The more I try and open...

[Westfall]

You should change the venues where you go.

Q: I have a toothache
A: I know a good proctologist

There are lots of options when it comes to nightgame: anything from Country bars to Ultralounges to hole in the walls. Try a traditional Irish pub or do some karaoke.

Karaoke works for me because I can do that and get pumped up and then follow up on another venue.

If you're in Dallas, try Fort Worth.

Because it's some how different in Fort Worth?? If you have trouble opening girls in dallas, chances are you'll have trouble opening girls in FW. The venue simply does not matter when it comes to opening.

You can also do some of that state pumping stuff.
One of the best ones in this category is Cajun's "Jagger off" which is where you go out with a buddy and you have to imitate Mick Jagger of The Rolling Stones whenever your buddy calls out "Jagger Off".

Personally I think goofy antics like this are harmful. You don't need to pretend like you're someone else to go talk to a girl. Crazy antics are fine, but they should be done from the frame that you're doing it to amuse yourself (read Zine's post). Quite simply opening a girl is no big deal.

Now I know everyone says that "Just keep opening up sets and eventually you will become numb and won't care about your AA anymore." While I am trying to believe this "fact" I really think it is having a very negative effect on me. It seems like the more and more I open and get turned down, the less enthusiastic I get, which then leads me to become complete miserable. Shouldn't there be just a little taste of success somewhere? Even a person that has not shot a basketball in their life will make a couple of shots.

Am I over thinking the process?

Hi Bitches,

I think it is key to realize that opening a girl is no big deal. There is no negative outcome--it's all in your mind. So a girl "turns you down"...so what? Why should this bother you? It bothers you, IMO, because you give her opinion of you value--you care what she thinks and you beleive it is negative if she tells you to "fuck off". I wouldn't consider this a negative outcome...

I would suggest you start opening everyone, girls, fat girls, old people, guys, gay guys, everyone....just make yourself a sociable person and talk to people without being dependent on an outcome.

Additionally I recomend opening in a way that is congruent with your personality. fuck other peoples canned openers. Open with opinion openers that you actually want to hear the answer to, open with an opener that screens out girls who dont have a sense of humor such as brad p 's horse girl opener, or use one of mine.

God god anybody hanging out with WF isn't going to have AA very long

[Vector]

The venue simply does not matter when it comes to opening.

The venue does matter, sometimes a lot. Although I feel like I have to say the venue should never be used as an excuse .. the responsibility ultimately falls on you, not the venue. I hesitate to say some are easier than others, but some will fit your personality better than others, and you'll generally do better in the ones where you feel more at home.

In the case of Bitches, I don't think the venue is the problem. I guess because I assume you've already tried some variety of places.

Also I'll say, while it's true that you shouldn't be too focused on the outcome, there is a lot more to opening than that. If you are feeling too outcome dependent, you can get most of the way there if you can just manage to relax. More than likely, you need to fix other stuff too, like body language, perhaps clothing, perhaps hit the gym, etc.

Bitches, if you can get to the point where what a normal person would say didn't go well, you call "success", then you can always succeed in your own world, and without even changing anything else. Good for you, I guess. But it's not what I recommend.

[Bull Run]

The venue simply does not matter when it comes to opening.

Sorry WF, but the venue does matter. I know it doesn't for you because you're an opening machine. But other people are just more comfortable in certain places.

As an example, I have a much easier time opening in the suburbs. I suspect its because I've spent most of my life socializing with people from the burbs. By burbs, read North of 635, West of the Tollway, and East of 75.

When I'm going through a cold period you'll find me sarging in Addison a whole lot more frequently than normal.

Tribulus is right about this. Change your venues. I've sarged with guys that were bad ass in Uptown but sucked in the burbs, guys that can pull from the quietest bars but are useless in crowded spaces, guys that are cash money at the mall but pathetic at any night venue. Find the places that make you comfortable, learn to become successful in those venues, then work your way into places that make you feel uncomfortable. Rinse and repeat.

[El Fenix]

For me it's venue and momentum.

Venue: because it's very hard to talk in some places, cause its so damn loud.

Momentum: I need to get outta my head and be social from the moment we get there. If i wait too long, its much harder to get things moving for me.

