Dallas PUA
The Pickup Artist Playground
Assume Attraction ---> Go Direct??
22 posts
• Page 2 of 3 • 1, 2, 3
by Guest » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:39 pm
[quote1246408446=AlphaMo]
[quote1246381555=Bull Run]
Basically, PC, you need to be outcome independent...
If she likes me, she likes me...if not, she doesn't. The fact is that you like her and you want her...that's all that really needs to matter in your head. The outcome is a different part of the equation.
[/quote1246381555]
I get the impression that your mentality is: If it doesn't work or click the first time or VERY quickly...then she ain't worth it and its time to move on.
[/quote1246408446]
No, no, no. Women are a like dimmer switches, not traditional 'on/off' switches. They thrive in the gray areas of life...I understand this and comply. Fact is that, as you stated, the girls that require more effort are usually worth the effort.
However, if you do direct, there has to be some minimal level of compliance on her part...in the world of indirect, this doesn't matter nearly as much....
[quote1246381555=Bull Run]
Basically, PC, you need to be outcome independent...
If she likes me, she likes me...if not, she doesn't. The fact is that you like her and you want her...that's all that really needs to matter in your head. The outcome is a different part of the equation.
[/quote1246381555]
I get the impression that your mentality is: If it doesn't work or click the first time or VERY quickly...then she ain't worth it and its time to move on.
[/quote1246408446]
No, no, no. Women are a like dimmer switches, not traditional 'on/off' switches. They thrive in the gray areas of life...I understand this and comply. Fact is that, as you stated, the girls that require more effort are usually worth the effort.
However, if you do direct, there has to be some minimal level of compliance on her part...in the world of indirect, this doesn't matter nearly as much....
- Guest
by Guest » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:24 pm
[quote1246411263=AlphaMo]
So, when running "direct", a little bit of outcome dependence is what drives me to keep going while she shit-tests and I hold my ground and work my way in. I'm competitive in general, so I want to win.
[/quote1246411263]
Forgot to say that High Quality girls will shit test you. Great Point and thanks for reminding me AlphaMo.
Just like how AlphaMo says he doesn't want some girl to just fall in his lap neither does a High Quality girl. They want a guy who can really show her that you are worth it. So they will throw out some shit tests. Usually the shit test will be one that you can definitely conquer and she will want you to.
So, when running "direct", a little bit of outcome dependence is what drives me to keep going while she shit-tests and I hold my ground and work my way in. I'm competitive in general, so I want to win.
[/quote1246411263]
Forgot to say that High Quality girls will shit test you. Great Point and thanks for reminding me AlphaMo.
Just like how AlphaMo says he doesn't want some girl to just fall in his lap neither does a High Quality girl. They want a guy who can really show her that you are worth it. So they will throw out some shit tests. Usually the shit test will be one that you can definitely conquer and she will want you to.
- Guest
by Guest » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:31 pm
I've had several women tell me I'm hot. That said, I think if you get those kinds of comments, and approach a girl, you don't need to demonstrate higher value. You should be able to assume it. But it's an easy thing to fuck up too, it takes time to internalize it. My brain is still trying to catch up with my body.
I think the worst mistake you can make if you are a really good looking guy is to try to demonstrate pre-selection with stories. Talking to girls in real life is one thing, but if you go into a story, "my ex-girlfriend" is about as far as you want to push it. "One of my ex-girlfriends" in the story is probably too much.
The other major pitfall that I think the really good looking guy faces is the player zone. I know this is the zone that I need to be way more careful with, and I'm only just now figuring this out. I think getting classified as the player is my number one cause of failure.
One way I've learned to avoid the player zone, and my recent successes jive with this, is to ask questions to the women I'm targeting related to dating, and how I'm struggling. I know this is 1,000% opposite of what is generally advised, but it's been working for me with 6's and 7's. I can't speak for how well it works with 8's or 9's or 10's because I'm a total puss when it comes to opening sets of hot women.
An example is "Hey, let me ask you guys a question. When you give your number out to a guy that you're interested in, should that guy text first, or call first? Or does it even matter?" After they talk about the answer to that for a while, ask another question like "Ok, well, here's my main problem. It seems like, and I've only been divorced for 2.5 years, so I don't have that much experience, but it seems like about half of the women I invite out on dates end up canceling on me at the last minute. What I can't figure out is, why they're doing it? And they never cancel with enough advance notice for me to make other plans. It's always last minute. I can't figure out if they're just not interested or if they're playing some kind of hard to get game. Have you guys ever canceled a date at the last minute?"
