Two years.

[Guest]

Exactly two years ago, the weekend of November 17-19 2006, I drove to Austin to take a bootcamp with Sinn. My bootcamp, and my involvement with the community more broadly, has made a big difference in my life, and lately I have been thinking about where I have been, and where I am going.

Before I found the community
* I had no options with women, and very few sexual encounters.
* I felt the world was unfair, that it was stacked against men, because in my experience, the men were always offering, and the women were always choosing, meaning that women held all the sexual power.
* I had few friends outside of work, and my overall lifestyle was not very social.
* My image of how courtship should work was roughly in alignment with the hollywood image.
* I felt I had the qualities women "should" want, and therefore I did not need to do anything differently. If they failed to see how much I had to offer, that's their tragedy, not mine. I felt that in some moral righteous sense I shouldn't have to do or be anything other than what I was.

After my bootcamp and my experiences shortly thereafter, I experienced a major reframe and conditions improved for me dramatically. (I don't think bootcamps are for everyone, but for me it got me started on a big change.)
* I had female friends, some I was sexual with, and some I was not.
* I had options sexually, and I knew I could get more.
* While I previously thought the world was unfair, I now understood the world was asymmetric, but not unfair. In fact there are major advantages to being a man, among them the fact that attractiveness is largely non-physical, meaning it can be improved. Women are largely stuck with whatever attractiveness they're born with.
* I grew to have friends outside of work and be more social generally.
* I learned the hollywood image of courtship was bullshit.
* I learned the distinction between what women "should" want, what they say they want, and what they do want. Men and women think in very different ways, and the way I had projected from my own psychology what women "should" want was grossly unrealistic. It is what it is.

For me it was an entirely new (and better) life, which has been getting better and better over the past 2 years.

But what I really wanted, even from the beginning, I have not yet found. And I'm starting to think that doing more of what I've been doing, even if I were to get more and more skilled, and incrementally happier, might not get me to my goal, which is to find the woman who is so exceptional that I can stop looking. Who delights not only body (the easy part), but also mind, and if I may, soul.

Assuming such a person exists (and I believe she does), wouldn't I inevitably find her by gaming more and better? If not, why not?

Here's my thinking. Both venue and behavior (game) act to filter the options. I've been gaming almost exclusively in bars. And not coincidentally, the techniques I learned are geared toward typical women found in bars. What if I got extremely good at gaming the typical woman found in a bar? Sure, I might get laid a lot. But if the woman I truly want is not that type, then I will encounter her only rarely, and my ordinarily successful behaviors might be horrible for winning her.

So I'm taking a step back and considering the broader picture. More women from bars may not help me. What do I really find fulfilling? Where would I find such a woman?

I believe that women who are highly socialized, who partied a lot in high school, and who go to bars a lot, develop a princess complex in direct relation to their physical attractiveness. Moreso if that's all they have. The world teaches them they don't have to be especially smart, and they know they can treat men poorly and get away with it, in the sense that it won't cause most men to stop trying to get in their pants.

Contrast with a hypothetical "non-bar" type who is equally attractive physically, but who stays home and reads, instead of going out. She might be much more genuine, and more interested in establishing a real connection. Perhaps she can better appreciate some of the qualities I have, and treats men better in general. Perhaps she is also smarter and therefore better at keeping an interesting conversation.

The non-bar woman may be a businesswoman, nurse, writer, teacher, engineer, or many other categories, but she is probably not a waitress, bartender, model, or stripper.

Ironically, I suspect winning over the non-bar type might be the least influenced by "game" and most influenced by character, which can be changed over time, but can't really be faked.

(The party-girl vs. non-bar girl is an extreme simplification, if not pure delusion, but I think the concept is useful in helping me clarify what I want.)

In a way, I feel like I've had a diversion. Like if my goal were to be a tennis champion but I had been training for a marathon. The experience is good in general, and indirectly helpful to the specific goal, but it won't get me there.

But it's funny how things work out sometimes, because without the techniques and women pulled from bars, I probably wouldn't have gotten much closer to figuring out what I ultimately want. Even knowing what I know now, I'd do it all over again.

What does this mean for the future? While my perspective on my personal long term goals is changing somewhat, some things are NOT changing: I still enjoy meeting the guys, and helping when I can. Of course I like my friends just as much as before. And I am no less interested in meeting new women for the shorter term, even in bars. This mental reframe might even make me more motivated in bar settings. We'll see.

In the end, I think this change in perspective just means that over the next weeks and months I'll be diversifying into other means of meeting women in addition to the cold approach. It should be interesting. I'm looking forward to it.

[Guest]

I think the gym and tanning salon are a good place to meet girls! ;-)

Your party girl/non-bar girl reference is interesting. Lately I've forumulated the same concept. Whenever I meet a girl I like to ask them where they'd place themselves on the party girl vs. career woman spectrum.

