Blow outs, venue changes & reverse pre-selection

[Alphagame]

Last summer, I walked into a local dive bar and opened an all female set. My target turned out to be 19...I'm 38. I got blown out by her body language, but I think the real reason was because she was really, really young and her mom was there. I think she was a little embarrassed because of her mom's presence. I was practicing "mystery" method, that is, coming in with conversation and pretending not to be hitting on her.

So anyway, I got the shoulder turn with this girl and I was blown out. No big deal, right? Happens all the time.

Later that night, I'm engaged in conversation with another lady in the bar and she is giving me advice on how to go about picking up women. As she starts in with her unsolicited advice, she is telling me that every woman in the bar noticed me the moment I walked in and they all thought I was hot.

So where am I going with this???

A buddy of mine, he's in a band, and his band has opened for some pretty big names from the 80's...Ratt, Quiet Riot, etc...Anyway, when he opens for a big name band women often throw themselves at him.

So he was telling me this story about how he once had this girl who more or less agreed to totally fuck his brains out after the concert. The only problem was, this chick was like a 7, which isn't bad at all, but there were some 9's and 10's at the backstage party. So, after the concert, at the backstage party or whatever they call it, my friend decided to use this 7 as a last resort and see if he could upgrade to a real hottie. He proceeded to get blown of set after set (even though he doesn't call it that and he knows nothing about PUA). Anyway, after being rejected by all the 9's and 10's, he returns to the 7. He had NO CLUE she was watching his every move.

She goes on to give him a speech and more or less told him she would have totally fucked his brains out if she hadn't witnessed all the other girls in the place reject him. He got nothing that night.

Ok, so we all know he totally fucked up what could have been a perfectly good pivot, but my point is, this:

When you're a good looking guy, women notice you. They watch you to see if you've got the alpha characteristics to go along with your good looks.

Last night, I was in a bar on lower Greenville. I opened a set, sensed I was on pace to get blown out, heard a husband mentioned by the target, and exited the set before this happened. To a casual onlooker, I doubt they saw it as a blow out because I don't think they ever gave me negative body language. Then, a few minutes later, I think I've got the proximity thing, so I open up a 6.5 standing next to me at the bar. I'm trying to initiate conversation, the music is so loud, even yelling from two feet away, she can't hear me. So I go into a conversation story and she's totally tuned out. Minutes later, the back turn...and I'm blown out.

The back turn from a chick...it's telegraphing to every other chick in the place that you aren't alpha...it's a blow out BUT everyone else is seeing it.

So, anyway, I guess what I'm saying is, we all want and need to overcome our approach anxiety because we know what'll happen if we stand around...they're not gonna approach us...but at the same time, I think we need to recognize that it isn't without risk. If you approach and get blown out, you lose huge social value to any other chick who sees it. If you can figure out the blow out is on the way and give her negative body language before she gives you negative body language, you might be ok, but if she turns her back to you before you get out...especially if your a hot guy and other women are watching...I guess my new MO is gonna be to assume the entire venue is ruined and get the fuck out of there and drive to a new place.

I ended up staying in a venue last night and just got blown out of set after set after set. I know from experience, my game isn't that bad, but the game is COMPLETELY different if you have preselection vs approaching a set that just noticed you getting blown out a few minutes ago.

The nice thing is, there's PLENTY of bars in the metroplex, so changing venue isn't a problem, but I don't remember anyone ever posting on this topic and I'm starting to think it's a real issue that needs to be addressed. Blow outs are BAD BAD BAD because other women in the venue notice.

I think we, as a community, need to spend a little more time and energy on how to predict the blow out, what the predecators to the back turn usually are, so we can see it coming, cut bait and get out. The other people in the venue can't hear what's being said, all they have to go on is body language. If we can get out before the negative body language is displayed, the venue is salvageable.

[Westfall]

I think how you deal with the rejection is more important.

I recall one particular incident where I was chatting with a girl--Morgana (whose bf was right there).... This very hot blonde chick was a BITCH to me, but I didn't care, and it was obvious that I didn't give a fuck what she thought. The girl and I developed a conspiricy against the hot chick, where we were fucking with her.

We flirted back and forth the rest of the night even though her boyfriend was there....I #-closed her.

And also when my fiancee broke up with me I went from AFC to WBAFC and talked to a girl about my rejection... in a way that knowing what I know now would seem very DLV...

But the girl is still attracted to me, more so now because I know what the hell Im doing, but even then this blow out did not ruin the attraction.