[Howiestern]

Bullrun posted the info below in the field report section but I thought it certainly applies here:

Once you understand that only you know what you’re thinking you can begin to develop a strong frame that exudes confidence at all times. No one is infallible, but you sure can project that image to everyone all the time. You are what you think you are, others see the image of the person you choose to project. The Game truly is mental. It’s all in your head guys.

I've always found it easier to open on girls that I'm not even interested in. Start out with small talk on the fat ugly checker at the grocery store. When you get comfortable with that, step it up to the next level.

Sometimes I go to the nursing home and practice opening on old ladies in hospital issued night gowns. I've found fresh peanut brittle and cheese puffs are the way to win their hearts just an fyi.

After you've practiced enough and you are ready to go after what you really want, then go do it in an environment that you are most comfortable functioning in.

I always try to reflect on what I did do right and do more of it next time. Don't get hung up on what you didn't do right at this point if it brings you down.

[Fuzz]

This is just me, I guess, but I never really open. Here's the thing. My game relies around creating a large social network, in which case I'm constantly being introduced to new people. There are times, I suppose, where I do have to open new people myself, but it's not something I am ever conscious of and I don't necessarily have a stradegy. Good advice would be to go out and meet lots of new people. This is how you make friends. They will introduce you to other people and once you develop a social network new people will be introduced to you all the time. It took me almost a year to get to where I'm at, but I'm at a point now where I'm usually comfortable meeting and being around new people. The only trick there is re-opening later the girls you want to get with, which is much easier.

Also, when I was in college, I was part of the school paper, and I used to do the man on the street article. This meant finding four random strangers and asking them a question, taking down their name, and then getting a picture of them for the paper (picture was always the hardest part). Here, I learned more about opening than I have anywhere else. I noticed for one the incredible power I had over the women who I would interview. Everyone is really nervous about looking dumb in the paper, this goes for the picture as well as their answer to my question. Usually even the hottest girls would be shy getting their picture in the paper, and I had to manipulate and sweet talk them into doing so. It was a really good learning experience.

[Bitches]

Thanks for all the help. I really don't know what it is. I have everything from the MM memorized. I don't know, maybe i just don't have a "sexy vibe" about me? I really don't know. I'm still gonna push through this, but damn it sucks. Holla at me on the chat page this weekend. I need to get fired up.


~Bitches

[Bull Run]

Thanks for all the help. I really don't know what it is. I have everything from the MM memorized. I don't know, maybe i just don't have a "sexy vibe" about me?

Stop reading! Put down the books and get in the field. It sounds like you might be too much in your head. People can sense when you're thinking about the interaction instead of just being the interaction.

Good luck!!

[Westfall]

Sorry WF, but the venue does matter. I know it doesn't for you because you're an opening machine. But other people are just more comfortable in certain places.

As an example, I have a much easier time opening in the suburbs. I suspect its because I've spent most of my life socializing with people from the burbs. By burbs, read North of 635, West of the Tollway, and East of 75.

When I'm going through a cold period you'll find me sarging in Addison a whole lot more frequently than normal.

Tribulus is right about this. Change your venues. I've sarged with guys that were bad ass in Uptown but sucked in the burbs, guys that can pull from the quietest bars but are useless in crowded spaces, guys that are cash money at the mall but pathetic at any night venue. Find the places that make you comfortable, learn to become successful in those venues, then work your way into places that make you feel uncomfortable. Rinse and repeat.

I understand what you're saying and agree with you that women in some areas are easier to *successfully* open than women in other areas...for example women in Downtown//uptown are not as receptive to the WF experince as women in most areas...

My point is that venue has nothing to do with ease of opening because opening shouldn't be dependent on the outcome. I can open girls in downtown, and Ill have to open a lot more before I find one that is pleasent, but I can still open as good there as I can anywhere. I think it is key to note that the problem here is Aproach Anxiety, not openers not working, with respect to AA, I don't see how venue matters...if you want to open a girl you should go up to her and talk to her with the frame of wanting to see if she is worth your time...

Of course the opposite could be true, someone could have no AA and not having success with openers, and which point it would be wise to analyze 1st the openers being used 2) the body language, appearance and other such factors and lastly 3) venue.

Just my opinion...

Westfall

[Vector]

A matter of terminology: to me, opening means opening successfully. Specifically, reaching the hook point, where you're in some sort of conversation.

What Westfall calls "opening", I would call "attempting to open", and I would agree, if you are unable to attempt to open, then AA is pretty much the only culprit.