Good Analysis of why nightgame sucks

[Tribulus1000]

Bars and clubs were once venues in which women came to actively seek and meet men. It was once socially acceptable and expected for men to approach women in this setting.

Lately, I've noticed the dynamic in bars and nightclubs shifting. Rather than the singles/meat markets of yore, bars and clubs are now becoming venues for groups of friends to celebrate some sort of group event - birthday parties, stagettes, "girls night out" etc. Blame cell phones, texting, Facebook, and social networking sites that make groups of friends connected to each other, yet form cliques and isolate themselves from the mainstream.

Additionally, the growing popularity of online dating means women no longer need to actively seek men - women can field multiple date requests from the comfort of their own homes. This is why bars and clubs are increasingly becoming sausagefests - single women aren't going out as much today. They don't need to. They're staying home.

And therein lies the paradox of the broken bar/club scene today. Guys flood clubs in the vain hopes of attracting pvssy. Girls go to clubs to attention-***** and put up pictures on Facebook the next morning, and c*ckblock each other from hooking up. So the guys go home alone on yet another night. Sexually frustrated, they start fights with other guys.

The late 90s/early 2000s was a golden era in which when a lot of PUA material flowered. But the dynamics in bars and clubs back then were a lot different. Think of clubbing 10 years ago, circa 2000. No cell phones. No texting. No digital cameras. No Facebook. No online dating sites.

I imagine women back then were A LOT more receptive to cold approaches at bars and clubs.

The GAME has CHANGED, and game material hasn't evolved to catch up with the profound changes in communications technologies as it has affected social dynamics in recent years.

Would Mystery in his early days come up with the Mystery Method if he had to contend with ADD attention-*****s too preoccupied with texting their friends and taking pictures of themselves with digital cameras to put up on Facebook and calling all guys "creepers" instead of, like, having a real conversation? He likely would not have had the patience, grown frustrated, given up, and quit. There would be no PUA.

[Bull Run]

By far, without a doubt the best way to meet women today is online. Over the last 7-8 years, I’ve dabbled on and off with using the Internet as a way of sourcing women. Over that time, I’ve kept a record of the women that I’ve successfully closed on the Internet and I have to say that I’m getting women that are much, much more attractive today off the net than I did when I was in my mid-20’s. Not only are they more attractive, they’re also usually 4-5 years younger than me…in some cases 10 years. I was discussing this with a co-worker yesterday and she told me that she is on the net. I asked her why and this is roughly what she said: “I spend most of my life at work or with my circle of friends. I don’t go to bars a whole lot and when I do it’s to hang out with my friends. I'm not going to go to a bar by myself to get picked up. Plus anyways, most guys at bars are interested in only one thing…to get laid that night. I don’t want to date a co-worker. Guys don’t randomly approach women at the grocery store, gym, or other places any longer because it’s not socially acceptable like it was in the past. Guys at church are boring. My girlfriend’s boyfriends friends are all losers. If I didn’t use the net I’d never have any dates.” This girl is about 23, blonde, cute, smart, and quite fit. I’d give her a solid 8.

Online is by far the best place to meet women. It’s low investment, it’s easy to screen, it’s totally acceptable, there are a lot of attractive women online, there are a lot of willing women, and a lot of eager women. Feminism and the status whoring culture, both of which have been perpetuated by social technology, has made approaching women in person an incredibly difficult task. Well, let me rephrase that. It’s not hard to do, it’s hard to be successful at it. It's almost frowned upon for a man to walk up to a strange woman and ask her out. That's fucking creepy right? But, sending an email to a random stranger isn't? Right.

I’ve gotten older, my confidence higher and better, and my game has gotten tighter but I can say without hesitation that pulling a woman from a bar pre 2009 was a much, much easier task than doing so right now. The opposite is true with online game. It's easier now than it ever has been before AND I suspect it will only get easier.

[Gigantor]

Could not DISAGREE with this post anymore.

Bars and clubs have ALWAYS been sausage-fests. The only thing that ever changes regarding game is the perception of it. Shit, there's a bar across the street that I go to relax, have a beer and listen to the band who's playing that night. I've been in there before where there's been 30 guys and 3 women and I'll STILL get a girl's number/get a Day 2 with.

People gather in bars and clubs to celebrate things like birthdays....reeeaallly. So they weren't doing that in 98'? I was 22 and I CLEARLY remember people celebrating things like that back then too. I just didn't have the social skills or the confidence to approach the group. That's why I never got laid.

Interestingly enough regarding dating websites is the small percentage of people actually subscribing to those sites versus the massive amount of profiles that exist.

