switch flipped and you have successfully internalized all that subcommunication: the smiling, the eye contact, the body rocking, the slow tempo, etc. The sets will start to give more. They'll test you. Then they won't want you to leave.
That being said, talking about what you read in Cosmo is just as good as talking about what toppings you like on your salad. You're learning to withstand social pressure, to start conversations with strangers, to appear unaffected by the expressions on their expectant faces.
On a more advanced level, talking about what you read in Cosmo invites a shit test, something that can be very instrumental in hooking a set. BR, you might disagree with me that a newbie should be inviting shit tests, but I think it goes along with the whole process of learning to withstand social pressure.
PUA: I was reading in Cosmo that--
HB(interrupting): You read Cosmo? What are you gay?
PUA(calmly with a sly smile): That's not the point of the story. Pay attention. So I was reading in Cosmo that 40% of women would cheat on their boyfriends with Brad Pitt.
That set would probably hook faster if you pass the shit test up front than if you avoid the shit test. It's part of the puzzle. What makes you stand out is not the content of what you're saying. There's nothing magical about "who lies more" or "jealous girlfriend." What makes you stand out is that you're not nervous around them, you don't cave when they test you, you can give as good as you get, conversation with you is easy and fun, and you could leave at any time (and that would be bad).
- Guest
by Guest » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:48 pm
[QUOTE=Dead Poet;35309]I think my suggestion was slightly misinterpreted. I wasn't suggesting telling the women that you read it in cosmo, you're just as likely to have seen it on TMZ or Yahoo! or even Facebook. :)[/QUOTE]
I think BR knew what you meant. If I interpreted his post correctly, his point was that men aren't supposed to know about celebrety gossip, so if you start talking about things like that use a setup that makes it seem normal. Reading about it on facebook would be such a setup, I guess.
My opinion was to go ahead and talk about that stuff and get used to the social pressure, even if it brings on a shit test. If you own up to it confidently and unapologetically, it's not going to matter. In fact, it might help.
I think BR knew what you meant. If I interpreted his post correctly, his point was that men aren't supposed to know about celebrety gossip, so if you start talking about things like that use a setup that makes it seem normal. Reading about it on facebook would be such a setup, I guess.
My opinion was to go ahead and talk about that stuff and get used to the social pressure, even if it brings on a shit test. If you own up to it confidently and unapologetically, it's not going to matter. In fact, it might help.
- Guest
by Guest » Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:13 am
[QUOTE=Rhody;35317]
My opinion was to go ahead and talk about that stuff and get used to the social pressure, even if it brings on a shit test. If you own up to it confidently and unapologetically, it's not going to matter. In fact, it might help.[/QUOTE]
The other night my buddy was running game on a stripper and they got on the subject of women's designer fashion products. Much like "Cosmo", this topic wasn't something men were supposed to know a lot about. He was well versed in recognizing some of these brands and mentioned that her watch was an expensive Gucci.
And you guessed it, right after he said that, she issued her first "shit test". She asked "why do you know so much about all of this girl stuff"?
As an observer, I'd say she was clearly impressed and he scored points by his knowledge on the topic and how he handled him self when she put him on the spot with her question.
My opinion was to go ahead and talk about that stuff and get used to the social pressure, even if it brings on a shit test. If you own up to it confidently and unapologetically, it's not going to matter. In fact, it might help.[/QUOTE]
The other night my buddy was running game on a stripper and they got on the subject of women's designer fashion products. Much like "Cosmo", this topic wasn't something men were supposed to know a lot about. He was well versed in recognizing some of these brands and mentioned that her watch was an expensive Gucci.
And you guessed it, right after he said that, she issued her first "shit test". She asked "why do you know so much about all of this girl stuff"?
As an observer, I'd say she was clearly impressed and he scored points by his knowledge on the topic and how he handled him self when she put him on the spot with her question.
- Guest
by Guest » Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:15 am
[QUOTE=UncleHOwie;35359]The other night my buddy was running game on a stripper and they got on the subject of women's designer fashion products. Much like "Cosmo", this topic wasn't something men were supposed to know a lot about. He was well versed in recognizing some of these brands and mentioned that her watch was an expensive Gucci.
And you guessed it, right after he said that, she issued her first "shit test". She asked "why do you know so much about all of this girl stuff"?
As an observer, I'd say she was clearly impressed and he scored points by his knowledge on the topic and how he handled him self when she put him on the spot with her question.[/QUOTE]
Maybe I should un-delete "The History of Women's Hair" thread that Boston douche cookie posted here...lol
And you guessed it, right after he said that, she issued her first "shit test". She asked "why do you know so much about all of this girl stuff"?
As an observer, I'd say she was clearly impressed and he scored points by his knowledge on the topic and how he handled him self when she put him on the spot with her question.[/QUOTE]
Maybe I should un-delete "The History of Women's Hair" thread that Boston douche cookie posted here...lol
- Guest
9 posts
• Page 1 of 1
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests