BREAKTHROUGH IN FRAMING!!!

[Guest]

Just kidding!! But hey, since your here, go ahead and read below and tell me what you think. :)

I have been thinking a lot recently, about frames. A while back, I have done classes. If you have been to one of my classes, you have probably played the frame game I have come up with.

Well, based on that game, I have been thinking about one of the main ways that I typically frame, and use words and actions to enhance and produce results and the types of frames I want.

The process is sort of simple. Simple as long as you can wrap your head around the basic social meaning of things. Keep in mind I said social meaning of things.

When dealing with people there are certain things that are either socially acceptable, and/or social unacceptable. This goes beyond just things like, “Say, “Bless you” when someone sneezes.” and words and actions play a very big role in how the frame is carried out.

Words actually have a bigger impact on the frames themselves than social acceptance does.

Example:
Think about the difference of these statements.
“I am thinking about changing the look of my goatee. Do you think I should do that?”
And
“I am thinking about changing the look of my goatee. How do you think I should trim it?”

You might be thinking, “.. But Finesse, your asking for acceptance.,.” and you know what.. you are absolutely RIGHT! I am, asking for acceptance, but I am asking for it on my terms.

How you ask? Well, despite my ending with a question on both accounts, notice how the context clues elude to my position in the interaction. By saying, “Do you think..” v. “How do you think…” I am placing myself in a position of authority.

Social situations and growing up tell us that when a person asks, “Can I do...[something]?” You are asking for permission. Growing up, you would always ask your parents if you could do something, and you used those words probably. You are putting yourself in a submissive position when those words (and others like it) come out of your mouth. Think about what the difference is if you would say this instead, “I am going to do… [something].” Your parents still have the option of saying, “No!” but now they have the added inconvenience of actually thinking of a reason why they don’t want you to.

That my friends, is how you affect emotional frames in people, where a simple statement entices people to think about a particular thing, and people will all of a sudden become angry, agitated, turned-on, happy, etc…

This is why frames are more commonly changed with statements v. questions. Questions require a certain amount of rapport and trust that you may, or may not, have.

Let’s get back to the example. Notice in the second one I was not asking for permission to trim my goatee, instead I was asking for a suggestion on how I should go about doing it. This in itself is a frame. If the other person mentions any way they think I should trim it, they have 1) just jumped through a hoop, 2) just passively accepted my frame (mind you they CAN rebut a frame, which we’ll cover in a little bit) or 3) reject the frame entirely.

Let me walk you through step by step what happens with each example. (in parenthesis is the other persons thoughts)

Example 1) I am thinking (what are they thinking about, and how will it affect me?) about changing the look of my goatee (do I care?). Do you think I should do that? ([see previous thought]) Yes/No/Maybe

Example 2) I am thinking (what are they thinking about, an how will it affect me?) about changing the look of my goatee (do I care?). How do you think I should trim it? ([see previous thought] I can answer his question, tell him I don’t care (socially unacceptable, btw) or ignore him (again, socially bad, but has he socially wronged me?))(I guess I’ll answer his question)

Now keep in mind, this is just how people deal with others when they are actually engaged with conversation. There are other things that go through their mind also, but for the sake of keeping it as simple as possible I will try and keep those out.

What is the frame here? The frame here is who is in control of the conversation/physical space/actions of the other person. That is the frame being negotiated at the moment. The reasons frames are hard to teach and quite possibly almost impossible to understand, is that there are just simply too many options and frames flying out there to disseminate a well thought out plan of recognizing and implementing them.

In the first example, the frame was pre-negotiated. Meaning that I automatically gave away and decided I was the submissive one, and that if the other person wanted to, they could control my actions. The second one, I was indicating that the other person has no control what action I take, but! (and this is a big but) I am giving them an option to come along with me, and at least influence the way I carry out my decision, so what does that do? (here’s the but!) This is what I call Frame Illusions!! If the other person decides (and I’ve given them no reason not to) to comply with the frame I’ve set [influencing how to carry out], they passively accept that I am in control of the interaction involving my goatee. (Duh!) AND they very well could possibly think that they have in fact taken the dominant frame! Why? Because I gave them control over something trivial about myself.

This is why I say frames are controlled in the submissive roles.

“But Finesse, your goatee is great, and sexy as hell, and tickles me when we kiss, but what does it have to do with getting in Kate Beckinsales’ pants?”

Goooooood question, I’m glad you asked.

Perhaps another example is in order, but first you have to decide what frame you want to instill and it must be a narrow enough topic to aim for, which means you have to get specific. Simply saying “sexual frame” isn’t specific enough. [ hmm I want her to get wet, and think about me exploding inside her so that I can pull out and watch her cream-pied hole drip my hot gooey love juice out and onto her bed sheets while we stand here talking.] That’s a good one! Too easy though… Let’s do this one instead…

Example: [How to make her think about entertaining the idea of me kissing her.]

Gotta crawl before we can run..

Alright, now that we’ve narrowed a specific frame down ( I want to take this time to point out that you may not actually ever achieve the intended frame, but if you use the frame game [if you’ve played it] you can get damn close, which is actually good enough for our purposes) it’s time to think about the social view points regarding this.

Step 1- Answer these (for her, these are possible questions that may go through her head): a) Is it socially acceptable to kiss a stranger? b) Is it socially acceptable to publically display my sexual feelings? c) Where are my friends? d) Boyfriend (have one or not) Do I love him enough, not to jump someone I am really attracted to? (btw if this question crosses her mind, you’ve already been blown out which is why direct is a touchy subject for most) e) Can I trust this guy (and his friends)? and f) Is he a braggart?
(Keep in mind, this is by far a short list of possible questions. This is not all possible thoughts, the person can exhibit different thoughts depending on a wide array of things from religion, to upbringing, to peer influence, to whether or not they are leaders or followers, to their menstrual cycle… etc..)

For our example: the answers for these will be a) yes b) right now, yes c) downstairs d) no boyfriend e) all except that smirks guy(mwhah) f) ehhh, don’t know yet

Step 2 – Once the social influence questions have been answered, you must think of possible solutions on how to change her position of thought if it’s bad. Keep in mind, you’ll have to read clues, and in a little I’ll explain some of the ways a person can answer these to actually see if she is ok with progressing. There are clues you can pay attention to, but for the most part it’s better just to take the common frames (ways most society thinks) and address those problems first. If you do it this way, you’ll start to see that framing is like a domino effect where once you start the process, there’s no stopping as the rest of the frames are super easy to set. The path of least resistance.

Possible solutions to answers/questions: a) no solution needed b) no solution needed c) no solution needed d) no solution needed e) I may have to make her feel comfortable around Smirks (if so how), or I could move her or make her forget about him f) I need to answer whether or not I am a braggart.

Now here-in lays the problem. HOW do you know where she lies in regards to these frames? How do I make sure she has all these “switches” flipped? How for that matter, do I even know if all these questions are the ones she is even thinking?

You don’t.

So what you do, is make sure you flip them anyway. ;)

Captain Jack does this relatively fast with his strawberry fields, and rings on fingers. (This ring means I can keep a secret, This ring means more trustworthy…) People actually have different schools of thought on how to accomplish this. Simply saying them is the least effective, stories are slightly more effective, and my personal philosophy is that showing them is best.

Step 3 – Actually flipping the “attraction switches”

I will not cover these as you should be able to google “attraction switches” and get all the info you could need. But these attraction switches are actually frames. By flipping these switches you are changing her thought process about you. You are manipulating her internal frame.

In this example, the only 2 that need to be solved are E and F. So, what are the easiest ways to do that? In this scenario, I would probably ask Smirks to go and “apologize”, (remember, I think actions speak louder than words), however, you could also tell a “story” and drop in that there isn’t another person you would rather have by your side if shit hits the fan than him, or you could just say, “Smirks is probably my most trustworthy friend.” Should solve that issue, as far as the braggart part, this is slightly harder. How do I show her I am not? Be humble. (see one of Bull Runs posts... forgot which one )

Humble – lowly, not arrogant, meek, and modest

Telling an awesome story where you did such and such, and then breaking eye contact and not looking for a reaction is the best way I can think of to accomplish this. Not looking for a reaction on any story really, is the best way to accomplish this.

Now all the steps are in place, you just have to pull the trigger. Grab the nuts, man up.

There are TONS of ways to elicit a frame. Keep in mind that in any given scenario there are at LEAST, 6 frames in play and all affect one another. (See picture frame theory)

The keys to framing (as I see right now) are identifying what the frame in question is and making sure you set ones that benefit you.

With all of this, what is the point of anything that you’ve just read? It’s this. You’ll go through several frames in a single 5 minute interaction. It’s how you recognize them that is the primary problem, and the secondary framing issue is which one’s you are setting. Too much is taught about how to set frames, and very little is taught on how to recognize them should there already be one set up in which is bad.

I cannot teach how to recognize a frame, because right now I am not sure exactly what is included in that. What I can say, is a frame is put in place by any and all of these factors plus some and this is how you can tell what frames are active: Societal values, how they were raised, TV, what magazines they read, what their friends say, how they act towards you, how they speak to you, and the manner in which you first start speaking to them (this being the natural frame they exhibit because it is making you want to react a certain way).

I want to expand on that last one a little bit. I think so far, that this may be the most important one out of anything in being able to see where their frames lie. Once you bring up a topic, providing they respond to you, you will be able to better tell how you should respond in order to make sure you are in the clear and have established the proper frames.

Framing is very complex and the hard part is that everything happens in the blink of an eye. A person must try and predict possible reactions, and make sure they have something in place or ready in order to combat resistance.

Pay attention to their statements, do they say things like “what do you think?” or do they give you instructions, do say things in a half question/ half statement kinda way.

I want to point out simple frames that get thrown out all the time.

There is one that Vector and I find somewhat comical. When either of us call the other, and they pick up, inevitably the statement is “Oh hey man, what’s up?” It is a simple frame in the fact that the person who says it is instructing the other to tell them what they are doing. Something I pointed out a while back that him and I routinely joke about.

Finesse: Oh hey whats up?
Vector: Whats going on with you?
Finesse: hah, touchin myself and thinking of you.
Vector: oh yeah? I was calling to see if you wanted to come touch me.

The first 3 lines are typical, but usually the person who is being called says, “whats going on?” first. It’s a qualifying line in this instance, and a frame. There are 5 frames, that I can see in the 4 lines of Vector and my conversation, can anyone point them out?

[Guest]

Posts this long I don't usually read (but I do skim). This is good stuff. There are a couple things I want to point out..

First is that understanding frames in action in real time is not easy and requires unconscious competence. It's like if you were to understand each word and then piece them together into a sentence, and then extract meaning from the sentence, you would not be able to understand language at the speed of speech. But once you get good at it, the meaning just flows into your mind. The same is true of understanding frames. It takes practice to see when a frame is being placed, especially the more subtle ones.

The other thing is that using the submissive question role to place a frame does work, but you have to be careful about using it too much. Even people who are not aware of frames will start to feel that something isn't right. Their subconscious is having to adjust to the frames you're setting and they'll feel a vague uneasiness which can backfire if they feel you're manipulating or being shady. So be careful with using it too much.

But yeah, this is super powerful, not just in dealing with women but in all interactions.

[Guest]

Vector,
I got to thinking, on the way home, about what we talked about this morning as I was rolling out of your bed after a night of endless passion.

I'm not sure the contract signing example was what I had in mind in regards to a submissive frame.

I think the example fits within the scope of the type of frame, but yet the context of having the "oh you didn't want that?" is a little off.

Context being the definition of why the frame is being set. Where you have a high pressure sales tactic powering the reasoning for using it.

Part of your ninjaness I think uses this type of frame and I think in a low-pressure enviroment the results and actions are less noticable and comes across as teasing and flirting.

Where high pressure would be almost forcefully changing someones mind, and low pressure is just laying it out and letting them decide.

I think though that is what leading is. That is what men should do, and inherently women will follow it, or give some token resistence.

[Guest]

Also, I forgot to cover "rebuting the frame".

Rebuting the frame happens when people accept your passive frame, "How do you think I should..." [frame = you are in control, not them], and then try and "go back" or recant their authority or challenge them when they are presented with them. (which again, is why I recommend submissive)

A rebuttal would be. "Who says you have the choice?" (i.e. shit tests.)

Take our second "goatee" example from above, the frame being I have control over my body (which keep in mind isn't really a solid example because not many people besides the army and the church challenge your domain over your own body). A rebuttal in this instance would be like, "Your body is your temple, you shouldn't do that."

[Guest]

I agree that the reason or motivation behind setting the frame makes a difference. If the intent is to avoid a question or to force a frame that the target doesn't agree with, then the frames will stack up in a pattern of evasion, which will raise red flags. A single frame may not be bad, but taken together they will be seen as an attempt to keep a question from being asked, which is the hallmark of shifty behavior.

Whereas if your frame/worldview disagrees with that of the target, but you address things in a plain, open manner, things go very differently. In this scenario you would focus on managing the frames in your own head, and then in an interaction they should flow out easily and comfortably. This naturally fits with a lot of inner game stuff also.

[Guest]

Correct.

In my mind though, I am constantly thinking about certain future responses.

So much so in fact, that I have to be wary I am not looking for reactions because I tend to guess what possible bad reactions would be.