New Sticking Point...

[Guest]

I met this girl in Denton (where I live) a couple weeks ago or so.

She seems fairly cool...but the main problem I had with her at first was her age.
Shes 19...and while I didn't have too much of a fair basis for this claim...I could just imagine she's the new-to-college-drama-filled-clingy type.

So last night, we were txting and I got home from work around 12ish.
We'd txted a couple times back and forth since I got her #, but hadn't met up since then.

I agreed I'd meet up with her to get some grub....I decided I wanted to meet her first to prove/disprove the drama-girl stereotype I had of her in my mind.

So we meet up and chat, and for the most part she's cool, but she did happen to mention a couple of things that set off a couple alarms:

a) She's kinda in to me a little too much it seems...

b) She said she hasn't been in a real relationship before....which flipped the wrong-frame-has-been-set flag in my mind
(Also, I almost don't buy this...she's decently attractive and mostly together, so its hard to imagine any reason for her not to have been in a relationship before.......but again she seemed fairly genuine when she said it)

c) I know I could do better than her
(This has been a common theme for me since the last girl I dated...and while some guys in the community need to work to improve this mindset...I really think I need to dampen this a bit for myself....)

In my experiences pre-community, going out with a girl and 'gaming her' (as I never called it then) was a means to start an exclusive-type relationship.
It wasn't a means to go out and necessarily have fun with a girl a couple times and call it quits....and it wasn't a means to focus on DIRECTLY making MYSELF happy.

Here I am now:

This girl just texted me earlier asking if I want to get dinner and see a movie.
Pre-community I might've jumped on the opportunity in hopes to see myself through to an exclusive-type relationship.
However now, I see so much more potential out there, and I don't want a relationship....but I also don't want to miss a potentially good opportunity.

I didn't respond to her dinner/movie text.
This should be interesting to see how this maps out given that I have responded to pretty much all of her other txts.
(in retrospect, I wonder if this may also have contributed to the 'hey, lets date' frame she has)

We had plans to go on a date/day2/whatev for earlier today (made a couple days ago)....here's part of the txt convo from today when she tried to flake:

(noon)
Me: Hey you. Looks like XXX opens at 6. I'm going to eat with some friends now. Ill see where youre at about 530ish.
Her: Ok :) how much does it cost to get in and about how much should i bring with me? Its been a while since ive gone to anything like this :)
Me: Not sure. In my car now, but check the website.
Her: Sweet :) thanks and I'll be seeing ya tonight!

(at 4:45pm)
Her: Hey I'll give you a call if I can come tonight but i'm not feeling well today...I've been in bed tired all day...
Me: Yea rainy day, I hear ya. Let me know if you change your mind.

(at 5:37pm)
Her: I changed my mind :) I'll be leaving shortly :) I just needed a nap and some tylenol :)
Me: Haha well now Im out in addison hangin out. will prob be back around 7 or 8 tho...ill see what youre doin around then
Her: Ok sounds good :) I'll be home so just give me a call :)

(at 9:01pm)
Her: Did you maybe want to grab dinner or a movie tonight, or something like that? :)


That's where I haven't replied.

Thing is, now I feel bad about not responding...but at the same time I know I'd only be digging myself deeper into a relationship-type situation that I'm accustomed to.
If what she's saying is true, about not having a 'real' relationship before, am I unjustifiably messing with her head?
I've gone back and forth with a couple other girls since joining the community, but she just seems a little more innocent than them...so I have a harder time with the hit-it-and-leave-it concept.

I'm even working on another girl in parallel with this one...so I have no reason to feel like if I lose this one, I'll have nothing left to work with....

All in all, I think I know what I did wrong: I let the fact that I saw her as a fairly innocent girl curb any sexual framing that I might normally do.

As I think these things and try to solve them, I wind up telling myself that its only fair for me to concern myself with my part of the relationship between us.
The fact is that I want to stick with the community for a while to see what's out there....not jump into a relationship the first time it presents itself as a result of all this new stuff I'm getting better at.

I guess I might have to step out of the nice-guy mindset that I thought I could maintain...but I know that's going to be tough.

Any insight/thoughts? Similar situations?

[Guest]

This is YOUR life...

It sounds like you don't want to step on any toes or hurt any girls feelings while you figure out just what you want from your life. I appluad you for this. Most of the guys in the community don't give a shit.

You are going to meet a lot of girls if you stick with this.

While I don't know you very well it sounds like you are just what I used to be. I used to be a boyfriend. I would rarely just mess around with girls. Most of the girls I did mess around with became girlfriends.