This gets you into good conversation that women enjoy and it kind of takes the "he's a total player" out of the equation. At least it makes you seem more catchable.
I honestly believe that 99% of the target market for the PUA industry is the engineering nerd who has zero skills with women. These guys need to have DHV stories that demonstrate pre-selection. If you're a good looking guy, I don't think you need these stories and if you try them, you come off as try hard.
I think the worst mistake you can make if you are a really good looking guy is to try to demonstrate pre-selection with stories. Talking to girls in real life is one thing, but if you go into a story, "my ex-girlfriend" is about as far as you want to push it. "One of my ex-girlfriends" in the story is probably too much.
The other major pitfall that I think the really good looking guy faces is the player zone. I know this is the zone that I need to be way more careful with, and I'm only just now figuring this out. I think getting classified as the player is my number one cause of failure.
One way I've learned to avoid the player zone, and my recent successes jive with this, is to ask questions to the women I'm targeting related to dating, and how I'm struggling. I know this is 1,000% opposite of what is generally advised, but it's been working for me with 6's and 7's. I can't speak for how well it works with 8's or 9's or 10's because I'm a total puss when it comes to opening sets of hot women.
An example is "Hey, let me ask you guys a question. When you give your number out to a guy that you're interested in, should that guy text first, or call first? Or does it even matter?" After they talk about the answer to that for a while, ask another question like "Ok, well, here's my main problem. It seems like, and I've only been divorced for 2.5 years, so I don't have that much experience, but it seems like about half of the women I invite out on dates end up canceling on me at the last minute. What I can't figure out is, why they're doing it? And they never cancel with enough advance notice for me to make other plans. It's always last minute. I can't figure out if they're just not interested or if they're playing some kind of hard to get game. Have you guys ever canceled a date at the last minute?"
This gets you into good conversation that women enjoy and it kind of takes the "he's a total player" out of the equation. At least it makes you seem more catchable.
I honestly believe that 99% of the target market for the PUA industry is the engineering nerd who has zero skills with women. These guys need to have DHV stories that demonstrate pre-selection. If you're a good looking guy, I don't think you need these stories and if you try them, you come off as try hard.
- Guest
by Guest » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:48 pm
So your plan is to inform your potential mate that you are divorced, meaning you now own half of what you used to own, and that you are also forgettable enough that women would cancel dates with you? Truly a wonderful plan if I ever heard one. Why don't you also lead off with the fact you live in your mom's basement only to come up for meatloaf, or to leave for work at 7/11 for your graveyard shift. Don't forget to mention the 6 cats all named Whiskers Meowington or some variation thereof that you take lolcats pictures of.
- Guest
by Guest » Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:31 am
[quote1246433058=Alphagame]
The other major pitfall that I think the really good looking guy faces is the player zone. I know this is the zone that I need to be way more careful with, and I'm only just now figuring this out. I think getting classified as the player is my number one cause of failure.
[/quote1246433058]
NO WAY! That is not a pitfall at all. Girls love a guy who other girls find attractive. Think pre-selection.
A recent conversation:
HB: You are a player aren't you.
PC: Why do you say that?
HB: Blah
PC: Hrmm ok yeah I date other women.
HB: I figured. Just don't tell me about them.
PC: Ok go get in bed.
You are looking at this the wrong way Alphagame. I really didn't like anything I read that you wrote up there. I think you are DLVing yourself hardcore. Which maybe you need to do if the girl is a HB6. But geeze that is some major DLVing.
I don't think I would ever tell a girl some other girl stood me up. Think of some other stuff to talk about with these women you meet.
The other major pitfall that I think the really good looking guy faces is the player zone. I know this is the zone that I need to be way more careful with, and I'm only just now figuring this out. I think getting classified as the player is my number one cause of failure.
[/quote1246433058]
NO WAY! That is not a pitfall at all. Girls love a guy who other girls find attractive. Think pre-selection.
A recent conversation:
HB: You are a player aren't you.
PC: Why do you say that?
