i'm sure this is not new and may be out there somewhere, but its an interesting theory on how you can modify a girls (or anyones) behavior and has been bouncing around my head lately...
there are two ways to modify behavior; punishment and reward. i believe both are intuitive and you should knwo what they mean, but if you dont, then an example of punishment is if you do not like the behavior of your son, you take away his toys. he'll eventually learn (sometimes) that throwing rocks at windsheilds = no xbox. bad behaviour = punishment.
one of the primary ways to train animals is called operant conditioning, meaning that you reward them for good behavior. for example, you tell the dog to sit, and when he does, you give him a treat. over time, the dog will learn that sitting = treat. eventually, he will VOLUNTARY sit at YOUR COMMAND because he believes he will be rewarded with a treat...
this applies to pick up because you want to use punishment and reward to modify a girls behavior. if you have the frame that you are alpha, that you are the prize and shes lucky to be talking to you, this can work. in mystery's book, he talks briefly about punishment. for example, you ask a girl to jump through a small hoop and if she does not comply. this is bad behavior. you roll off and talk to your friends, you freeze her out. this is a form of punishment, she does not get the pleasure of talking to you. i have seen this work in field before, many many times...it may actually create more attraction because you dont come off as needy, indifferent.
on the flipside, if she does what you like, then you reward her. for example, you grab her hand, motion and lead her into a spin and she complies, this is good behavior. to reward her, you show her affection with a brief hug. the reward is your hug, your affection.
through the effective use of BOTH punishment and reward, she'll eventually learn what is acceptable (desired) behavior and what is not. she'll be "trained" to do what you want her to do...i believe that rewarding good behavior would be more effective than punishment...but there are times when punishment can work exceptionally well!
i think that this should work if you are the prize in the girls eyes...
your thoughts?
feel free to discuss....
Dallas PUA
The Pickup Artist Playground
picking up women is like...training dogs?
9 posts
• Page 1 of 1
by Guest » Wed May 06, 2009 10:14 pm
I guess you're finally starting to make the correlation in your head between what you've read, what we've beat you over the head with to what your brain comprehends. Yeah, it's been said before by people here and gurus and stuff...but the fact that it came to you w/o prior knowledge means you're starting to internalize.
That's how I see it, anyway.
That's how I see it, anyway.
- Guest
by Guest » Thu May 07, 2009 12:56 am
All I have to say is make it known if a girl does something you don't like. This is from the beginning of meeting a girl and throughout your relationship. The second you let her walk all over you she will. She will do whatever she wants or thinks she can get away with. And then she will lose all respect for you.
- Guest
by Guest » Thu May 07, 2009 11:49 am
[quote1241712647=UncleHOwie]When you are around a well trained dog next time, observe the interaction between the dog and the owner.[/quote1241712647]
This is a perfect statement, and is at the core with how I treat women.
A well trained dog has a firm grasp of a few things:
1) A healthy fear of the master. Not of what the master will do to them, but of what the master could do to them. A woman has got to have a healthy fear of you. Period. And, I'm not just speaking in physical terms. Sure, that's part of it. But, they also have to be afraid that you could leave, they need to fear that you could be angry with them.
2) Expectations. A well trained dog understands that the master expects a lot from them. In fact, the mere fact that the you are their master sets you a part from the rest of the world. When you have high expectations for people, and let it be known, they tend to try to strive to those expectations.
3) Respect. A well trained dog and his master have a mutual respect for each other. Further, I respect you enough to treat you like an adult. I'll tell you like it is and expect the same from you.
4) Pride. If you expect a lot from your dog, it subcommunicates that you have enough respect for them to categorize them as 'special,' as a cut about everyone else hence the reason for the expectations (you wouldn't have high expectations for someone that you deem to be merely average). People have the same dynamic. And, just as the subordinate is proud to be with the master, the master is proud to be with the subordinate.
Women have a drive to be a caretaker, to be supportive and nurturing. In return, they expect to protected and provided for. This has been the trade that men and women have been making forever.
