Boot camps are a waste of money for some

[TexTalk]

For some people boot camps are worth it, but for the majority it's a waste of money. Let me explain why.

There are two groups of people that get into this community (and a third, which is really a person from the second group but is lying about getting laid to make themselves look cool).

First group is the total loser. This is the guy who has no game, no girls in his life, and only knows how to make money or waste all hours of the day being an unproductive member of society. For the most part he has no style, could or could not be attractive (in my years in the community I haven't met a good looking guy in this group yet), can only follow conversations and never leads conversations, has few friends if any, and couldn't get laid by any girl that has options (and even if she didn't she'd still think twice).

Second group is the social guy who doesn't get laid. This guy is good at interacting with other guys, girls he's not attracted to, and girls he's introduced to. Normally people think he's cool and gravitate towards him in parties (not him joining group circles because no one will talk to him otherwise). This guy could or could not be attractive. Generally he's not, but he's funny so people like him and he could get laid if he quits being his own cock block.

People from the second group will benefit from boot camps and having dating coaches. All this person really needs is someone to hold their hand to be the same person they already are, but with tweaks with how they live their life and how they interact with people.

People from the first group though are just wasting their money at boot camps. I estimate that 7 out of every 10 guys I have meet at the Dallas lair, boot camps, and guys I've met up with from this and other PUA forums are in this category. I've caught up with or tried to keep up with some of the people I've met over the years, and thus far all have stayed the same even after spending thousands of dollars at boot camps. Normally they give me an excuse of work keeping them busy, family keeping them busy, life keeping them busy, busy, busy and more busy. Shit everyone is busy, so quit making EXCUSES.

My theory is that they try to be a PUA and emulating what they learned, but they fail. Since they fail so often they become discouraged thus eventually quitting and then trying different things (and failing at those too). Now contrast that to guys in the second group. I myself was in that group, and a couple of guys I know (one of which is my friend) who are in this group actually see success. Not saying we all became PUAs, but I've seen everyone of them hook up with a girl from cold approaches.

It is my belief that guys in the first group try to progress too quickly. Instead of trying to hit on girls I think they should be concentrating on becoming a guy from group number 2, then eventually a PUA. Unfortunately not alot of guys from group 1 gets help to become a guy from group 2. Boot camps to me try to force them into PUA training before they are even ready thus discouraging them more then helping them. It takes someone with alot of mental fortitude to face rejection after rejection, so I can't really blame someone for quitting because they are getting bad advice.

I don't know of anyone that specifically teaches this, but I think it is worth it for someone in group 1 to be mentored into becoming someone from group 2. Someone should teach them how to dress right, workout right, how to network with other people, and how to socially interact like a normal human being. And I'm not talking about in just 1 week and then immediately start hitting on girls. This needs to last about 1-3 months because there are no shortcuts. You can try learning this on your own, but I really do think it's beneficial to have someone kick you in the ass when you feel like quitting.

[Scoundrel]

I think a bootcamp, with a skilled instructor can help anyone improve their social skills. But, it won't turn anyone into a pua overnight. Some guys do need more help than others.

[the_devil]

I've never done a bootcamp but would def. consider myself in group #2 but would expand group #1 to include people with extreme limiting beliefs. I haven't so much dealt with guys that were completely inept at social interaction but more so with guys that mirror the subject of the Offspring song Low Self esteem. Their beliefs are so limiting that they are completely incapable of handling any kind of interaction outside their comfort zone. Hell now as I think about it I had to do some personal development work on myself before any of the pickup stuff had more than fleeting results for me.

At first I was against doing a bootcamp at all but now I'd love to do several. I see it like this, I spent and still do spend a ton of money on booze, cloths, ect. plus the time and pain of having to re-invent the wheel, when someone with a good eye could have ironed that out to begin with and I'd be further along because I wouldn't have wasted so many resources along the way.

[Lethal]

I believe I fall in group 2, and a boot camp would help me. I've always got my advice from people who didn't know crap about women. In turn, I still have a bit of a hard time around them.

I had a roommate a couple of years ago who wouldve fallen into group 1. Thing is, he had plenty going for him. Young 30's, stayed in shape running marathons, made great money, had 2 nice cars, traveled the world for his job... but he couldn't land a girl to save his life. When he was around girls, it was painfully awkward. He was such a pushover. I set him up with a girl, and he blew it. He met a cute girl from match.com, and we all liked her. He stopped going out with her (they went on several dates) because he thought she wasn't interested. So what did he do? He had an assignment in the Philppines, and I joked that he should just get with a prositute and marry her... And that's exactly what he did. After he confessed that, he told me he realized he didn't have a chance in hell here in America. He was right.

[Tribulus1000]

While it may be true that 90% of consumers who bought this product could not replicate the results, the focus of this post is on guys.
Guys guys guys. The focus is all wrong. It sounds like a Bullrun diatribe on "What Kind of PUA are you?" with the correct answer being "who gives a shit."
The answer is not bootcamps. The answer is getting out there and approaching, getting numbers, dating and laying girls.

Put the focus where it belongs. Eyes on the prize.


Carry on.

Tribulus

[Scoundrel]

This topic is about the worthiness of bootcamps. I think my bootcamp was overpriced, but I also feel it helped me. It took a while for it all to fall into place too.

I agree the whole point is to talk to women, get dates and have sex, but focusing on that alone is IMHO a mistake. You have to leave the agenda behind and simply start having fun. When you lead a fun, interesting life women will want to be with you. At least that's what works for me.

[bigdprince]

I think Scoundrel makes a great point.

I was fun party guy before my boot camp... and I still am. I like nothing more than having a good time.

Sometimes... I'm up and down. But, when I'm in a good place everything is sooooo very good. What boot camp showed me and what I see in a lot of the successful PUAs is that they have a system, hard goals, and a drive to improve. There's something said for being in control and being able to stay in the right frame of mind.

Now that I've had the boot camp I choose to take a natural/holistic approach to pickup where I'm not a PUA-bot. It's unfortunate, but some of the guys I've met that seem good fall right into that PUA-bot category. I'm going to watch those guys for drive and focus, but... I don't want to be that one sided.