Bull Run Needs Some Help Thinking Something Through

[Guest]

I think that above all women look for emotional stimulation. That what they value-emotions. A man who emotionallys stimulate a woman is in.From my personal experience that best interactions with women that I have are the ones that are emotionally charged. If you can add the emotional stimulation to your interaction its a done deal.

[Guest]

[quote1217855268=grimm1111]
I don't think there's an answer to that man, that stuff just kind of shines through on its own and while i do believe that you can dress better and exercise for looks, work on your humor and having a positive confident attitude and your internal thoughts about women - you know that i think routines and all that DHV, value displaying crap are bullshit. they might work on some stupider girls but in the end you just need to be yourself man and trust your own value. i mean just assume that your value is at least as high as hers, if you're worried about DHV's that means you think you need to prove yourself somehow.
[/quote1217855268]

Grimm nailed this.

it's a paradox. by [i]attempting [/i]to DHV or [i]trying [/i]to DHV, you are in fact lowering your value.

That doesn't mean you don't/can't inherently display higher value, by unintentional demeanor or actions....which is what you are getting at trying to quantify...correct?

[quote1217855782=Bull Run]

So, how do guys think girls can spot these Marlboro Men? How do you think girls can find and see your true value? (Keep in mind that high value guys want to display their value, low value guys want to hide their value).

[/quote1217855782]

I would debate this point though...i don't think [i]true [/i]high value guys necessarily 'want' to display their value. i think it comes through... soon as you make a thought process out of it, it doesn't make it real.

[Guest]

I have dated probably 20 different women in the past few months and here are some things women have pointed out in regards to “demonstrating value”. Some of these have been listed already but they are things I have heard mentioned by women so I feel they are important to reiterate.

Assertiveness- The other night my date had asked for a lemon with her drink and didn’t get it and was disappointed. Immediately I got the attention of the waiter and asked her “to bring us a BIG bowl of lemons” in a very direct and strong tone(assertive). The lemons arrived right away. My date’s eyes light up, she turns her body to mine and gives me a huge hug and says you’re awesome, thank you very much! I scored major points here because I got her taken care of without her having to ask and I did it in a very “take charge” manner.

Appearance- We all know how much women love shoes. Well, they also love to see nice shoes on their men. I think it secretly makes their little panties gooey. Wear some shoes that have some uniqueness about them. When you wear the right pair of shoes,you’ll be amazed at how many compliments you get from females. Also dress well, and don’t be afraid to accessorize(jewelry) just like women do! If you’re woman tans, you should tan too. Works just like the shoes. Don’t forget the cool socks either. And don’t wear no tighty whitey underwear. Most women don’t like plain underwear. Plain=Boring in her eyes.

Emotions- This is important. Bring out all of her emotions and she’ll feel a deeper connection to you. Don’t be afraid to show your own emotions. Had a girl tell me a very sad personal story of hers and it definitely brought a tear to my eye. She thought I was so sweet because of it and showed her I was man enough to express my feelings. It also demonstrated that I was listening & understanding what she had to say. I’ve heard BullRun mention this before, but lean over and kiss that girl at the right moment. This will be a key to unlocking creating emotional chemistry.

Sex- Yeah we all love sex, and women do to. But if you really want to demonstrate that you are a man of value, don’t give in on a first date. You’ll both have more respect for each other going forward.

Take Initiative- Stand up, decide, and proceed! Women like it when you are a man with the action plan. They like to be asked out on dates. They like to be pursued. Do it. Be the leader and show them a good time.

Project Inner Strength- Show your woman that you are a strong individual and aren’t easily deterred by setback. Its kind of a John Wayne persona here. Tell her your stories of when you got bucked off then got back in the saddle. My own example of projecting inner strength is my current physical situation. Most of you know that I’m on crutches right now and I’ve got a broken hip, lacerated liver, and messed up shoulder. I’m not sitting at home in misery. I don’t complain about it. I’m out on the town living it up as best I can right now. Its not easy to walk through a crowded bar much less get your own drink with crutches. It is a little intimidating trying to pick up girls or even go on dates in my condition. But guess what……everyone of these chics I’ve been with while on crutches has said they think its really impressive that I don’t let this get me down and keep forging ahead regardless of the obstacles. In there eyes I have demonstrated value. Women want a “Protector” and they don’t want a guy that’s going to lay down when he gets wounded.

[Guest]

[quote1217859821=Bull Run]

I think there are a lot of Marlboro Men in the Community.

What's a Marlboro Man?

Basically, it's a guy with really low value that has gotten good at projecting value. He's really good at marketing at BAD product...just like Phillip Morris for all those years...thus, he's a Marlboro Man.

So, how do guys think girls can spot these Marlboro Men? How do you think girls can find and see your true value? (Keep in mind that high value guys want to display their value, low value guys want to hide their value).

Thanks!
[/quote1217859821]

The more you are around people and functioning as an observer/listener, the more skilled you will become at detecting a Marlboro Man. It’s even easier if you have an analytical type personality. I’ve noticed that women tend to take the roll of observer/listener when becoming acquainted with a guy. It’s like a test you have to pass before allowed access into her internal circle. The smart girls aren’t going to open themselves up 100% until the guy has passed the test. This test is to see if you are what you say you are. It’s a test to make sure you are not a Marlboro Man. Marlboro Man isn’t going to make it too far down the road with a quality woman. His relationships with people will typically be shallow. He’s a surface kind of guy….not much depth. His “high value” stories can’t be backed up by personal experiences. The more you let him talk the more he’ll show his true colors. In the end actions always speak louder than words. There are definitely some Marlboro men in the pua society. They’ve got all the theory down, they talk a big game, got the perfect lines! But when it comes time to actually creating relationships with quality women they fail. Its like why even play this game if you aren’t for real?

