Train with Kosmo and Joe D. VH1 Pickup Artist

[Guest]

Yeah but I still want to bang a perfect 10! ;-) Somebody told me those only exist in magazines.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Kaisen;34161]other than Peacocking like Mystery which I wouldn't recommend, everything I have ever read seems like a knock off of the MM to me. except for Ross Jefferies stuff but he is a creepy MF. I think most guy's just word it a little different or have a few more spins on the same stuff. I'm curious, what do you guy's see different than MM/Neil Strauss methods with other methods out there? Maybe I haven't been introduced to them yet.[/QUOTE]

I think there are guys out there who are very different from MM. RSD (Tyler Durden) teaches mostly inner game now. Charisma Science (Juggler) goes directly against MM in many ways. In fact, I love the fun banter aspects of RSD and the challenging attitude of Charisma Science.

I was texting with this girl and I said, "I do love getting sweaty doing something enjoyable and satisfying." She replied, "and do you tolerate moist heat well?" I said, "I've never had a problem, although there was an incident with eucalyptus oil." After I sent it I said to myself, that was so Juggler.

I never find myself saying, that was so Mystery. MM is a structure, not a style.

Neil Strauss is the ultimate pickup student. He learned from everybody. Unfortunately, his teachings are very much directed at the newbie.

[Guest]

I agree that a great personality, along with several other things other than looks are a must for a GF to have. But, picking up a HB 7 with a great personality, down to earth, etc... is way different and WAY easier than PU a HB9/10 that EVERY guy in the club would love to FC. And, they state that HB10's are just as sweet as sub HB8's to a guy with superior game. Just a few examples that we all know. Who could do any of these?

1. NC Dalene Curtis, Playmate of the Year
2. Steal a chick from a Celebrity (Scott Baio) right in front of him with students watching
3. FC,date a Rocker Chick like Lisa Leveridge
4. all done before they were Famous PUA's

Just a small few of hundreds of examples these guys can not just say but prove. Not trying to sound negative or attacking to anyone. I just think the game and HB scale has been WAY downgraded since their methods of training were out-of-date so to speak is all.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Kaisen;34170]I agree that a great personality, along with several other things other than looks are a must for a GF to have. But, picking up a HB 7 with a great personality, down to earth, etc... is way different and WAY easier than PU a HB9/10 that EVERY guy in the club would love to FC. And, they state that HB10's are just as sweet as sub HB8's to a guy with superior game. Just a few examples that we all know. Who could do any of these?

1. NC Dalene Curtis, Playmate of the Year
2. Steal a chick from a Celebrity (Scott Baio) right in front of him with students watching
3. FC,date a Rocker Chick like Lisa Leveridge
4. all done before they were Famous PUA's

Just a small few of hundreds of examples these guys can not just say but prove. Not trying to sound negative or attacking to anyone. I just think the game and HB scale has been WAY downgraded since their methods of training were out-of-date so to speak is all.[/QUOTE]

It also depends on location, location, location. They put themselves in
a. the most populated areas by hotties (LA, Vegas, etc) and
b. the hottest clubs around
of course they are going to have more opportunities to hit on playmates, celebrities (and their women), or rock stars. Not saying it can't be done in Dallas, but it's much less likely. (Oh, and really? Scott Bao is a celeb?) :p

Now, I should say that I have NOTHING agains MM at all. I just don't think that we should put it on the pedestal some people do.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Kaisen;34170]I agree that a great personality, along with several other things other than looks are a must for a GF to have. But, picking up a HB 7 with a great personality, down to earth, etc... is way different and WAY easier than PU a HB9/10 that EVERY guy in the club would love to FC. And, they state that HB10's are just as sweet as sub HB8's to a guy with superior game. Just a few examples that we all know. Who could do any of these?

1. NC Dalene Curtis, Playmate of the Year
2. Steal a chick from a Celebrity (Scott Baio) right in front of him with students watching
3. FC,date a Rocker Chick like Lisa Leveridge
4. all done before they were Famous PUA's

Just a small few of hundreds of examples these guys can not just say but prove. Not trying to sound negative or attacking to anyone. I just think the game and HB scale has been WAY downgraded since their methods of training were out-of-date so to speak is all.[/QUOTE]


I guess it's all a matter of your personal philosophy. If you automatically give value to hot women then, yes, it's going to be harder to close them the hotter they get. That's how it works with 'value.' The more you want them, for whatever reason, the harder it is to get them.

So, if you put a ton of value of something that's not physical, I would contend that once you see said value it becomes harder for you to close this girl because she has now become more valuable and, as such, you want her more.

Personally, I remember one girl I was talking with who was an HB7 and I remember her telling me something that I put a large amount of value on with respect to women and then I remember that interaction becoming decidedly more difficult for me to pull off because I realized that I did like her and I didn't want to lose this one.

I also remember one time when I was hanging out with my neighbor and her HB9 (some would even say HB10) friend came over. After a few minutes of hanging out with her, I remember thinking she was basically worthless as a person other than her nice fun bags and pretty face. And, I recall that interaction becoming decidedly more easy because I could give two fucks what happened with her.

And, this is the point I'm trying to make.