So what if you go online and meet someone? Do you actually possess the social skills and the understanding of attraction to get the girl once you get her in person??? Those aren't skills you can improve and learn in the virtual world. Those are only skills you can build in the REAL WORLD.

You might be able to get a few dates per week going online. You can meet 4 women in the span of 20 minutes in a bar. So if I went to a gym and did 4 bench presses all week, how long would it take me to get ripped? Never. It's about getting out and being social.

So what there's a big group of people, it's as easy as walking up to them and saying, "You guys seem cool, what are ya'll celebrating?" They answer and you ask how they all know one another. Then bring VALUE to the group by talking about interesting things. If you know how to DHV this won't be a problem. That simple.

And I got this experience in the Hollywood bars in LA, which is about a million times harder to open than any place in Texas.

"Online game" is a skill set to be sure, but it's like an artist that's trying to paint a rainbow with one color.

Just because something is "easier" doesn't mean it's better for you. The only way you ever learn ANYTHING is by getting outside of your comfort zone. Which means turning off your computer and talking to a real live human being.

[ninjamatt]

I would disagree about the clubbing and I've done it every weekend almost for 11 years. Even if the theory is true that women go clubbing as girls night out, or a birthday party, most women who are single, and even many who aren't, are still open for conversation if you do it right. Most attractive women have drunks talking either silly, or boring, or nasty to them the majority of the time. If you can talk to them the same way you would any ordinary person, typically they are receptive. One thing that helps me is walking away from the conversation within 10 seconds to 2 minutes, and coming back later. But remember something about clubbing. It's a statistical game. My appearance might be an 11 on a scale of 1 to 10, and a lot of times i even walk out of a club with nothing not even a number. Being an 11 doesn't necessarily help me as much as you would think b/c a lot of women are timid of me b/c i'm so smooth. Sometimes my lesser looking friends will go in and have all the luck while I have none.

As far as online dating goes , from my standpoint I would disagree for a few reasons. I have some close friends who do that a lot. My guess is each might average 1 date every 2 months from it. Typically, the dates are not going well b/c there is too little compatibility. Another thing is that there is a ton of competition online for the decent looking women. I know that I don't want my photos on a dating website. I would be embarrassed as hell if a co-worker, or someone I seen in public recognized me from a website. When I posted as a female seeking male on craigslist, most of those guys seemed lonely, desperate, shy, the typical 40 year old virgin , etc. Almost all of them responded after seeing a pic with "you are so beautiful". The online male looking outnumbers the female by so much, that you pretty much concede the fact if you are gonna get hooked up that way, you will have to "settle". I know you say you don't have to , and it won't happen to you, but M seeking F online almost always has to settle for baggage, or a few extra pounds, or something that lives 2 hours away, or you having to convince yourself over time she's pretty enough, or any host of other issues. If you get real good at the club, you can pretty much start picking out what you want relative to your social status. In my case, i'm addicted too it.

[Gigantor]

Agreed, you can learn how to talk to women online but that skill set doesn't transfer to the real world. However, if you can talk to women in the real world that skill is universal and easily translates online.

Online game shouldn't be used to replace approaching women socially. Period.

[Rhody]

I think you're all right. Night game has changed because of technology. Cell phones, smart phones, digital cameras, camera phones, social networking, etc. have provided a whole new set of obstacles to getting a woman's attention. In 1998, if you wanted to chat up a woman, she had two choices: listen or tell you to fuck off. Now she can just start playing Angry Birds and ignore you. I wouldn't say night game sucks, but it is different.

Online dating is becoming more and more acceptable and less embarrassing. In fact, a woman will be more embarrassed saying she met a guy in a bar than saying she met him online. For them, it's the 21st centry woman's way of screening men with very little investment. She doesn't have to listen to a guy blabber on and on when there's a delete button. The problem is they screen men based on height, weight, income, education, etc. rather than choosing a mate because of the immeasurable qualities she's really attracted to.

The most basic thing about sarging is going to places where there are high concentrations of women. Those places are still bars and clubs with a new option of online dating sites.

[Bull Run]

If you know how to run online game, then you'll average 2-3 dates a week no problem. In fact, it's quite common for me to send out a handful of emails in a day, start chatting with these girls (using the same basic formula, threads, and responses), pull their number and meet them up for drinks. If you do this right, you can easily build a small harem of online prospects, say 4-5, in a few days which will be more than enough tail to keep you occupied over the next week or two.