HB: Blah
PC: Hrmm ok yeah I date other women.
HB: I figured. Just don't tell me about them.
PC: Ok go get in bed.
You are looking at this the wrong way Alphagame. I really didn't like anything I read that you wrote up there. I think you are DLVing yourself hardcore. Which maybe you need to do if the girl is a HB6. But geeze that is some major DLVing.
I don't think I would ever tell a girl some other girl stood me up. Think of some other stuff to talk about with these women you meet.
- Guest
by Guest » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:19 am
[quote1246456641=Alphagame]I think the worst mistake you can make if you are a really good looking guy is to try to demonstrate pre-selection with stories. Talking to girls in real life is one thing, but if you go into a story, "my ex-girlfriend" is about as far as you want to push it. "One of my ex-girlfriends" in the story is probably too much.[/quote1246456641]
I agree with this. The better looking you are, the less you need to create value. Actually, it really doesn't matter how good looking you are or are not...stories will be perceived as try hard. When in set, you need to talk about nothing in particular, just talk and let your personality show through based on whatever it is that you're talking about. Stories, routines, and gambits just make you seem contrived and if you can pull them off well, they make you seem arrogant or, like you said, a try hard.
[quote1246456641=Alphagame]The other major pitfall that I think the really good looking guy faces is the player zone. I know this is the zone that I need to be way more careful with, and I'm only just now figuring this out. I think getting classified as the player is my number one cause of failure.[/quote1246456641]
It's not being classified as a player that's your number one failure, it's the fact that you don't embrace being referred to as a player that causes failure. You see, being classified as a player is a shit test. Your problem is that you're not passing the shit test because you have this idea that there is something wrong with being a player when, in fact, MOST women want you to be experienced and skilled in the art of socializing with women, handling women, leading women, and pleasing them.
It's kind of like this, when a woman mentions anything, it means it's on her mind which is a good start. For example, when a woman tells me that she's not going to have sex with me, that doesn't mean that she doesn't want to have sex, instead it means that she's already thought of having sex and, if you do it right, going from a thought in her head to a reality is a very, very easy and small step. So, when a woman says I'm not going to fuck you what she's really saying is, I want to fuck you but I'm going to see how you react to this statement to determine if that's all you really want from me. If you start pouting I know that you don't understand women and that you only really wanted sex. If you take this in stride and don't let if phase you I know that you're confident, secure, understand how women work, and aren't 100% interested in sex (even if you are ;).
When you get called a player, she wants to see your reaction. If you say something like, "hell no I'm not a player!" Then, she's going to think you're a liar. If you say something like, "no, I'm not a player, in fact I'm not very good with women at all." Then, she's going to think that you're a pussy that's incompetent with women. If you accept it, it's really a back handed compliment, with humility and without making it a big deal, then you've passed. The reason you've passed is because of your reaction, you just showed her that you're savvy with women. The idea that you're a player was already determined, by her. You can't change her mind, what you can do is show her your skill with dealing with women and move on from there. She'll appreciate the honesty and she'll be the beneficiary of your skill with the ladies. This is the best of both worlds for her.
Now, if you're talking to 6s and 7s and, for some reason, want to jam one of them, then yes you need to DLV yourself. A 6 or a 7 doesn't want to go to bed with someone that they deem to be a 8 or a 9 unless you show her that you're somewhat pathetic or flawed...just like her ugly mug and fat ass ;)
[quote1246456641=Alphagame]I honestly believe that 99% of the target market for the PUA industry is the engineering nerd who has zero skills with women. These guys need to have DHV stories that demonstrate pre-selection. If you're a good looking guy, I don't think you need these stories and if you try them, you come off as try hard.[/quote1246456641]
Very true. But, these guys never really get it. So, they spend tons of money reading and attending seminars but never really learn to be any better.
I agree with this. The better looking you are, the less you need to create value. Actually, it really doesn't matter how good looking you are or are not...stories will be perceived as try hard. When in set, you need to talk about nothing in particular, just talk and let your personality show through based on whatever it is that you're talking about. Stories, routines, and gambits just make you seem contrived and if you can pull them off well, they make you seem arrogant or, like you said, a try hard.