Since my last breakup I am no longer this person and I make it known from the beginning. Of all the girls that I have dated I tell them straight up "I have no interest in a relationship" and "I date other girls". Now they know and they can take whatever they want from those statements. I let them know where I stood and they can either walk or continue enjoying my company. Just a side note those two statements unintentially almost always create greater attraction.

As far as removing the nice guy persona. Man if that is truely who you are don't change. Just know what you want and don't sacrifice your own feelings and happiness to make others around you feel good. Yes there will probably be some sad girls.

The game should make you a better version of yourself. It shouldn't change you into some cookie cutter lemming.

[Guest]

i'd heed PCs words and just set your frame up from the start... when she starts talking about being in a relationship that's probably the time to say you're not looking for a serious relationship and just dating. if she's not down she's not down so you don't hurt her feelings... if she is she can't ever say she wasn't warned and you shouldn't feel bad :)

if you feel you can do better, don't get in a relationship with her and settle... because that feeling will get stronger later i'm sure and you'll just dump her ;)

[Guest]

AlphaMo...

The fact is that you're having trouble making the community congruent to your real personality. There's nothing wrong with still caring about a girl's feeling.

We say this shit all the time "leave them better than you found them." I contend that that is virtually impossible.

Hit-it then forget-it is more like the mantra we should be spitting out. There is NO way we could possibly leave a chick better than we found them if we fuck them and run.

I've struggled with the exact same things you are struggling with. I DON'T want a relationship, I DON'T want a commitment, I WANT to see where this stuff takes me...BUT, I DON'T want to hurt someone along the way. And, I've meet amazing chicks along the way that I would definitely have settled down with had it not been for the fact that I was trying to develop into a PUA.

Unfortunately, I've discovered that as I developed and continue to develop into a PUA that I'm leaving a wake of emotional destruction behind me. Let me qualify that first...I don't hazard to believe that chicks are sitting at home crushed because I never came back BUT I do know that there are girls that would come back around at the drop of a hat or text ;) because I forged a strong emotional connection with them...despite the fact that I bailed. Everyone feels slightly bad if someone rejects you. As a man, we shake it off pretty easily but a woman FEELS everything, that's how they process information, they see the world through the eyes of emotion. Fucking them creates emotion, ditching them does as well. They'll recover and probably have the same thing happen to them over and over (i.e. they are gamed then dropped). But, when you do that shit to people there's NO WAY that you actually leave them BETTER!!!

It's hard to be a truly nice guy and PUA. You make your choices, you figure out what you can live with, and you live your life accordingly.

We can talk about how you didn't frame the interaction the way you wish you could have all day, but frame isn't the issue here. Instead, I think you're just trying to be a decent fucking human being...

To be a really good PUA, I think you have to be a bit of a sociopath. You live your life for you and you don't fucking care what happens to everyone else. I know this, because I've been there, I've had times in my development in which I was a sociopath and guess what? Those times were the times in which I was closing like no one's business. That was when I was at my best with respect to quantity.

But, I don't think that's the point of the PUA movement. Why would you want to build yourself up on the backs of random chicks? It's not the most solid foundation. I guess I view the community like this:

There were 3 types of guys in the world before the community:
-Nice guys
-Assholes
-Self-improvement junkies

Then along came the community:
-Nice guys
-Assholes
-PUAs

In my opinion, the self-improvement junkies turned into PUAs. Further, I think PUAs at heart are just nice guys repackaged. We take all of the attributes of assholes add a twist and voila we're PUAs. In my opinion, the NICEST thing you could ever do is go on the journey from AFC to PUA. The reason? Because it's hard as fuck. And, you're doing it all just so you can meet women.

This brings me full circle. At our heart, I think we're all NICE guys. So, there's nothing wrong with doing the right thing by a girl and NOT escalating. Stay true to who you are my friend and you'll find that you'll win in the end. It's nice to be able to sleep soundly at night because you KNOW that you didn't fuck anyone over on purpose.

[Guest]

after the 3rd line it was too much bullshit to continue to read. You live in a college town...just drive down Hickory, hang your dick out the window, and see what you hook.


You said yourself that you know you can do better. You should tell her how its going to be now, rather than wreck her later because you should have told her how you feel sooner. Honesty is the ganxter's policy.

[Guest]

It almost sounds to me like you just want to be friends with her...like not even fuck buddy friend. You might wanna think a little more about what you want from her....

[Guest]

Pretty good insight from everyone.
Seems like the consensus is to confront her on it all now, before going any further.

Of course this makes total obvious sense...guess I just needed to look at it from an outside vantage point.

Thanks all, I owe you each a round sometime.
....actually I'll let you guys get the first round...but the second is totally on me.

-AM