Rhody is right that women screen more heavily on the Internet, but I've also noticed that the screening process is just a tough in person. The only negative experience I ever have with online dating is when I meet them in person and they don't have that 'thing' about them that attracts me as much to them as I should. Generally, that is few and far between as I'm usually never disappointed with what ends up showing up at the initial date. The reason is because you have to have very, very specific screening processes. You have to have the right profile, the right pictures, the right email volleys, and you have to understand what to look for from them. And, you have to understand which site you're on because different things work on different sites. The reality is that men that say online game doesn't work or is a waste of time simply don't know how to game online. If you know what you're doing, you don't need to go anywhere else.

Having said that, I think in person (i.e. traditional game) and online game both have their place in your arsenal to pick up women. Having one without the other hurts them both. More than that, you meet completely different types of women at bars/clubs than you do online. Another fact to consider as well, the concept of flakes. I've never had a girl flake on me that I pulled from online. Not once. They showed up when they were told to show up and at the right venue. But, a lot of women you meet in a bar/club will flake on you for one simple reason: they very likely could have been very drunk. And are embarassed or don't remember which guy you were.


Finally, I view the appealing option of online game for women for the same reasons it's appealing to me. I've got a full life. I have a lot of shit going on. I don't have a lot of time to fart around in bars getting shit faced looking for some chick to fuck. I've done that, I've lived that life. It was fun, but it also cost me a lot. It ate into my life in other areas and set me back a bit. High quality women think the exact same way. Women that have a lot of shit going on in their lives don't want to go to a bar, get drunk, and hit on by a bunch of drunk, loser douches. The only time it's appealing to a woman to meet a man in a bar/club is when she's in college or has something very wrong with her (she's a slut, she's a single mom, she's a status whore, she's a loser with nothing else to do but get fucked up all the time, etc.). They don't call them bar rats for no reason...

As for the number of active profiles. Again, there's tricks of the trade that tell you if a profile is legit or not. Again, you just have to know what to look for...in truth, there's not enough time in the day to get around to all the womnen online...there's so many opportunities if you know what you're doing. The fact that most guys online don't have a clue just makes it that much easier for guys that do.

It's like everything else in the community. Guys that knock online game are doing so because 1) they haven't tried it or 2) they weren't as successful as they wanted to be. In both cases, it is that person's fault it didn't turn out the way they wished. Ignore online game. Discount it all you want. But, if you're not doing it and not playing around with how to be successful then you're fast becoming a dinosaur.

Ninjamatt: your experiment with CL was flawed for one reason. Wrong site. You are right that men outnumber women dramatically online. However, that's actually a good thing because if you're one of the few guys that has the kind of profile, email volleys, and pictures that you need to have to stand out from the crowd in the right way then your status is boosted through the roof. Scarcity is the name of the game. It's just like that loser at a bar that just got blown out by a set, if you approach right after him and have tight game then you're going to look like a fucking God. I did that all the time, I used to call it the Inadverent Wing strategy. Same dynamic applies online.

But, more than that. You said so yourself that you would be embarassed if someone saw you on a dating site. That tells me that your pre-conceived notions regarding online game are bleeding into your opinion. You simply don't know because you haven't tried, and you simply won't really, truly succeed until you have an open mind about the prospect of using the web.

As for settling, you're right. Most men will settle when they start pulling womeone off the net. But, then again, most all men settle. And, what's more, we aren't most men. That's one thing that fundamentally sets us apart from 'normal' guys. We're confident enough in our abilities to know that there will be another girl and that we don't have to settle. It's fundamentally what makes us so much more attractive and successful with women than a 'normal' man.

I'm 32. I routinely pull women in their early to mid 20's that are fit, attractive, and interesting. Occassionally, I'll date one my age that have aged well and don't have baggage. There are chubby ones. There are ones with baggage. There are ones that live an hour away. There are ones that have a kid(s). But, you treat them the same way you would the same type of girl in a bar...pump and dump OR ignore completely.

[ninjamatt]

I was on eharmony around 2005. Amazingly, within like 2 weeks, I had been matched with a girl I work with. My pic showed up on her inbox, and hers on mine. The interesting thing here is, shes 5'2 and 320 pounds.

I can get to more thoughts on the whole online dating later. I'm at a point in life I don't wanna sift through it and join a rat race where guys outnumber girls 5 to 1, and most of them are on there b/c they have no friends and they can't approach women in public. Approaching random women in public is just way too fun.

[Bull Run]

Go to any club/bar and you'll see that men outnumber women no matter what. If you take the number of women that are feasible, quality targets then the ratio explodes to something crazy like 15 to 1. Then, filter out the guys that are fucking clueless and have zero chance and the odds start to even out a bit but they're still dramatically in favor of women. There simply isn't enough hot pussy to go around. If there was, the community wouldn't exist, social status and value as a man wouldn't matter, and being the alpha male wouldn't be so attractive to beautiful women.