In my experience, once you establish all of the above with a woman, she's going to think you hung the moon. She'll never stray, unless you do first. And, as long as you keep all of the above in tact, she's always going to be 100% loyal to you.
Just like a well trained dog.
This is a perfect statement, and is at the core with how I treat women.
A well trained dog has a firm grasp of a few things:
1) A healthy fear of the master. Not of what the master will do to them, but of what the master could do to them. A woman has got to have a healthy fear of you. Period. And, I'm not just speaking in physical terms. Sure, that's part of it. But, they also have to be afraid that you could leave, they need to fear that you could be angry with them.
2) Expectations. A well trained dog understands that the master expects a lot from them. In fact, the mere fact that the you are their master sets you a part from the rest of the world. When you have high expectations for people, and let it be known, they tend to try to strive to those expectations.
3) Respect. A well trained dog and his master have a mutual respect for each other. Further, I respect you enough to treat you like an adult. I'll tell you like it is and expect the same from you.
4) Pride. If you expect a lot from your dog, it subcommunicates that you have enough respect for them to categorize them as 'special,' as a cut about everyone else hence the reason for the expectations (you wouldn't have high expectations for someone that you deem to be merely average). People have the same dynamic. And, just as the subordinate is proud to be with the master, the master is proud to be with the subordinate.
Women have a drive to be a caretaker, to be supportive and nurturing. In return, they expect to protected and provided for. This has been the trade that men and women have been making forever.
In my experience, once you establish all of the above with a woman, she's going to think you hung the moon. She'll never stray, unless you do first. And, as long as you keep all of the above in tact, she's always going to be 100% loyal to you.
Just like a well trained dog.
- Guest
by Guest » Thu May 07, 2009 1:39 pm
[quote1241721174=Bull Run]
[quote1241712647=UncleHOwie]When you are around a well trained dog next time, observe the interaction between the dog and the owner.[/quote1241712647]
This is a perfect statement, and is at the core with how I treat women.
A well trained dog has a firm grasp of a few things:
1) A healthy fear of the master. Not of what the master will do to them, but of what the master could do to them. A woman has got to have a healthy fear of you. Period. And, I'm not just speaking in physical terms. Sure, that's part of it. But, they also have to be afraid that you could leave, they need to fear that you could be angry with them.
2) Expectations. A well trained dog understands that the master expects a lot from them. In fact, the mere fact that the you are their master sets you a part from the rest of the world. When you have high expectations for people, and let it be known, they tend to try to strive to those expectations.
3) Respect. A well trained dog and his master have a mutual respect for each other. Further, I respect you enough to treat you like an adult. I'll tell you like it is and expect the same from you.
4) Pride. If you expect a lot from your dog, it subcommunicates that you have enough respect for them to categorize them as 'special,' as a cut about everyone else hence the reason for the expectations (you wouldn't have high expectations for someone that you deem to be merely average). People have the same dynamic. And, just as the subordinate is proud to be with the master, the master is proud to be with the subordinate.
Women have a drive to be a caretaker, to be supportive and nurturing. In return, they expect to protected and provided for. This has been the trade that men and women have been making forever.
In my experience, once you establish all of the above with a woman, she's going to think you hung the moon. She'll never stray, unless you do first. And, as long as you keep all of the above in tact, she's always going to be 100% loyal to you.
Just like a well trained dog.
[/quote1241721174]
___________________________________
Interesting.
B R what do you think about FB v. GF? Do you think there are different qualities for each? Well, not different, but rather, different ones apply to FB v. GF?
You listed: Healthy Fear, Expectations, Respect and Pride. Do you think some apply only to a girlfriend? In my mind, I think for a mutual fuck buddy relationship, Fear isn't really all that important.
How do you think this could apply to Smirks situation? Not to derail the thread, I just see connections is all.
Good stuff.
[quote1241712647=UncleHOwie]When you are around a well trained dog next time, observe the interaction between the dog and the owner.[/quote1241712647]
This is a perfect statement, and is at the core with how I treat women.
