Comments about --redacted-- on El Topos blog(Important)

[Guest]

[quote="Mojo"] All a guru needs to speak to the members is to show some integrity. Some gurus have lied, bribe, use manipulative psychological tactics, all to sell a high dollar seat. I will not compromise my principles by allowing them to use less than ethical tactics or try to bribe me with a free seat to an over-priced workshop. [/quote]

I don't think it's unethical for them to try to bribe you with a free seat at a workshop. They're willing to pay to gain access to multiple potential customers. This isn't much different than a referal fee or a "bus driver eats free" sign outside of a McDonalds.

The workshops they offer are most certainly over-priced.
I know guys who have taken MM workshops and I am unimpressed with their skill level. Additionally, I haven't noticed a change in one's abilities when they take a workshop. This isn't because the instructor isn't good, but rather because these skills are not something that can be learned in a weekend.

I took one workshop for $300--it was very reasonablly priced, and the instructor was great, but it only helped improve my skills a bit and helped me get a better understanding of the pychological concepts at work. I've worked pretty hard for a year to get to where I'm at, and most of my abilities have come from hanging out with other skilled PUAs in the community who were generous to take the time to share their insights with me for free...that and trying a bunch of crazy shit.

It's important for new members to realize you can get quite good from just going to the DPUA meet ups, and learning from one another--after all that's what the community is all about.

It would seem to me that a PU company would increase profitablity by droping margins a bit--by signifigantly lowering the price points of bootcamps--or perhaps offering a tiered pricing structure, more aspiring PUAs would want to sign up, perhaps even multiple times. Reviews would be better, as customers would feel they got their money's worth.

In any case, members need to understand that a $3000 bootcamp isn't going to give you amazing powers. Learn from the guys in the community, save your money for a reasonablly priced workshop, and also go out and practice.

Westfall

[Guest]

I had purposely avoided commenting one this subject both silly and overly dramatic... but....


[quote="Westfall"]
It would seem to me that a PU company would increase profitablity by droping margins a bit--by signifigantly lowering the price points of bootcamps--or perhaps offering a tiered pricing structure, more aspiring PUAs would want to sign up, perhaps even multiple times. Reviews would be better, as customers would feel they got their money's worth.

In any case, members need to understand that a $3000 bootcamp isn't going to give you amazing powers. Learn from the guys in the community, save your money for a reasonablly priced workshop, and also go out and practice.
[/quote]

I'll agree with this. There are very few Gurus who I would actually pay $3000 to take thier bootcamp/workshop. But even if they offered one (And my email account is full of such offers) I still wouldn't go because I'm a starving college student trying to figure out how I'm gonna pay for my books next semester... I just don't have it. I do have the $10 needed to get into a club though where I can practice these skills with others.

More importantly, when the day comes that I do decide to part with some of my money I think I'd be more likely to purchase products/bootcamps/workshops from some one who has proven that they have good information through a free (or cheap) event and then offers something resonably priced.

I also seem to recall that in The Game, Style divides PUAs into two groups. The first were the ones who bought all the books, videos, tapes, DVDS, e-books and seminars and what not that they could find creating a fucking libray. The second were guys who learned a routine or two and then practiced it in the field until they had exhausted it. The second group did much better than the first.

I'm interested in the bootcamps/workshop stuff but to a much lesser degree than the meet-ups and night sarging events.

Just my two cents.

Wesley.

[Guest]

I just wanted to say.....

Lawyers charge an arm and a leg for their services, most of which half the time arent worth a damn.

Real estate Professionals charge at least 3% but most of the time its 6%
meaning the average priced house in north texas being around $180K. I'll let you do the math.

Plumbers and Electricians charge anywhere from $70 to $110 an hour plus parts and such.

Investment brokers charge a percentage or a fee that could be pretty substantial depending on the amount youre investing.

These Gurus arent any different than every other business professional out there.

Sure you could learn how to play the game on your own, all it takes it time and a desire.... just as you could invest on your own, represent yourself in the court of law, or facilitate your own real estate transaction. It doesnt mean you have a clue as to what youre doing still.

The difference between a professional and yourself is they have dedicated their lives to their product. Since I was in real estate for 2 years, I know most of the ins and outs and types of things to look for in any given transaction that would A) either save my client money or b) let them spend more.

That being said.... do I think $3000 is a bit absorbant... eh... its borderline. Do I think mystery's $10K price tage is over the top.... most certainly... However I also dont think the services these guys offer arent all too much over priced. I think $2500 is fair. I would like that price to include at least a month or 2 or 6 of post game help as well though, like maybe an hour long phone session every other week or something.

Maybe its just my way of thinking but in America I'm sure most would call it capitalism as its finest.

If you don't want to pay then don't. If you want to use the services but cant afford it, then save or try and negotiate.

What utterly astounds me is that this whole pick up thing is derived around making people more social astute and better sales people in general. Since you are in a since selling yourself to the ladies. What I dont think very many people pick up on is how this stuff effects the rest of your life. Since I have started this my business relationships have NOT been the same. I have made business contacts that I would have never made before this because it required me to go out of my way to talk to someone. I know for a fact of other people in the community that have had successful business deals because of the basic foundation they learned through pick up.

Youre not going to become a god at pick up after a bootcamp... you will however have a 2 or 3 level of understanding above that in which you had previously.... no matter what level you were already at.

I agree with dubya.... there are very few professionals out there that I would pay $3000 for a bootcamp with. I would like to take one despite being broke, but with that said it's like every other solicitation for professional services... shop around.

If any professionals out there see this and would like an indentured servant or could negotiate their price for me that would be great.

Peace

[Guest]

The fact is there are other PU 'gurus' that offer services--sometimes better services, for a much cheaper price.

Charlie Munger once gave a speech in which he discussed the phenomon whereby people assume a higher priced product is superior in quality to a lower priced one, even when there is no other evidence to support that fact. However, This is not always the case.

There were $500 (or less) bootcamps avalible...from great gurus like Juggler, Adam London, Brad P, etc

I'm sure that the local Dallas 'gurus' are good and all, but are they really worth 6x what those other workshops cost? Maybe so. When guys I know who aren't yet good start taking those bootcamps and imerge as some glorious PUA f-closing HBs left and right, then I'll consider signing up.

Westfall

[Guest]

[quote="Westfall"]The fact is there are other PU 'gurus' that offer services--sometimes better services, for a much cheaper price.

Charlie Munger once gave a speech in which he discussed the phenomon whereby people assume a higher priced product is superior in quality to a lower priced one, even when there is no other evidence to support that fact. However, This is not always the case.

There were $500 (or less) bootcamps avalible...from great gurus like Juggler, Adam London, Brad P, etc

I'm sure that the local Dallas 'gurus' are good and all, but are they really worth 6x what those other workshops cost? Maybe so. When guys I know who aren't yet good start taking those bootcamps and imerge as some glorious PUA f-closing HBs left and right, then I'll consider signing up.

Westfall[/quote]

Respect. :lol: