The Phoenix Model of PU

[Westfall]

I just want to say that I will be quoting Bull Run I love the "You would really look better as a man" line! That is hilarious, I think we should get a group together sometime and try some of the most offensive openers possible. Maybe its silly but it would crack me up.

You will be suprised at how many of the sets you open with horribly offensive lines will be receptive. It shows tremendous confidence, and if you're calibrated well, a lot of these will go well. Plus you will be having fun, which is all you should really care about. Society and all the girls in it are there for our entertainment....at least until they earn value as their own end in our eyes...

WF

[Tribulus1000]

This is a really good post btw. I was doing some of this kinda stuff already.

Playfulness is really essential in pickup.

The other night I was out with Rockstar and we see these two girls talking to this old guy.
He was like Bad Bob from the RSD CD. No shit. 65+.

And he was gaming.

So we saw them again later.

My opener? "Have you seen my grampa? He's wandering around and he hasn't taken his medication."
She looked confused but smiled.

"Yeah we saw you talking to that old guy."

She said "Like you?"

"We saw you talking to an older guy over there."

She said "Oh. He was real nice."

"Really. Grampa is a smooth talkin player. Watch out. He's on viagra!"

I talked with her for 10 minutes and got interrupted by her friend.

Good times.

[Vector]

Saying you're going to act like a freak in a calibrated way is a contradiction. Being a freak is by definition UN-calibrated behavior. There's no rule that says you can't ignore all feedback, but I don't think that's a very smart way to get good. Better is to accept feedback and learn from it.

Both the social freak and the excessively fearful are rejecting feedback, just in different ways. Neither are improving.

[Bull Run]

There's no rule that says you can't ignore all feedback, but I don't think that's a very smart way to get good. Better is to accept feedback and learn from it.

I totally agree. You can never ignore feedback. The whole premise behind getting blown out is to understand what you can and cannot say and do in social situtations. Most guys never learned the boundaries, this will teach them the limits and will teach them that being turned away isn't personal...it's never personal because people don't really know you. This is purely a newbie strategy. Once you're Ok with rejection, have learned to be comfortable in social situtations, and have learned proper BODY LANGUAGE (something I still have trouble with), you have no business going around testing social norms as a means to pick-up girls.

However, if you are naturally eccentric, then by all means test away. I'm not, you won't often see me getting blown out purposefully or acting like a social freak (whatever that may be).

Now, I'm in the feedback learning loop. If I pull, I want to know why. If I didn't, I want to know why. I try not to over-analyze but now that I've tasted success and failure I intuitively where I fucked up and where I hit a home run.

[Tribulus1000]

Saying you're going to act like a freak in a calibrated way is a contradiction. Being a freak is by definition UN-calibrated behavior. There's no rule that says you can't ignore all feedback, but I don't think that's a very smart way to get good. Better is to accept feedback and learn from it.

Both the social freak and the excessively fearful are rejecting feedback, just in different ways. Neither are improving.

If you are referring to my comments above, which I think you are, I'll just say that the set really did open.

[Vector]

No, there was nothing freakish about your situational opener. I was referring to this:

Doing these "wacky stunts" as you call them can help you learn to become outcome independent. It can also help you to become better calibrated & more social.

And I was addressing the general attitude that deliberately being a freak is a good thing. I agree with Mirko's comments on doing weird, anti-social things to get over your fears, but I was couching it in terms of feedback.

[Westfall]

No, there was nothing freakish about your situational opener. I was referring to this:

Doing these "wacky stunts" as you call them can help you learn to become outcome independent. It can also help you to become better calibrated & more social.

And I was addressing the general attitude that deliberately being a freak is a good thing. I agree with Mirko's comments on doing weird, anti-social things to get over your fears, but I was couching it in terms of feedback.

Perhaps I didn't describe my thoughts very well. Doing 'wacky stunts' is a great way to find bounderies, as BR says.

There were many things I thought would definatelly be so socially unacceptable that it would have gotten me blown out of a set hard, but after doing them, I've discovered I can do them and even get a positive response from a girl...

Of course there are other things I thought were fine, that I've learened are definatelly best avoided. Blowing yourself out purposefully is a great way to discover the edge---so you don't go over it in the future.

The same is true for peacocking....I found the edge by falling over it a few times. For instance, you were right, that the DANGER sign was over the cliff for *most* girls...but I woudl have never known unless I went out wearing that damn thing. Now I know where the edge is, so I run my game close to, but not over it.

Additionally, went I say "wacky stunts", I am not refering to things that will always have a negative impact. I recall AFC AL talking about how he and a friend would go up to girls and propose marriage with a ring, and the wing would come in and play the part of a preacher, and marry the two. IMO, that's a wacky stunt, but a good one that is fun to do.

Doing wacky stunts like this communicates that you're confident, social, unique, and fun...and perhaps more importantly, that you feel you're above the rules of social norms. And it ALWAYS makes for an interesting & unique experince when sarging....

Westfall

[playercool]

I ran around Target today with a stuffed lion asking girls to tell me what they thing of my pick up lion

That is hilarious. If you ever do this again I need to be present to laugh my ass off.

You might just need to avoid night clubs and bars and just use Target as your new venue.

[Kit]

Going out in public in a dress or going around saying "inapproperate things"--whatever the hell that means, to people is fun. It's also a way to screen out girls. Well, I've never gone out in a dress, but I'm quite certain I would enjoy AMOGing the shit out of anyone who tried to put social pressure on me

I have gone out dressed as a woman, makeup and all (although in college and on Halloween) and I have to tell you, beautiful women were all over me. I have never in my life been so popular with women. They were just walking up to me asking to have their picture made with me, kissing me, it was crazy. I do not desire to do it again though. The next day I just felt weird

[Kit]

I enjoyed this and can relate to what you are saying. You and I may share similar morals and values. We all have different ideas of what is moral so we cannot judge each other's beliefs.

One person may feel it's fine to tell a made up story to make a woman laugh and another may feel dishonest. Neither person is right or wrong. Jokes are made up and sometimes we tell them without prefacing it is only a joke. In fact, comic timing and suggested joke telling techniques, will usually tell you not to preface that you're telling a joke. Don't ask for permission to tell a joke, etc.

I believe that everything in our life is canned. There is nothing new under the sun and most of our ideas on how to communicate is learned behavior. Every word in our vocabulary is learned, correct?

Let's say I learn a new word today and decide to use it with ladies all day tomorrow. Am I being dishonest because I am throwing around a word I just learned yesterday? Am I more honest if I use a word that I have used all my life and it comes natural during conversation? It won't become natural unless we first use it unnaturally. Agreed?

By the way, I think you used "illicit" when you meant "elicit." - you write extremely well and I share your desire for an increased vocabulary. I was the dumb jock in high school so I still struggle to better myself every day and I keep a dictionary by me whenever possible.

If we ever meet in person, give me words and see if I know them. If I do not know them, teach them to me. I like to be challenged to improve my perceived, and true, intelligence. My vocubulary sucks so I'm not trying to say that as if you can't stump me. I am just saying I like to learn.