Okay, so we all know that confidence attracts women. No doubt about it. In fact, if you think you're the fucking shit with women, you find more reason to believe that and that belief gets stronger and stronger. Cognitive dissonance and all that jazz. Right?
My problem with this though, is that usually if you think you're all that you end up becoming complacent. You stop actively trying to improve and you settle with your current skill level. But if you don't think you're any good with chicks, it'll be a self-fulfilling prophecy too!
What a catch-22. Imagine a guy with absolutely no game. If he recognizes that fact (which he should) then he hopefully will try to improve. But girls can tell when a guy has no belief in his own abilities with women. Sure, as he accumulates more experience he will EVENTUALLY start changing his beliefs, but it'll be a long and hard process.
On the other hand, if this guy, against all logic and reason, thinks that he's AMAZING with girls, he'll start off by doing much better. But because he already thinks he's so great, he won't strive to improve as hard as someone who thinks he's no good.
Does that make any sense? I used to be an arrogant asshole a few years ago and thought I was amazing with women... sure I got a bit of action but a lot of people hated me and I never improved. Now I've mellowed out and actively work on my sticking points and analyze my weaknesses, but I notice that by taking the "student" frame I don't get as much success as I probably should. Thoughts?
Dallas PUA
The Pickup Artist Playground
Confidence vs. Modesty
9 posts
• Page 1 of 1
by Guest » Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:25 pm
why dont you step back from it all and see what you have internalized... then go from there. if you need to be a student then be a student... if you need to be a player be a player... its about shifting your paradigms in order to stay congruent with yourself or make adjustments... analyze much ??? ;)
- Guest
by Guest » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:36 pm
[quote1226449435=Acuity]
Okay, so we all know that confidence attracts women. No doubt about it. In fact, if you think you're the fucking shit with women, you find more reason to believe that and that belief gets stronger and stronger. Cognitive dissonance and all that jazz. Right?
[b][i]Yes to an extent. You should always feel good about yourself. I won't leave the house(Friday/Saturday night) until I like my outfit and my hair is at least 90%. Even at the point I am at this can mess with my night. For some reason if I don't think things are just right my confidence drops. And you can bet your ass so does my night. So yes always feel like the shit. But even with that said it can only take you so far.[/i][/b]
My problem with this though, is that usually if you think you're all that you end up becoming complacent. You stop actively trying to improve and you settle with your current skill level. But if you don't think you're any good with chicks, it'll be a self-fulfilling prophecy too!
[b][i]There is no doubt that my game hit a plateau long ago. You really have to want it to continue spiking. I started working on other areas though such as style and that elevated my overall persona. Your game should constantly be leveling off though. So you get a little better and then stay there for a while. It is ok when this happens because then you have time to internalize what you have learned. Once this happens you will spike again. Keep in mind everything you are learning is what will make you a natural. You will no longer think you will just act and react.[/i][/b]
What a catch-22. Imagine a guy with absolutely no game. If he recognizes that fact (which he should) then he hopefully will try to improve. But girls can tell when a guy has no belief in his own abilities with women. Sure, as he accumulates more experience he will EVENTUALLY start changing his beliefs, but it'll be a long and hard process.
[b][i]Anyone with no game should start small. Baby Steps! Fine so the group of girls you are sarging are 5's. Ohh well at least they are attracted to you. It doesn't mean you have to sleep with them.
When I started out I pretty much talked to everyone in the venue...yes even the uggs. And I will say I didn't start off nailing the hottest girls. This builds confidence. As you progress so should your standards. In fact now if you see me out I am so freaking picky these days I almost never sarge. [/i][/b]
On the other hand, if this guy, against all logic and reason, thinks that he's AMAZING with girls, he'll start off by doing much better. But because he already thinks he's so great, he won't strive to improve as hard as someone who thinks he's no good.
[b][i]Everyone will progress at a different speed. I used to go out 4 days a week consistently. Most of the people who come this community probably average 1 day a week. And then they wonder why they don't get good and you never see them again. Those of us who take this seriously and really want to see results will make it happen no matter where there confidence level is. Most people never put forth the effort at anything in life and quit.[/i][/b]
Does that make any sense? I used to be an arrogant asshole a few years ago and thought I was amazing with women... sure I got a bit of action but a lot of people hated me and I never improved. Now I've mellowed out and actively work on my sticking points and analyze my weaknesses, but I notice that by taking the "student" frame I don't get as much success as I probably should. Thoughts?