A well trained dog has a firm grasp of a few things:
1) A healthy fear of the master. Not of what the master will do to them, but of what the master could do to them. A woman has got to have a healthy fear of you. Period. And, I'm not just speaking in physical terms. Sure, that's part of it. But, they also have to be afraid that you could leave, they need to fear that you could be angry with them.
2) Expectations. A well trained dog understands that the master expects a lot from them. In fact, the mere fact that the you are their master sets you a part from the rest of the world. When you have high expectations for people, and let it be known, they tend to try to strive to those expectations.
3) Respect. A well trained dog and his master have a mutual respect for each other. Further, I respect you enough to treat you like an adult. I'll tell you like it is and expect the same from you.
4) Pride. If you expect a lot from your dog, it subcommunicates that you have enough respect for them to categorize them as 'special,' as a cut about everyone else hence the reason for the expectations (you wouldn't have high expectations for someone that you deem to be merely average). People have the same dynamic. And, just as the subordinate is proud to be with the master, the master is proud to be with the subordinate.
Women have a drive to be a caretaker, to be supportive and nurturing. In return, they expect to protected and provided for. This has been the trade that men and women have been making forever.
In my experience, once you establish all of the above with a woman, she's going to think you hung the moon. She'll never stray, unless you do first. And, as long as you keep all of the above in tact, she's always going to be 100% loyal to you.
Just like a well trained dog.
[/quote1241721174]
___________________________________
Interesting.
B R what do you think about FB v. GF? Do you think there are different qualities for each? Well, not different, but rather, different ones apply to FB v. GF?
You listed: Healthy Fear, Expectations, Respect and Pride. Do you think some apply only to a girlfriend? In my mind, I think for a mutual fuck buddy relationship, Fear isn't really all that important.
How do you think this could apply to Smirks situation? Not to derail the thread, I just see connections is all.
Good stuff.
- Guest
by Guest » Thu May 07, 2009 5:18 pm
[quote1241729685=Finesse]
[quote1241721174=Bull Run]
[quote1241712647=UncleHOwie]When you are around a well trained dog next time, observe the interaction between the dog and the owner.[/quote1241712647]
This is a perfect statement, and is at the core with how I treat women.
A well trained dog has a firm grasp of a few things:
1) A healthy fear of the master. Not of what the master will do to them, but of what the master could do to them. A woman has got to have a healthy fear of you. Period. And, I'm not just speaking in physical terms. Sure, that's part of it. But, they also have to be afraid that you could leave, they need to fear that you could be angry with them.
2) Expectations. A well trained dog understands that the master expects a lot from them. In fact, the mere fact that the you are their master sets you a part from the rest of the world. When you have high expectations for people, and let it be known, they tend to try to strive to those expectations.
3) Respect. A well trained dog and his master have a mutual respect for each other. Further, I respect you enough to treat you like an adult. I'll tell you like it is and expect the same from you.
4) Pride. If you expect a lot from your dog, it subcommunicates that you have enough respect for them to categorize them as 'special,' as a cut about everyone else hence the reason for the expectations (you wouldn't have high expectations for someone that you deem to be merely average). People have the same dynamic. And, just as the subordinate is proud to be with the master, the master is proud to be with the subordinate.
Women have a drive to be a caretaker, to be supportive and nurturing. In return, they expect to protected and provided for. This has been the trade that men and women have been making forever.
In my experience, once you establish all of the above with a woman, she's going to think you hung the moon. She'll never stray, unless you do first. And, as long as you keep all of the above in tact, she's always going to be 100% loyal to you.
Just like a well trained dog.
[/quote1241721174]
___________________________________
Interesting.
B R what do you think about FB v. GF? Do you think there are different qualities for each? Well, not different, but rather, different ones apply to FB v. GF?
You listed: Healthy Fear, Expectations, Respect and Pride. Do you think some apply only to a girlfriend? In my mind, I think for a mutual fuck buddy relationship, Fear isn't really all that important.
