Sinn and the Dallas Lair

[Guest]

Is it just me or is this all one big game?

It is in the nature of humans to assert themselves at the top of the ladder. "Guru's" have attained "top of the ladder" and since there are very few spots at the top of this ladder people "challenge" guru's. A little bit of competition is healthy as it keeps you on point personally.

I don't see it as them lying, I see it as them remaining at the top, I am not making a comment on their skill, which I have seen Sinn game and make out with a girl that looked like PC's girl, but it is a "social game". I agree with BR they are selling themselves, but I don't see them lying.

I listened to the audio too, and I didn't hear anything as well. Sinn as gone on record in the past though, and said things about the Dallas lair.

Since they are selling themselves it is in their interest to bolster their status, (and if you were following the alpha male discussion in the General Lounge) then it's easy to see why he would try and discredit us, as a lair. True he has pulled probably countless hippos, but I have seen him pull hot girls as well, granted in fewer masses.

Regardless, Am I the only one that see's this as one big social ladder game?

[Guest]

Crap I listened to the whole thing and I didn't hear any mention of the dallas lair or myself. Are you sure it was this one, and if so, about when was the mention? I would have liked to have quoted it here for people who didn't want to listen to the entire thing.

As for the various opinions about Sinn and gurus in general, I believe that in general, what it takes to be a good teacher and what it takes to be a good practitioner are very different, in any field. Teaching or doing is not automatically easier or harder, but it is a different skillset. A business teacher might not be able to run a business, but it doesn't automatically mean he's a bad teache. Terrell Owens wouldn't make a good coach or personal trainer either.

A lot of guys who get good automatically believe they can teach, which is why there are so many awful pick-up instructors out there. One reason is I think a lot of them are out of touch with why their students have difficulty.

I'd also say that "knowledge" does not a good instructor make. A walking encyclopedia of pickup is worse than useless. What's useful is someone who has [i]perception[/i]. Who can see when what you're doing is working or not working, when you can't. Like a coach or trainer in any other activity. Again, this is a different skill from being good.

As for Sinn and the Dallas Lair specifically, I am guessing it's a problem of generalization. He perhaps said that there are dorky, awkward guys in the Dallas Lair, or maybe generalized that [i]everyone[/i] in the Dallas Lair is dorky and awkward. Likewise in this thread people are saying he once pulled an ugly girl, therefore he usually does or always does. I didn't see it, though I don't have reason to doubt it. In my own experience, he talks to hot women and also to average women.

As for someone from the Dallas Lair actively trying to mess him up, (which at this point is still pure speculation as to whether that's actually what he said) I know one individual who DOES try to blow out any professional he recognizes. I think he confuses AMOGing with wrecking a set, and therefore thinks that wrecking a set is a test of the pro's skill. I think he does it to tear down the professional (or build himself up) in his own mind. I no longer associate with him.

Reddaj, let me know if you can find the original source where he talks about the Dallas Lair (and me!)

[Guest]

fin i see that as well, and as br says anyone in the business of self promotion should be taken with a game of salt, but as you point out, arent we all?

[Guest]

If I looked long enough, I could post links to where I found them having the "guys messing with them" issue, but its frankly not worth my time to do so. Just know I didnt pull that statement out my arse. As to 100% what happen, Im not sure, as i wasnt there. The statments were in reference to them trying to run a boot camp, or out sarging, and guys making like diffuclt, trying to prove something.

Either way, it does come down to the golden rule, or Kant's Categorical Imperative, if your so inclined :)

[Guest]

[quote1236384473=Welsh_Dragon]
I am also anxious to hear comments from Grimm. Apparently, according to a post above, he went clubbing with Sinn. I have never personally met or validated any understanding from Grimm (no offense) .. however .. how did this "clubbing" go down? Was the previous poster suggesting Grimm "schooled" Sinn or what?
[/quote1236384473]

What's up?

I haven't gone clubbing with Sinn, I think there was a miscommunication there.

Have seen him out a few times, I am laughing over here b/c I know what you guys are talking about though I don't think it's fair to rip on the guy in a public forum. He didn't do anything to us.

[Guest]

ahh fuck it, it's funny.

[Guest]

[quote1236388030=Welsh_Dragon]
An interesting and revealing thread.

What do you guys expect from Sinn? Or any of the "gurus" for that matter? Why is the prevalent aspersion cast on his perceived "lack of quality"? You really don't get it, IMO, if your main goals are rating girls 1-10 and pumping your ego by parading around with stupud "hot" club/bar sluts. Mostly I would rather poke out my own eyeballs than hang around with dumb stupid girls just to try and look cool. Miss the point much??