Now, go online and you'll see that the ratio of men to women is even higher than in a club/bar that is definitely true. Again, filter out the number of feasible female targets and the number explodes to something much, much higher than in real life. But, if you take out the number of guys that don't have a fucking clue what they're doing then you'll see that the number of men that are socially saavy, interesting, have a clue and project an alpha appearance is actually outnumbered by the quality women. You're right, losers typically flock to the Internet because they know no other way. They fucking built the Internet so they're comfortable there. Which means that you have virtually zero competition. It's like walking into a bar/club and every other man in the venue is fat, bald, old, poor, with bad hygiene, zero personality, and ill-fitting clothes. Your only job is to have super tight game to legitimize why you're even there in the first place. Once you learn how to project the idea that you don't need to be here but you thought you'd stop by to check it out, then those women will flock to you. The hardest part about being successful using online sources is toning down your game when you meet in person. Once they're there, you just need to be what you promised...then, you slowly layer on more and more game.

Again, eHarmony sucks balls. That's got to be the worst of the dating sites. The only two that are worth a damn are Match (by far the best site, by far) and OkCupid. Match you’ll find more traditional, attractive women that are looking for a somewhat serious relationship. Which is fine. You also find plenty that want to just fucking party. OkCupid is where you’ll find the girls that are a little more alternative, a little more flaky, a little more aloof but are interested in having fun, being casual, getting drunk, or fucked up, and fucking. eHarmony is for women looking to get married RIGHT NOW! Plenty of fish is just gross. Zoosk is a straight up hook-up site, although I’ve never used it so I don’t know for sure.

Also, 2005 was a lifetime ago. I’ve dabbled on the net for years. I’ve always used it as just another way to meet women. Only recently, say the last 2-3 years or so, has the whole online thing even become feasible. It’s still not completely socially accepted, mostly by the bar rats that float around bars getting drunk and wasting their lives in a drunken stupor, but you’d be surprised how accepted it is now. It’s like any other social networking technology, you have the early adopters that are fucking awkward and nerdy as shit, then you have the second wave that want to test it out and figure out how to make it work, then you have the last stage adopters that show up the party because they have a friend that does it and they see how cool it can be. Online dating is no different and, right now, we’re in between the second wave and the late stage adopters.

Approaching women in person is fun, no doubt. But, what I’m talking about is efficiency. If I can supplement my in real life game and daily approaches with effective online game then I’m all for doing so. In fact, I would say that online is even more efficient and effective than day/night approaches. Think about it. I can have a conversation with a random woman for 20 – 30 minutes and generate a solid lead, or I can spend 20 – 30 minutes crafting a generic arsenal of email volleys and send them out to multiple women and generate multiple, solid leads. The efficiencies and success rates are just so much more in your favor via the net.

But, like I said, when it comes down to it, online game is just like any other aspect of game, if you’re not seeing results, you’re not doing it correctly.

[Rhody]

When I think about it, the world has gone through personal ads, video dating, AOL chat rooms, World of Warcraft, myspace, chat roulette, etc. The only thing that really makes night game different these days is the proliferation of the smart phone. You see people going out and spending the whole night with their heads down.

I think we can all agree that getting laid is awesome. The process leading up to getting laid is very fun. It doesn't matter if you begin the interaction in a bar, dance club, or online. I use online dating. I have fun going on a first date with a different woman every week. If I were younger, knowing what I know now, I'm sure I would be doing the same thing, except meeting the women in bars.

On the individual dating sites, eHarmony is terrible. First, there is a presuppostion you want to find "the one." Also, it is not very popular. They try to give you the best matches, but it doesn't take long before all that's left is short, fat women who live 2 hours away.

Match is by far the most popular site. Women take it seriously, so you see nice pictures, full profiles, and two-way conversations. They're not so serious that they're on eHarmony. They're not necessarily looking for "the one," so you can date multiple women and let them go when you're bored.

POF and OKCupid are free, so nobody takes them seriously. If you want to fuck a 5, then POF is the place to go (I've been there). Those two sites seemed to me like short-attention-span-theater. It's free and pseudo-anonymous. A good percentage of women treat it like a social media site with little interest in actually meeting in person. OKCupid seemed like a site where people go to say, "look how unique, intelligent, creative, and individualistic I am." It makes me think of the people in the Samsung commercial waiting in line for an iPhone. "I'm too creative to use Match." "Dude, you're a barista."

I'm aware of Zoosk, but I never thought to use it.