How do you think this could apply to Smirks situation? Not to derail the thread, I just see connections is all.
Good stuff.
[/quote1241729685]
Pretty much none of those apply to a FB, except for respect. One of the reasons that she's willing to be a FB is that you use discretion and that you don't needlessly waste her time. All too often, women will enter into a FB type relationship as a last ditched effort to keep a guy in her life. A healthy FB relationship, if there is such a thing, typically has the frame of "I enjoy hanging out with you, but we have no plans, we have no future, we're just enjoying this for what it is, it will end."
Women are more than capable of having a relationship like this. But, they are definitely finite for many reasons. She meets someone else. You meet someone else. One of the two of you develop feelings for the other. She begins to feel used.
In the case of an FB the dynamics that I've noticed the most were things like:
1) Discretion, which I already mentioned.
2) Respect for her time, again I already mentioned that.
3) Don't be oblivious to what's going on. In other words, don't try to make this into something it's not, don't be afraid to call her and say 'hey, you want to come over for a drink and some sex?' She's a smart person. She understands what's going on. Don't belittle her by trying to hide the obvious.
Relating to Smirks. Well, I think that it may be that he's not demanding enough from them. Shit, I think most men don't demand enough from women.
Me, I come right out and say what I expect of her. But, this is the key, I don't tell that directly to them.
I use examples instead, something like this:
Bull Run: "You know those people that get in a relationship and let themselves go?"
Potential LTR: "Yeah..."
Bull Run: Then I point to a fat chick, "I bet she's no of those people."
This begins an entire conversation in which she'll talk about how disgusting that is or how the fat person is taking advantage of the other person's love. Essentially what you've done is implicitly tell her what you expect and you've done so in a way so that she repeats it as part of HER value system. It's very subtle, but women get subtle. You're job is now done. She gets it.
The great thing about expectations is that it reduces the stress in a relationship. You see, people are awesome at coping with issues. Take the stock market. It hates uncertainty. Give it good news, give it bad news and it can price that news in accordingly. But, give it no news and it automatically sells off.
Women are the same. If they don't know what you expect, then they don't know how to please you. And, that's exactly what women want. They want to make you happy.
[quote1241721174=Bull Run]
[quote1241712647=UncleHOwie]When you are around a well trained dog next time, observe the interaction between the dog and the owner.[/quote1241712647]
This is a perfect statement, and is at the core with how I treat women.
A well trained dog has a firm grasp of a few things:
1) A healthy fear of the master. Not of what the master will do to them, but of what the master could do to them. A woman has got to have a healthy fear of you. Period. And, I'm not just speaking in physical terms. Sure, that's part of it. But, they also have to be afraid that you could leave, they need to fear that you could be angry with them.
2) Expectations. A well trained dog understands that the master expects a lot from them. In fact, the mere fact that the you are their master sets you a part from the rest of the world. When you have high expectations for people, and let it be known, they tend to try to strive to those expectations.
3) Respect. A well trained dog and his master have a mutual respect for each other. Further, I respect you enough to treat you like an adult. I'll tell you like it is and expect the same from you.
4) Pride. If you expect a lot from your dog, it subcommunicates that you have enough respect for them to categorize them as 'special,' as a cut about everyone else hence the reason for the expectations (you wouldn't have high expectations for someone that you deem to be merely average). People have the same dynamic. And, just as the subordinate is proud to be with the master, the master is proud to be with the subordinate.
Women have a drive to be a caretaker, to be supportive and nurturing. In return, they expect to protected and provided for. This has been the trade that men and women have been making forever.
In my experience, once you establish all of the above with a woman, she's going to think you hung the moon. She'll never stray, unless you do first. And, as long as you keep all of the above in tact, she's always going to be 100% loyal to you.
Just like a well trained dog.
[/quote1241721174]
___________________________________
Interesting.
B R what do you think about FB v. GF? Do you think there are different qualities for each? Well, not different, but rather, different ones apply to FB v. GF?