WF

[Alphagame]

The problem is, if you've got your feet facing her, the body language says you are seeking her attention. You have to turn your feet to address the set or you'll be weird. If you have your feet facing the target and she turns her shoulder against you, there is no way to save face in that instant. The other girls in the place will notice it.

I think my new MO is gonna be to get the fuck out of the entire venue when that happens. That first set is critical.

The strange thing is, I've been through this a few times, where I stay in the same bar and basically wreck the entire room, just getting blown out of set after set. But if I leave that place and walk into a new venue, it's a whole new ballgame. The same exact openers and routines will open with women who haven't witnessed me just getting blown out.

[Tribulus1000]

This is a really good post. Love it.

If a girl said that her and the other girls noticed you as soon as you came in, that means that they're waiting for you to approach them.

Have you guys used short set method? Craig from DYD came up with it but I suspect its been around forever.

You basically go around opening and getting good responses and then leaving.
You do things like toast glasses, high fives, hand shakes or even dances and then say "You guys are cool, I gotta run and meet my buddies." and you go onto the next set.
Or you say "I gotta go to the bathroom, are you gonna be here?" (Sounds like a girl, doesn't it?)

So you keep that up for an hour or so and then you kinda kick back and see who's interested.

In the past I did this and it felt like momentum was building up. Like my "value" went up.

I think I posted it here on DPUA a while back.

[dubya]

This is what I think...

I think you're over thinking this.
I've heard about the psychological thing where you can tell what (or who) someone is interested in by where there feet are pointing but I not sure how useful that actually is. Your suggestion is that you arrange your feet so that you look interested in the whole group rather than one person. I doubt that most people would consciously notice that (Maybe subconsciously they would, I don't know). But why not actually BE INTERESTED in the whole group?

If a girl is in a bar with people what are the odds that those people are her friends? I'd say around 99.99999%. If you enter a set and focus completely on your target while ignoring her friends, what does that sub communicate?

It communicates that you're really not the outgoing friendly guy that you are trying to pretend to be. It communicates that you are only interested in the girl. It communicates that you are rude because you are actually being rude to her friends.

Making yourself interested in the whole group will take care of your body language. You wont have to think about it and consciously try to correct it. It'll correct itself. Her friends could be your best wings...

Trib:
The short set method sounds good to me. Actually it sounds a lot like Adam London's method. Being a friendly guy and approaching everyone in the room gets noticed and makes it so you can walk up and start talking to anyone at any time.

[Westfall]

Your value does not depend on the reactions of others. I know this might be hard to believe, but on occasion I get blown out horrifically bad. I don't care, it's funny to me. I suggest using one of these lines after you get blown out. Keep smiling the whole time

WF: Those girls over there told me to get lost, so I thought I'd come chat with you guys. (juggler)

WF: Damn that was embarassing. Did you see how those girls blew me out like that? I can't talk to the ladies very well...I get all nervous and shit (while being really comfortable and confident)

WF

[Tribulus1000]

Your value does not depend on the reactions of others.

True.

[Tribulus1000]

Yeah and your boys or wings can also help. If you guys are having a good time and cracking jokes, then women notice that stuff. Its a positive in their eyes.

I was out with a friend of mine this weekend and a girl approached us. Its rare, but it happened. We were both smiling and joking and just hanging out.

Another thing you can do is to wave, smile and flirt with them from across the room.
Then it becomes super easy to walk up and start up a convo.

[dubya]

Your value does not depend on the reactions of others.

True.

More importantly your enjoyment does not depend on it.
I've come to understand what I think zine said, I'm here to amuse myself not others. If I get blown out, it amuses me.

When you can look a hot girl in the eye and laugh as she is telling you to fuck off and flipping you the bird then you are enjoying the moment and not giving a shit what she or anyone else is thinking.

I believe that is high value.
You can then turn to the next girl and say, "hey, did you just see that girl tell me to fuck off?"

[Alphagame]

I know everyone is trying to maintain a good attitude with regards to being blown out, but if you walk several feet across the venue to open an all female set and you get the back turn before you exit the set, there's no way other women in the venue won't notice it.

I've got a rebuttal to the back turn that I just developed. Talking VERY loundly, as soon as the shoulder turns and I have the negative body language...

"So anyway, I was fucking my sister the other night, and she mentioned that I'm the exact same size as grandpa."

And hell yes, I'm gonna yell that in a real deep voice, such there's no way she won't hear it.

If she doesn't turn back around after hearing that, I don't know what else to do. But when she does turn around after hearing that, I'm gonna shut her out quickly with negative body language. I think this might actually help me save face so I don't have to change venue.