[b][i]Be willing to find success from your accomplishments and your mistakes. Take it one step farther and use others success and mistakes to help you along the way. Your a smart person if you can learn from your mistakes. Your a much smarter person if you can learn from the mistakes of others. Take what used to work and start to incorporate that a little. Figure out what didn't work and make people hate you. This entire journey is about finding out what is congruent with you [b]personally[/b]. Something I do might not work for you and vise versa. Think back on your success and failures in field. Figure out what works so you can get past that point and progress.
The first time I met you I liked what I saw. I thought you would get very good if you stuck with it. I am actually somewhat surprised you haven't found the success you strive for.[/i][/b]
[/quote1226449435]
Okay, so we all know that confidence attracts women. No doubt about it. In fact, if you think you're the fucking shit with women, you find more reason to believe that and that belief gets stronger and stronger. Cognitive dissonance and all that jazz. Right?
[b][i]Yes to an extent. You should always feel good about yourself. I won't leave the house(Friday/Saturday night) until I like my outfit and my hair is at least 90%. Even at the point I am at this can mess with my night. For some reason if I don't think things are just right my confidence drops. And you can bet your ass so does my night. So yes always feel like the shit. But even with that said it can only take you so far.[/i][/b]
My problem with this though, is that usually if you think you're all that you end up becoming complacent. You stop actively trying to improve and you settle with your current skill level. But if you don't think you're any good with chicks, it'll be a self-fulfilling prophecy too!
[b][i]There is no doubt that my game hit a plateau long ago. You really have to want it to continue spiking. I started working on other areas though such as style and that elevated my overall persona. Your game should constantly be leveling off though. So you get a little better and then stay there for a while. It is ok when this happens because then you have time to internalize what you have learned. Once this happens you will spike again. Keep in mind everything you are learning is what will make you a natural. You will no longer think you will just act and react.[/i][/b]
What a catch-22. Imagine a guy with absolutely no game. If he recognizes that fact (which he should) then he hopefully will try to improve. But girls can tell when a guy has no belief in his own abilities with women. Sure, as he accumulates more experience he will EVENTUALLY start changing his beliefs, but it'll be a long and hard process.
[b][i]Anyone with no game should start small. Baby Steps! Fine so the group of girls you are sarging are 5's. Ohh well at least they are attracted to you. It doesn't mean you have to sleep with them.
When I started out I pretty much talked to everyone in the venue...yes even the uggs. And I will say I didn't start off nailing the hottest girls. This builds confidence. As you progress so should your standards. In fact now if you see me out I am so freaking picky these days I almost never sarge. [/i][/b]
On the other hand, if this guy, against all logic and reason, thinks that he's AMAZING with girls, he'll start off by doing much better. But because he already thinks he's so great, he won't strive to improve as hard as someone who thinks he's no good.
[b][i]Everyone will progress at a different speed. I used to go out 4 days a week consistently. Most of the people who come this community probably average 1 day a week. And then they wonder why they don't get good and you never see them again. Those of us who take this seriously and really want to see results will make it happen no matter where there confidence level is. Most people never put forth the effort at anything in life and quit.[/i][/b]
Does that make any sense? I used to be an arrogant asshole a few years ago and thought I was amazing with women... sure I got a bit of action but a lot of people hated me and I never improved. Now I've mellowed out and actively work on my sticking points and analyze my weaknesses, but I notice that by taking the "student" frame I don't get as much success as I probably should. Thoughts?
[b][i]Be willing to find success from your accomplishments and your mistakes. Take it one step farther and use others success and mistakes to help you along the way. Your a smart person if you can learn from your mistakes. Your a much smarter person if you can learn from the mistakes of others. Take what used to work and start to incorporate that a little. Figure out what didn't work and make people hate you. This entire journey is about finding out what is congruent with you [b]personally[/b]. Something I do might not work for you and vise versa. Think back on your success and failures in field. Figure out what works so you can get past that point and progress.
