Never get married

[Guest]

Alimony is like buying oats for a dead horse.

I think the underlying idea here is to not enter in to contracts where everything is absurdly stacked against you. Like not even close to fair. Who the hell would enter into a marriage contract these days with all the hastle and potential trouble it creates for you??

Like would you sign a business partnership under these terms?

Women are not to blame here btw, and neither is marriage in itself. It is the government's intrusion into o ur personal lifes--the stripping away of our individiual freedoms that are to blame. In the past, if a woman wanted to divorce her man she could but she wouldn't leave the marriage as if she's won the lottery. Our current system provides an economic incentive to women for getting divorced (and penalizes men for getting one)--what kind of bullshit is that!?!?

The idea of putting legal restrictions on relationships that bind you together is bizarre in itself but to be so disadvantagous to one party is absurd. The government--this behemoth off inefficency, poorly-thought out laws, and unintended consequenses is draining the freedom from its citizens--and along with it their productivity.

You are in a situation where the government is penalizing you and removing your incentive to produce though excessive taxes, divorce penatlies (child support//alimony//lawyer fees etc), not to mention the burocratic bullshit you have to deal with as a business owner.

I hope that one day someone will build a society on Objectivist and Libertarian principles. It cetainly won't happen here--the stupid masses are not wise enough to support a canidate like Ron Paul...

Back to the marriage thing. This brings up strong emotions in me, because it is a classic example of our or government is shitting all over our constitution. They are figuratively wiping their ass with it and then smearing it in our faces. Under the equal protection clause men and women should be treated equaly by the government, yet men's rights are trampled...It is clear there is a systematic bias in the courts against men.

Westfall

[Guest]

I was shooting a wedding today. I asked the Mother of Bride (late 50's cougar) to get her husband and I would do a romantic portrait of the two of them. She than said "no that's ok. I am going to divorce him and he doesn't even know it yet." The Father of the Bride seemingly is a really nice guy. He follows his daughter's wishes and his wife wishes and never compliant... just with an easy go lucky attitude. It is stressful for the families at weddings and was always smiling and happy. Too bad nice guys are always the chump.

[Guest]

[quote1214197780=Imager]
Too bad nice guys are always the chump.
[/quote1214197780]

This is not true at all. Despite the wildly exaggerated stories of my assholeishness (well most of them are true), I consider myself to be a kind person. Also many of the other guys who I respect both in PUA and other fields are nice people.

The gentleman you describe is not being nice. He is being a supplicating douche.

Let me explain the difference between being a nice guy and supplicating.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supplication[/url]

The last phrase here is important:

[i]The key meaning is of a request by the lesser person in an acknowledged unequal relationship.[/i]

If you are in an unequal relationship and you are trying to do things to please the other person so they won't leave you--or that they will be with you in the first place, then you are NOT being nice, you are trying to manipulate them, and suppliment inadaquacies in yourself. You are like the car salesman who buys potential buyers a drink.

However, if you feel as though you are on equal footing with a girl (or even superior to her) and you do something kind simply to make her happy as an end unto itself (As opposed to making her happy as a means to get what you really want) then this is kindness. And it is a good thing.

If I ever find a girl I consider worthy of being a life partner with, I will do a great number of things to make her happy....I will be extraordinarly nice to her, buy her flowers, and tell her I think she is beautiful....but I will never bend to her wishes without complaints or let her walk over me. She will have to continuiously work to make me happy or I will find someone else who will. When you are always kind to a woman even when she doesnt deserve it and fearful to call her out or bust on her when she is out of line you are demonstrating very unattractive qualities and will lose attraction. The key here is to not treat the girl as if you are a lesser person in an unequal relationship.

Westfall

[Guest]

[quote1214234040=Westfall]
[quote1214197780=Imager]
Too bad nice guys are always the chump.
[/quote1214197780]

This is not true at all. Despite the wildly exaggerated stories of my assholeishness (well most of them are true), I consider myself to be a kind person. Also many of the other guys who I respect both in PUA and other fields are nice people.

The gentleman you describe is not being nice. He is being a supplicating douche.

Let me explain the difference between being a nice guy and supplicating.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supplication[/url]

The last phrase here is important:

[i]The key meaning is of a request by the lesser person in an acknowledged unequal relationship.[/i]

If you are in an unequal relationship and you are trying to do things to please the other person so they won't leave you--or that they will be with you in the first place, then you are NOT being nice, you are trying to manipulate them, and suppliment inadaquacies in yourself. You are like the car salesman who buys potential buyers a drink.

However, if you feel as though you are on equal footing with a girl (or even superior to her) and you do something kind simply to make her happy as an end unto itself (As opposed to making her happy as a means to get what you really want) then this is kindness. And it is a good thing.

If I ever find a girl I consider worthy of being a life partner with, I will do a great number of things to make her happy....I will be extraordinarly nice to her, buy her flowers, and tell her I think she is beautiful....but I will never bend to her wishes without complaints or let her walk over me. She will have to continuiously work to make me happy or I will find someone else who will. When you are always kind to a woman even when she doesnt deserve it and fearful to call her out or bust on her when she is out of line you are demonstrating very unattractive qualities and will lose attraction. The key here is to not treat the girl as if you are a lesser person in an unequal relationship.

Westfall


[/quote1214234040]

It's been a while, WF, but I agree with you on this. I think it was made clear with your car salesmen example, but note that supplication can happen in ALL interactions...not just in how relationships work.

[Guest]

[quote1214237835=Smirks]
It's been a while, WF, but I agree with you on this. I think it was made clear with your car salesmen example, but note that supplication can happen in ALL interactions...not just in how relationships work.
[/quote1214237835]

Very true. I've been doing a few interviews lately and I've found that a lot of PUA tactics are relevant here as well. If you supplicate you subcommunicate that you are on unequal footing and in an inferior possition trying to get some sort of value from the other party.

Qualification also plays in here. It's quite hard not to qualify a bit durring an inteview, but I can make the interviewes qualify just as much to me by asking clever questions.

I just got back from an interview in Atlanta for a job I would consider myself inadaquately qualified for, it pays about 25% more than my last job. I used my PUA knowledge all throught the interview--I displayed confidence, disqualified myself at times, leaned back and got a couple of the interviewers to qualify to me quite a bit. I also turned in reciepts for my meals for re-embursment, which I was told they normally only pay for flight/hotel/car, but I got them to pay for my meals (my delicious $55/dinner meals at Fogo De Chao)

I also used a tactic that a lot of PUAs use, but that I rarely have. Eliciting values then throwing what they said right back at them with different wording. Such as if the interview tells me they want/need X quality, I make up some false story about how I used X quality, but won't use the same wording so they dont feel like I am just repeating what they said.

Westfall