I've found the more women I date, the better I become, the higher quality women I seem to find/attract. Congrats on your progress and keep at it, those women with good looks that are worth keeping long term are tough to find.

[Guest]

Good for you vector. Always follow your personal goals :) Sounds like you need to do more day game in venues that you would find the kind of person you are looking for in and social circle building in the same areas. But I'm sure you know all this ;) You may be right that the non-bar type is not going to be impressed by some of the 'game' stuff, but the basics of leading, being high value, etc are going to carry over for sure.

[Guest]

I'm confident you will find what you are looking for.

I have actually met some quality girls in the bar setting. To find the good girls look for sets with multiple girls. I have noticed the bigger sets have a much higher chance of having a girl who doesn't go to bars very much. She is there for a girls night out or something else along those lines. She goes to a bar once a month to just have fun.

While I don't do any day game I would have to agree that is where you might find a different type of girl. For example that girl in the Walmart the other night. I mean she was so into the idea of playing chess with us and she was crazy hot. A girl like that in a bar would have told us to fuck off.

Nice write up though I love when people do these.

[Guest]

[quote1227053679=playercool]


I have actually met some quality girls in the bar setting. To find the good girls look for sets with multiple girls. I have noticed the bigger sets have a much higher chance of having a girl who doesn't go to bars very much. She is there for a girls night out or something else along those lines. She goes to a bar once a month to just have fun.

[/quote1227053679]

Great observation PC.. (side note: on that topic, but not to derail thread, I'll often go hang at Pete's in addison for a few hours before going to Finn or sherlocks. That place is packed for girls night outs/bachelorette parties. Lot of seated sets, but people move around in the back and head up to the bar and so forth. I often see a lot of attractive women there that don't look like you typical barfly. People bitch about the $8 cover, but that's the price of a jack and coke at Social House. maybe some of us should check that out one night earlier in the night.

Nice post Vector! I can relate to a lot of what you said there. good stuff.

[Guest]

great post vector. you have many valid observations of which all are true; i agee with you wholeheartedly. i also think that the party girl is for short term fun whereas the non-bar girl, you can have a real ltr with; a true connection...not knowing you very well, i believe you will be successful in your search...and good luck on your cold approaches..let us know how it goes...

hey topdog..im down for pete's...maybe on one of the friday night sarges or something...

[Guest]

A pastor from CA said "Marriage is not about meeting a right person. It's about becoming a right person."

This quote is pretty interesting. When girls are done messing around, they will start looking for their "Mr. Right." They will say such things like "Oh I want a guy who is this this and that." (they want this this and that but they rarely ever think about what they are lacking for their Mr. Right) It is true that he/she needs to have certain quality for others to be attracted. For example, I want a girl who is loyal, fun, smart, blah blah few other qualities. That's not enough to be my Ms. Right even if she has all the qualities I want. When one truly thinks and considers (willing to sacrifice for each other) for someone and vise versa, that's when you become the right person for each other.

Though, I don't know how many girls have such thoughts like this out there.

Congratz on ur transformation vector and keep it up. good job!

[Guest]

Hey Vector,

I'm curious.

How has society and the general beliefs that society hold affect these recent thoughts?

[Guest]

[quote1227075292=Sleek]
A pastor from CA said "Marriage is not about meeting a right person. It's about becoming a right person."

This quote is pretty interesting.
[/quote1227075292]

I met a girl a couple weeks ago. It turns out she is pretty religious. Here is a quote she has on her myspace that I found to be interesting. In fact so much that I can't get it out of my head.

"You come to love not by finding the perfect person but by seeing an imperfect person perfectly".

This resonates well with me since I keep finding flaws in every girl I meet and don't give them much of a chance.

[Guest]

You guys are right, in case I gave the wrong impression, let me clarify that I'm talking about minimum requirements. Necessary, but not sufficient. There is no list of qualities that can entirely describe if someone is right for me. But I feel a lot of women are disqualified from the beginning, meaning I need to look elsewhere and possibly behave differently.

As for the role of society's generally held beliefs, I don't think it has played any role. None that I am aware of.

Another thing I'll mention is self-esteem, which is correlated with, but distinct from the party-girl / non-bar girl distinction. I know some say that all attractive women have low self-esteem, and the more attractive, the lower their self-esteem. I disagree. They may be uncommon, but they do exist. However, I can also see how choice of venue can represent a very different proportion, and responsiveness to "game" could screen out the remaining few, leaving 100% of the successes with low self esteem women. So the observation could be correct, while the generalization is incorrect. That's good news, because I definitely don't want to resign myself to having to be with a low self-esteem woman.