The first time I met you I liked what I saw. I thought you would get very good if you stuck with it. I am actually somewhat surprised you haven't found the success you strive for.[/i][/b]
[/quote1226449435]
- Guest
by Guest » Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:33 pm
[quote]The first time I met you I liked what I saw. I thought you would get very good if you stuck with it. I am actually somewhat surprised you haven't found the success you strive for.[/quote]
Agreed. Can't really advise since you know I'm not even as good as you but you're doing the work and working on sticking points and you'll get where you want to eventually. Most of the people whose stories I've seen here it takes them quite a while to get good and you've been doing this a few months, so I think if you just stick to it and keep working on elevating your game you'll get to where you want to be. You've got all the building blocks you need to get there - good looks, good personality, self confidence. Just a matter of experience and fitting all the pieces into place. Also keep working on your DJ stuff besides the fact that I'm sure you like doing it that is going to be money for you down the line :)
Agreed. Can't really advise since you know I'm not even as good as you but you're doing the work and working on sticking points and you'll get where you want to eventually. Most of the people whose stories I've seen here it takes them quite a while to get good and you've been doing this a few months, so I think if you just stick to it and keep working on elevating your game you'll get to where you want to be. You've got all the building blocks you need to get there - good looks, good personality, self confidence. Just a matter of experience and fitting all the pieces into place. Also keep working on your DJ stuff besides the fact that I'm sure you like doing it that is going to be money for you down the line :)
- Guest
by Guest » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:57 am
You're looking at it wrong. If a girl sees that a guy doesn't trust his abilities with women, she will also recognize that he approached her out of the blue (at least if a PUA does it). He is trying to improve.
And you are mixing correlation with causation, Acuity. An AFC won't have success with girls because he doesn't have the skills to do so. Because he doesn't have the skills, he recognizes he doesn't have the skills, so he does poorly. He approaches and improves, however. Why does he improve? Because he gains knowledge of the tools to use, gaining skill.
If a guy is picking up 10 girls a night, of course he will confidence in his abilities and will think he is the shit. Because he IS the shit. He's getting 10 girls a night!!
Like Solace said, it's all internal. Don't get so caught up in all this analysis and theory that you miss out on the real world experience. I'm starting to understand that everything I learned in Mystery Method and The Game doesn't apply because I can't even correctly identify the situation for the routine they want me to use.
When in doubt, sarge it out. Field Test to the Extreme!!!!
--Skepsis
And you are mixing correlation with causation, Acuity. An AFC won't have success with girls because he doesn't have the skills to do so. Because he doesn't have the skills, he recognizes he doesn't have the skills, so he does poorly. He approaches and improves, however. Why does he improve? Because he gains knowledge of the tools to use, gaining skill.
If a guy is picking up 10 girls a night, of course he will confidence in his abilities and will think he is the shit. Because he IS the shit. He's getting 10 girls a night!!
Like Solace said, it's all internal. Don't get so caught up in all this analysis and theory that you miss out on the real world experience. I'm starting to understand that everything I learned in Mystery Method and The Game doesn't apply because I can't even correctly identify the situation for the routine they want me to use.
When in doubt, sarge it out. Field Test to the Extreme!!!!
--Skepsis
- Guest
by Guest » Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:06 am
I think I understand what you're referring to, Acuity, and I think the answer to the problem is to teach yourself to stay humble.
But more important than remaining modest in the eyes of your peers in the community is that you remain humble to how you view yourself.
Its perfectly ok to believe yourself to be a baddass motherfuckin pimp...hell I have a pretty big ego myself, I'll admit that.
But its not ok (and, just as you suggest, counter productive) to assume that you've gotten to a point in your skillset that is above most everyone else and you have little else to learn. The second you tell yourself that, you're going to start avoiding admission of failure rather than learning (and improving from) from those failures.
A good way to look at it is this:
There will ALWAYS be someone better than you regardless of how good you are and there's always something new to learn.
That is something to remember anytime you hear a new guy (or even a guy you feel is on equal terms with you) give you advice. Always take advice into realistic consideration before disregarding it.
Case in point: I was chatting up a girl at a bar in Denton last weekend. She wound up walking off, and I shrugged my shoulders as I usually do and went on to the next.
A buddy of mine that was with us (non-community, and, frankly, has very little game) turned to me and said something along the lines of Man, why where you such a dick to her? She was hot!
I didn't really respond to him, I just smiled smugly assuming I knew what I was doing and he couldn't possibly have a clue like I do.
Of course, I didn't wind up even getting that chick's number...and I went over the whole thing in my head later that night and realized he was totally right....I did neg her too much
(possibly out of habit from going out to Dallas/Addison too much? who knows :) )
Lesson learned, though, was that I shouldn't have ignored his advice purely on the basis that I'm able to work my way into a chick's pants more often than him. His advice was based on an external vantage point that I was missing and, had I taken his suggestion into consideration, I might have been able to recalibrate my game and possibly recover that girl.