[quote1246456641=Alphagame]The other major pitfall that I think the really good looking guy faces is the player zone. I know this is the zone that I need to be way more careful with, and I'm only just now figuring this out. I think getting classified as the player is my number one cause of failure.[/quote1246456641]
It's not being classified as a player that's your number one failure, it's the fact that you don't embrace being referred to as a player that causes failure. You see, being classified as a player is a shit test. Your problem is that you're not passing the shit test because you have this idea that there is something wrong with being a player when, in fact, MOST women want you to be experienced and skilled in the art of socializing with women, handling women, leading women, and pleasing them.
It's kind of like this, when a woman mentions anything, it means it's on her mind which is a good start. For example, when a woman tells me that she's not going to have sex with me, that doesn't mean that she doesn't want to have sex, instead it means that she's already thought of having sex and, if you do it right, going from a thought in her head to a reality is a very, very easy and small step. So, when a woman says I'm not going to fuck you what she's really saying is, I want to fuck you but I'm going to see how you react to this statement to determine if that's all you really want from me. If you start pouting I know that you don't understand women and that you only really wanted sex. If you take this in stride and don't let if phase you I know that you're confident, secure, understand how women work, and aren't 100% interested in sex (even if you are ;).
When you get called a player, she wants to see your reaction. If you say something like, "hell no I'm not a player!" Then, she's going to think you're a liar. If you say something like, "no, I'm not a player, in fact I'm not very good with women at all." Then, she's going to think that you're a pussy that's incompetent with women. If you accept it, it's really a back handed compliment, with humility and without making it a big deal, then you've passed. The reason you've passed is because of your reaction, you just showed her that you're savvy with women. The idea that you're a player was already determined, by her. You can't change her mind, what you can do is show her your skill with dealing with women and move on from there. She'll appreciate the honesty and she'll be the beneficiary of your skill with the ladies. This is the best of both worlds for her.
Now, if you're talking to 6s and 7s and, for some reason, want to jam one of them, then yes you need to DLV yourself. A 6 or a 7 doesn't want to go to bed with someone that they deem to be a 8 or a 9 unless you show her that you're somewhat pathetic or flawed...just like her ugly mug and fat ass ;)
[quote1246456641=Alphagame]I honestly believe that 99% of the target market for the PUA industry is the engineering nerd who has zero skills with women. These guys need to have DHV stories that demonstrate pre-selection. If you're a good looking guy, I don't think you need these stories and if you try them, you come off as try hard.[/quote1246456641]
Very true. But, these guys never really get it. So, they spend tons of money reading and attending seminars but never really learn to be any better.
- Guest
by Guest » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:57 am
A player recognizes their own and real players give respect and credit where credit and respect are due.
Chicks dig the game.
My favorite response to the whole "player" question: "No, I'm horrible with women ... (clown grin, not looking at them but they can still see my face, break eye contact if need be)" then i wait for response while im continuing with what im doing, if no response (which is seldom if ever) i drop it, or they give any response (usually hit you or say "pfft whatever") i'll ask what made them say that. Once they've explained, I change topics with "Its funny you mentioned that, this one girl I was seeing (dhv+frame) said... (story unrelated to being a player) Oh that reminds me, i need to call her back. (/end dhv /end frame)"
Chicks dig the game.
My favorite response to the whole "player" question: "No, I'm horrible with women ... (clown grin, not looking at them but they can still see my face, break eye contact if need be)" then i wait for response while im continuing with what im doing, if no response (which is seldom if ever) i drop it, or they give any response (usually hit you or say "pfft whatever") i'll ask what made them say that. Once they've explained, I change topics with "Its funny you mentioned that, this one girl I was seeing (dhv+frame) said... (story unrelated to being a player) Oh that reminds me, i need to call her back. (/end dhv /end frame)"
- Guest
by Guest » Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:11 pm
Women like players. Women hate being played.
Don't say that women flake on dates, because women will intuitively assume that they are doing so for a reason. Like they never wanted to see you in the first place, for some reason. Ick.
But sincerity (or the appearance of sincerity lol), showing vulnerability, and talking about relationships is all good for comfort.
Don't say that women flake on dates, because women will intuitively assume that they are doing so for a reason. Like they never wanted to see you in the first place, for some reason. Ick.
But sincerity (or the appearance of sincerity lol), showing vulnerability, and talking about relationships is all good for comfort.
- Guest
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