When I get the feeling I’m around a Marlboro Man I like to give them enough rope and let them hang them selves in conversation. I happened to run into one of these the other night while on a date. My date and I are sitting at a table enjoying each other. Some Marlboro Man walks up to our table and asked my girl where her friend Beatrice was. My date says she’s at home. Beatrice and Marlboro Man had been out on a few dates and Beatrice had cut ties with him. It was clearly obvious that my girl and I were into each other and having a good time. MarlboroMan starts in with all his bullshit and the next thing I hear him say to my girl is “I’m glad Beatrice isn’t here, I actually find you more attractive”. Marlboro Man tries to move in closer to my girl so I pull her towards me and make it clear as day that she’s mine. She turns her back to him to show her disapproval. I had to go to the bathroom and while I’m away, he then questions my date on why she’s with some handicapped guy. In his attempt to demonstrate value, he tries to put me down. This is always a good indicator a person doesn’t have any value! He also put my date down in an indirect manner by putting me down and was too stupid to realize this. I’d of loved to have wrapped one of my crutches around this dudes face but I kept cool and let him keep talking. He fell into the trap and hung himself. All it took was about 20minutes.

[Guest]

I think a key indicator is how hard someone tries to impress you, and how much attention they pay to signals of status or value. A true high value person has no need to impress anyone or try to get anyone to like him. Which is why "DHV" stories, if not done properly, can severely lower your apparent value. And negs, demonstrating that you're not approval seeking, raises your apparent value.

The community certainly attracts Marlboro Men, and I think a lot of the techniques aim to teach these Marlboro Men how not to look like Marlboro Men. They're looking for ways to improve their marketing and that includes appearing genuine.

But the community is also useful for high value men to market themselves more successfully. Which you might think wouldn't be necessary but with crappy marketing even a good product will get poor results.

A skilled Marlboro Man can probably get pretty good at appearing high value. But the true value always leaks out to some degree. It might be subtle or it might take time, but even the most skilled Marlboro Man can't fool all the people all the time.

[Guest]

EXAMPLE:

I am not a player. It meaning that I am a marlboro man. I am working and studying to become a player (PUA). I am learning techniques, methods, and such tools to become good with women. I need these just so I can get their attention and stand out from other guys. I may have presented myself as cooler person than I actually think I am. I guess that meaning that I am a marlboro person. HOWEVER, I am also workin on my lifestyle and everything to make my life whole lot better and interesting. I am working towards the life of rockstars and players. So what does this make me? Am I a player or marlboroman?

I think EVERYONE starts as marlboroman. You guys weren't good with women and seek out the community to find others like urself and learn from each other. You studied and read some materials. You needed these tools to present urself interesting and different from other guys. I think everyone has a potential to be a marlboroman and a player. I think every individual makes choice and it is up to you to decide which one you want to be. You work on your stuff while improving ur lifestyle. I think that is the true purpose of community such as this.

[Guest]

[quote1217897825=Sleek]
EXAMPLE:

I am not a player. It meaning that I am a marlboro man. I am working and studying to become a player (PUA). I am learning techniques, methods, and such tools to become good with women. I need these just so I can get their attention and stand out from other guys. I may have presented myself as cooler person than I actually think I am. I guess that meaning that I am a marlboro person. HOWEVER, I am also workin on my lifestyle and everything to make my life whole lot better and interesting. I am working towards the life of rockstars and players. So what does this make me? Am I a player or marlboroman?

I think EVERYONE starts as marlboroman. You guys weren't good with women and seek out the community to find others like urself and learn from each other. You studied and read some materials. You needed these tools to present urself interesting and different from other guys. I think everyone has a potential to be a marlboroman and a player. I think every individual makes choice and it is up to you to decide which one you want to be. You work on your stuff while improving ur lifestyle. I think that is the true purpose of community such as this.
[/quote1217897825]

I respect that you're willing to be honest about where you are and what you feel you need to do to get better. I think it shows confidence and strength which is a trait that women will be drawn to.

I think what Bull Run means by Marlboro Man is someone who tries to package themselves as having more of the "value traits" (see above) than they actually have.

We believe that women can typically see through this packaging better than men can and that your effort is better spent working on "inner game" issues like confidence, body language, good attitude, good frames, etc.

Everyone goes through a different PUA journey to become their personal best. That is, everyone has different strengths and weaknesses that they bring to the table from day one. For you, maybe routines are the right way to go - i don't know you. My biggest weakness was from the beginning that I was very shy and introverted. However I do have more "value" in the sense that we judge it than the majority right out of the gate. So for me, what has given massive results has been anything I can do to get comfortable with letting go, having more fun, and being more outgoing and less in my head. I did go through a MM phase where I learned routines about gay cats, but frankly it never helped me nearly as much as strengthening my "people muscles" has.

I'm still not nearly as good as I want to be. But, I do take a certain amount of pride - which I feel I should - that the results I have are all ME and not one ounce attributed to lying/manipulation/someone else's canned material/etc.

THAT is worth more than pussy - even if it didn't work as well. However rest assured - natural game works.

[Guest]

I see what you're sayin grimm. I don't rely on routines anyways.. I just never happened to f-close this past 4 month so wanted to try something new and thought maybe i would memorize 1 or 2 routines. :P

[Guest]

You've got Nimbus!