You listed: Healthy Fear, Expectations, Respect and Pride. Do you think some apply only to a girlfriend? In my mind, I think for a mutual fuck buddy relationship, Fear isn't really all that important.
How do you think this could apply to Smirks situation? Not to derail the thread, I just see connections is all.
Good stuff.
[/quote1241729685]
Pretty much none of those apply to a FB, except for respect. One of the reasons that she's willing to be a FB is that you use discretion and that you don't needlessly waste her time. All too often, women will enter into a FB type relationship as a last ditched effort to keep a guy in her life. A healthy FB relationship, if there is such a thing, typically has the frame of "I enjoy hanging out with you, but we have no plans, we have no future, we're just enjoying this for what it is, it will end."
Women are more than capable of having a relationship like this. But, they are definitely finite for many reasons. She meets someone else. You meet someone else. One of the two of you develop feelings for the other. She begins to feel used.
In the case of an FB the dynamics that I've noticed the most were things like:
1) Discretion, which I already mentioned.
2) Respect for her time, again I already mentioned that.
3) Don't be oblivious to what's going on. In other words, don't try to make this into something it's not, don't be afraid to call her and say 'hey, you want to come over for a drink and some sex?' She's a smart person. She understands what's going on. Don't belittle her by trying to hide the obvious.
Relating to Smirks. Well, I think that it may be that he's not demanding enough from them. Shit, I think most men don't demand enough from women.
Me, I come right out and say what I expect of her. But, this is the key, I don't tell that directly to them.
I use examples instead, something like this:
Bull Run: "You know those people that get in a relationship and let themselves go?"
Potential LTR: "Yeah..."
Bull Run: Then I point to a fat chick, "I bet she's no of those people."
This begins an entire conversation in which she'll talk about how disgusting that is or how the fat person is taking advantage of the other person's love. Essentially what you've done is implicitly tell her what you expect and you've done so in a way so that she repeats it as part of HER value system. It's very subtle, but women get subtle. You're job is now done. She gets it.
The great thing about expectations is that it reduces the stress in a relationship. You see, people are awesome at coping with issues. Take the stock market. It hates uncertainty. Give it good news, give it bad news and it can price that news in accordingly. But, give it no news and it automatically sells off.
Women are the same. If they don't know what you expect, then they don't know how to please you. And, that's exactly what women want. They want to make you happy.
- Guest
by Guest » Wed May 13, 2009 1:10 pm
This works, I use this as a reaction for a negative open on a girl I want to pawn to talk to her friend on 3+ sets.
After the opener and start of routine, I personally love the cologne test, and before that indicate a time constraint, works good, say it's a sample of Creed something and $300 a bottle, say that you want good opinion before you ante up for a bottle. After her first test, ask her to rate it, then ask her to see if she can pick out a subtly note of it. at which point after she has given the info, she will either engage or disengage based on whether she finds you attractive, if she wants to disengage, right away attempt to number close, is she says no. do not neg her, slide the convo, say actually I came over and approached you so I could talk to your friend, is she single?
Even if she disqualified you, she will introduce if she knows her friend is looking, if not, eject after you thank her for her opinion.
Regroup, take a shot and head back out.
This has worked for me and is a staple in my club game.
After the opener and start of routine, I personally love the cologne test, and before that indicate a time constraint, works good, say it's a sample of Creed something and $300 a bottle, say that you want good opinion before you ante up for a bottle. After her first test, ask her to rate it, then ask her to see if she can pick out a subtly note of it. at which point after she has given the info, she will either engage or disengage based on whether she finds you attractive, if she wants to disengage, right away attempt to number close, is she says no. do not neg her, slide the convo, say actually I came over and approached you so I could talk to your friend, is she single?
Even if she disqualified you, she will introduce if she knows her friend is looking, if not, eject after you thank her for her opinion.
Regroup, take a shot and head back out.
This has worked for me and is a staple in my club game.
- Guest
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