BTW I have zero ulterior motive here. I really don't care what Sinn does. I do give him some credit for the blog, the Sinn publicity machine. I believe some people get benefit from his programs. Having met the guy personally I can tell you that he was not a douche to me. He does understand the concepts, and is very intellegent and innovative. He is a person you can learn from BUT learning is a two way street. As you might expect he is very guarded (and ultimately vulnerable).

Would I pay for his services? No. That having been said I have been a mentor (of sorts) and it is no easy task. I don't envy his job even one little bit. This shit is not easy to teach at the best of times. Haters rolling around causing trouble pointing out the 5s and 6s you are conversing with really would just make a person angry plus it KILLS energy, which I'm sure he runs into a lot. Looks SHOULD NOT MATTER TO YOU in a social context, be it a girl's or guy's. Being able to internalize the irrelevence of looks, ego, perceived value, etc.. and not be worried about your "rep" is surely part of core skill requirements, no???? No decent woman, hot or not, respects a guy who is hung up on looks. Women actively screen against it.

Success in PU, as in life, first requires you to cast out all external validation and social pressure. Easy to say, hard to do. Everyone's brain is "pinging" whe a hot girl is around. Few can get to the core by challenging her for more. Just my 2c.

I am also anxious to hear comments from Grimm. Apparently, according to a post above, he went clubbing with Sinn. I have never personally met or validated any understanding from Grimm (no offense) .. however .. how did this "clubbing" go down? Was the previous poster suggesting Grimm "schooled" Sinn or what?
[/quote1236388030]

What do I expect???

I expect a guy who claims to be the world's greatest or second greatest pu artist in the world to show me something. I expect to see him out gaming the hottest girls in the venue...I mean seriously who would you rather take home a 5 or a 10? If he is really that good why would he bother with a 5? How does that make any sense? The guy cares nothing about a GF I would imagine. He wanted to get his dick wet. Why stick it in a 5 if you are the greatest pu artist in the world? Why would you do that??????????????????

What do looks matter? Are you fucking kidding me? Surely you are just saying that for the hell of it.

I don't understand the point of reading and learning any of this material if you care nothing about looks. Just go hit on all the nastiest girls on earth. I promise you, you will have a date every night of the week.

I can't believe you guys want an instructor who doesn't have the skills it takes to meet and date the hottest girls. This to me is the end game. Sure you say the hottest girls are dumber than dirt. Well I must say this is just false. Yes I have met and nexted some hotties. Yes there have been some that are just fucking retarded. But I have also met some that are fucking awesome who would out IQ me. Now granted I will say on average a 7 has probably been the best number. I have met some incredible 7s who I would probably date if I wasn't in my single stage. Plus yes I am the guy who wants the hottest girl. I am the guy who wants heads to turn when I walk in a venue and girl in tow. Yes this is me. Yes I want a trophy wife. Yes I want everyone to be jealous of the girl I am nailing. She still has to have everything else going for her too though for me to consider actually dating her.

Ohh and the women who mainly screen against looks like you say Have the LOWEST SELF ESTEEM in the world. They are worried you are trying to look good because you want to attract other women. If she was secure in herself she would want you to look your best.

[Guest]

Some misunderstandings above, which I won't address now. Suffice to say my point was that not a whole shit load of girls are both hot and cool. So JUST judging by looks is not appropriate, and nor is it impressive to just parade around with bimbos. Just my opinion, and it's not even a strong one. Some of my good friends do it and thats fine for them. It doesn't make me feel better about myself.

I'm not defending his leaving with uglies but that has never been validated (by me). Is it for sure they were not pawns? Or whatever else. Did he use them to get to hotties? I have nothing against hotties don't get me wrong. It doesn't matter if he just talked to uggers or whatever, does it? Was he gaming them? Snogging? Do you have to be stuck up and not even acknowledge 6 or below? I think that's kinda shitty (and against what a PUA should be).

For your point about screening .. I'm not saying they screen just against looks .. they see it up front and screen for misuse and toady personality (which often comes along with). Hard to explain.

It also depends on what you want out of it all. If you want the trophy fair play.

[Guest]

Also wanted to add I do agree with a lot of your points, after re-read. Few crossed wires I think. We may not have exact same goals, etc.. Maybe I do write stuff for the hell of it .. and its also hard to get across points in posts.

[Guest]

I am such an idiot, I realized I gave you guys the wrong link. here it is:

[url=http://sofa.pdot.com/audio/Sinn and the Cities - 3.mp3]http://sofa.pdot.com/audio/Sinn and the Cities - 3.mp3[/url]

To save you from listening to the whole thing, flip to 28:50