Who's to say that any one of these guys really think the girl is an HB9/10? It's not up to us to judge that, it's up to them. It's possible that the girl was hot but for them she was easy to talk with OR she was just another pretty face with nothing else of any substance so he didn't really want her that badly.

If you're only concerned with how hot a girl is, then yes, the hotter they are the harder it is to bed them. But, if you're more concerned with other aspects of their personality then guess what? Their beauty isn't as intimidating.

Finally, some guys just have flat out bad taste. It's very possible that these girls that you see your fellow PUAs pull are uber hot to them, but hideous to you. I'm sure they thought that you're hotties weren't all that either.

[Guest]

I'm with ya Howie me too. ha ha

I'm just saying that MM/Style methods are and were originally about a guy turning into a PUA that has Rockstar, Ceo, Famous person type of status with his ability of social skills. and therefor could land HB's normally that only the above mentioned people could.

The majority of the stuff I see now is a knock off or directed towards less than swimsuit model beauty. I mean take any form of direct game and go PU a Maxim model, Not happening unless your status is WAY above average in HER eyes the moment she see's you. I think most teaching's now are about getting you to grow the balls to talk to a girl you could have gotten with mainly just confidence anyways.

I have been in a social environment most of my life and love interacting with people. I have met alot of really hot ass girls that were very cool to guy's as long as they thought sex was not an option. Hence why indirect and under the radar works so well. I will have to say that Rockstar wifes and CEO wife/GF are very cool and submissive to their men and most of the time are classy,hot MF's. Of course this is all just my opinion

[Guest]

Oh boy another keyboard jockey convention! :-)

Please continue.

[Guest]

You could say that the first stuff with MM and Style were about picking up ultra hot chicks and now all of the stuff being taught is a watered down version of PU where they teach you just to approach and be yourself. I would agree with that assertion. But, I think that it was, like everything else, market driven.

If you read The Game you get the image of a man with little to no value turning into the world's greatest PUA. Well, I never thought of Style as having little to no value...I just think he didn't figure out how to talk with women. Consider the fact that he was a successful writer that was accustom to being around beautiful, famous people. That right there gives him more value than 95% of the guys that get in the Community. Going from being around and conversing with famous people to picking them up isn't a huge step at all.

Look at the people in his book. Virtually none of them were of 'high value' and Mystery was a walking novelty that could pull it off. So, it only holds that Style would become the best of the best. He had substantially more value as a man, he just needed a little bit of confidence, calibration, and insight into things like the art of conversation, leading women, and fashion.

The truth is that the industry started appealing to the average guy more and more with an air of more realistic results and outcomes. They stopped talking about picking up ultra hotties and started talking about just approaching attractive women.

I can't tell you how many newbies that just read MM and The Game and get here and have the most unrealistic expectations of what kind of woman they'll be able to attract. The PUA movement seems to have returned to it's roots, self-improvement and being a better man. What's wrong with simply instilling more confidence in men instead of feeding them some bullshit about picking up models and porn stars churned out by a false marketing machine with the sole purpose of making cash?

You say that everything is a watered down version of pulling hot chicks, but I say that the movement evolved into what it was always meant to be: teaching guys to take what value they have and leveraging it to attract women, instilling confidence, and giving them the, previously ridiculous and ambitious, goal of trying to increase their value so as to attract higher quality women.

Not everyone will be a rockstar, CEO, or famous. That's a false promise that the Community sold to way too many foolish people. But, everyone can be better, whatever that means for you specifically. It's about improvement from where you're at, not improvement to the status of Style or Mystery.

[Guest]

Not a keyboard jockey and trust me I am willing to look at anyones insight and opinions because they can only strengthen my beliefs or help to improve me in new areas. I could care less about the who has the biggest dick theory.

I just think there are to schools of thought which is cool. There is nothing wrong with opinions that differ. I think anyone who reads this will just have two ways of looking at it to make up there own mind. Which to me, is helpfull for everybody. To me it's a question of, if you were setting at a bar and you saw. 1. a guy that was no better looking than you with a swimsuit model for a GF and a whole circle of really cool friends or 2. a guy with a HB7 that 50% of the guys there could have as well as you or 50% of the chicks there are as hot. Who would you rather be? I think both are achievable if you are willing to put in the work. You can be rich,muscular,powerful if you want, the rest of it is up to what you want out of it. I say HB7 or what I would call slighty above average looking girls take very little extra effort if any to PU. and it's not pushing yourself to be better than just slightly average. But, That's my opinion.

BTW, I am not having a pissing contest with BR as some might think. I actually respect that you share your thoughts and have learned alot from your typings.

[Guest]

This is one of my thought's that has played out several times for me and close friends and it's this...If I date a woman that I think is really cool and I love her personality and she's just fun but in her mind do to my social skills,status,money or whatever it is she feels inferior. It will really happen if you get girl attention. She turns into a who's that girl? can i spend the night again (for a week straight)? why can't i go out with you and the guy's? Point is if your game is HB9 you better date HB8-10, cause if you date an HB7 she turns into a stalker that gets jealous very easy. To the point were your fun little awesome personality chick will turn into a girl you don't like much anymore. If your game is HB6 level than don't try to hit on a HB10 cause it's not going to happen. But you can improve your game.