So the key to this 'Catch 22' is modesty. Keep that in check (don't just fake it), and you'll open yourself up to alot of potential for improvement.
But more important than remaining modest in the eyes of your peers in the community is that you remain humble to how you view yourself.
Its perfectly ok to believe yourself to be a baddass motherfuckin pimp...hell I have a pretty big ego myself, I'll admit that.
But its not ok (and, just as you suggest, counter productive) to assume that you've gotten to a point in your skillset that is above most everyone else and you have little else to learn. The second you tell yourself that, you're going to start avoiding admission of failure rather than learning (and improving from) from those failures.
A good way to look at it is this:
There will ALWAYS be someone better than you regardless of how good you are and there's always something new to learn.
That is something to remember anytime you hear a new guy (or even a guy you feel is on equal terms with you) give you advice. Always take advice into realistic consideration before disregarding it.
Case in point: I was chatting up a girl at a bar in Denton last weekend. She wound up walking off, and I shrugged my shoulders as I usually do and went on to the next.
A buddy of mine that was with us (non-community, and, frankly, has very little game) turned to me and said something along the lines of Man, why where you such a dick to her? She was hot!
I didn't really respond to him, I just smiled smugly assuming I knew what I was doing and he couldn't possibly have a clue like I do.
Of course, I didn't wind up even getting that chick's number...and I went over the whole thing in my head later that night and realized he was totally right....I did neg her too much
(possibly out of habit from going out to Dallas/Addison too much? who knows :) )
Lesson learned, though, was that I shouldn't have ignored his advice purely on the basis that I'm able to work my way into a chick's pants more often than him. His advice was based on an external vantage point that I was missing and, had I taken his suggestion into consideration, I might have been able to recalibrate my game and possibly recover that girl.
So the key to this 'Catch 22' is modesty. Keep that in check (don't just fake it), and you'll open yourself up to alot of potential for improvement.
- Guest
by Guest » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:50 am
All girls are not the same.. But the overall basis for the most part is.
Something I've improved very quickly on in just the last week is callibrating myself and actions on the spot.. Sounds insane but its almost like being able to see the interaction and sets energy and just fill in the holes.. I'm working with Solace on something that I think we can all benefit from.. And will have it ready for all to utilize on Thursday for Solaces day game class.
Let's make this more of a community. Egos/arrogance left at the door.. And brotherhood working in unison embraced.
One thing I will take pride in and brag a bit about is my ability to read micro expressions, body language and "auras" for calibration... Try watching any seasonal show on TV with absolutley no volume for 3 hours a day :)
Anyways I don't want to spill too much.. Meet up with us this Thursday Acuity.. I got something you'll absolutley love :D
Something I've improved very quickly on in just the last week is callibrating myself and actions on the spot.. Sounds insane but its almost like being able to see the interaction and sets energy and just fill in the holes.. I'm working with Solace on something that I think we can all benefit from.. And will have it ready for all to utilize on Thursday for Solaces day game class.
Let's make this more of a community. Egos/arrogance left at the door.. And brotherhood working in unison embraced.
One thing I will take pride in and brag a bit about is my ability to read micro expressions, body language and "auras" for calibration... Try watching any seasonal show on TV with absolutley no volume for 3 hours a day :)
Anyways I don't want to spill too much.. Meet up with us this Thursday Acuity.. I got something you'll absolutley love :D
- Guest
by Guest » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:03 am
Thanks guys, that helps, although I think I could have made myself clearer. I'm a firm believer that "beliefs manifest themselves" and my post was based off of that. Basically if you truly believe you're good with girls, you tend to find evidence of that to support your belief in the real world, and thus naturally act more confident and better with girls. Of course the reverse is also true.
I think the answer, as you said Alphamo, is to stay modest while still knowing that you're good.
Tristan you know I never turn down the weekly Thursday Purg night.. I'll see you out there !
I think the answer, as you said Alphamo, is to stay modest while still knowing that you're good.
Tristan you know I never turn down the weekly Thursday Purg night.. I'll see you out there !
- Guest
by Guest » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:05 pm
strive for excellence not perfection. Being optimistic is highly beneficial to improving yourself, but being realistic is necessary also. Realistically we all have faults. Have the serinity to accept what you can't change, the courage to change what you can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
- Guest
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