Bodybuilding and P/U Part 1

[bulletproof]

There's no peer reviewed studies showing excess protein damages kidneys in HEALTHY adults with no other medical illnesses.

Did you look or did you just take somebody's else's word for it? I found several.

Links for Kalop:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?artid=1899702&pageindex=1#page

http://www.nealhendrickson.com/mcdougall/040100puproteinoverload.htm

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Doi=20640 This one is only an abstract.

http://ndt.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/16/5/923

Dude, there's tons of articles out there (including peer reviewed articles like those above) that show the problems with protein overload. It's no myth. It will fuck up your kidneys.

Show me a peer reviewed article that shows otherwise. Maybe I missed something. If so, show me. It would be an interesting read.

Here are some that show otherwise:



High protein intakes are not damaging to HEALTHY kidneys. Adaptations to kidney function that are often cited as damage are more likely to be simply normal adaptive effects of varying protein intake.

Dietary protein intake and renal function
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/2/1/25
Nutrition & Metabolism 2005, 2:25doi:10.1186/1743-7075-2-25


Suggested BENEFICIAL effect of high protein intake on kidney function
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entre ... xed=google
Optimal intakes of protein in the human diet.
Millward DJ.
Centre for Nutrition and Food Safety, School of Biological Sciences, University of Surrey, Guildford, UK. d.millward@surrey.ac.uk

[Smirks]

It's almost like you are having this debate via snail mail. There's like a 2 week break in between each response.

[PicturePerfect]

lol

[JohnnyBravo]

No kidding smirks. I'm finished with that topic. Everybody knows where I stand. Hey picture perfect, you need to get rid of the smiley's in your avatar. Put the original pic up there.

Ok. I have some questions about creatine:


I'm 38 yrs old, 5'11", 201 lbs. Last measured body fat %age was around 23%. I've been working out 4x/wk with a trainer since late Nov. (one hour sessions). I was at 215lbs when I started in Nov. I try to eat between 2000 and 2500 calories per day with the approx ratios of 40-40-20 for protein, carbs and fat. Carb %age fluctuates between 40% and 50%. Fat is always close to 20%. Diet is clean.

Supplements include approximately 3 protein shakes per day (one in the morning, one before workout, part of one after work-out (other protein after workout comes from food) and one shake at night. I also take 3600mg of fish oil (1200mg TID) and an apex multi-vitamin TID (three times a day). I do cardio for 35-40 minutes after each workout (4 times/wk).

My goal is to look like the guys on the cover of Men's Health. I don't want to get huge (big and bulky), but I do want more muscle, and want to look lean and cut with definition (who doesn't...right?).

I am happy with my results so far, but I would like to see more....maybe a little faster. I am thinking about adding creatine to my current supplements. I have a few questions:

1. Is this a good idea? Will I be able to see more results faster?

2. I'm not too crazy about the idea of the weight gain I've read about that is associated with creatine. How much weight gain are we talking about here due to the excess of water retention? I've also read that creatine ethyl ester doesn't do this like the monohydrate does.

3. Once I stop taking creatine mono, how long does it take for the excess water to come off and my weight to decrease back to "normal"?

4. Obviously, muscles will "look" bigger due to the excess of water retention while on creatine, and then "appear" to be smaller when no longer taking creatine (is this correct thinking here?). With that in mind, the muscle should be bigger post-creatine than pre-creatine....? Right?

5. Is the puffiness due to water retention concentrated only in the muscle tissue or is it an all over the body kind of puffiness? Basically I'm asking if I'll look "puffy" all over.

6. If I decide to try it, what kind/brand is best? I'm also not too crazy about having to increase simple carbs just to increase the absorption of the creatine. However, I think with creatine ethyl ester, simple carbs are not needed.

Would Designer Supplement's Xceed fit with what I'm already taking? Is there something out there that's better?

Opinions on Beverly International's Creatine Select with Phosphates anybody?? Pros and cons of creatine phosphate?

7. Is creatine ethyl ester and creatine phosphate safe to take?

Thanks for taking you time to answer/explain.
JB

[El Fenix]

No kidding smirks. I'm finished with that topic. Everybody knows where I stand. Hey picture perfect, you need to get rid of the smiley's in your avatar. Put the original pic up there.

Ok. I have some questions about creatine:


I'm 38 yrs old, 5'11", 201 lbs. Last measured body fat %age was around 23%. I've been working out 4x/wk with a trainer since late Nov. (one hour sessions). I was at 215lbs when I started in Nov. I try to eat between 2000 and 2500 calories per day with the approx ratios of 40-40-20 for protein, carbs and fat. Carb %age fluctuates between 40% and 50%. Fat is always close to 20%. Diet is clean.

Supplements include approximately 3 protein shakes per day (one in the morning, one before workout, part of one after work-out (other protein after workout comes from food) and one shake at night. I also take 3600mg of fish oil (1200mg TID) and an apex multi-vitamin TID (three times a day). I do cardio for 35-40 minutes after each workout (4 times/wk).

My goal is to look like the guys on the cover of Men's Health. I don't want to get huge (big and bulky), but I do want more muscle, and want to look lean and cut with definition (who doesn't...right?).

I am happy with my results so far, but I would like to see more....maybe a little faster. I am thinking about adding creatine to my current supplements. I have a few questions:

1. Is this a good idea? Will I be able to see more results faster?

2. I'm not too crazy about the idea of the weight gain I've read about that is associated with creatine. How much weight gain are we talking about here due to the excess of water retention? I've also read that creatine ethyl ester doesn't do this like the monohydrate does.

3. Once I stop taking creatine mono, how long does it take for the excess water to come off and my weight to decrease back to "normal"?

4. Obviously, muscles will "look" bigger due to the excess of water retention while on creatine, and then "appear" to be smaller when no longer taking creatine (is this correct thinking here?). With that in mind, the muscle should be bigger post-creatine than pre-creatine....? Right?

5. Is the puffiness due to water retention concentrated only in the muscle tissue or is it an all over the body kind of puffiness? Basically I'm asking if I'll look "puffy" all over.

6. If I decide to try it, what kind/brand is best? I'm also not too crazy about having to increase simple carbs just to increase the absorption of the creatine. However, I think with creatine ethyl ester, simple carbs are not needed.

Would Designer Supplement's Xceed fit with what I'm already taking? Is there something out there that's better?

Opinions on Beverly International's Creatine Select with Phosphates anybody?? Pros and cons of creatine phosphate?

7. Is creatine ethyl ester and creatine phosphate safe to take?

Thanks for taking you time to answer/explain.
JB

1. creatine is mostly for strength. If your trying to get cut, and drop your BF%, it wont directly help that.

2. there is a product called Kre Alkalyn that is supposed to make you retain less water than other types. I havent tried it personally, but have only heard good things about it.

3. not long. couple of days at most.

4 this on/off size difference thing is being over emphasized. its not THAT big a diff, i promise. Your not gonna be like 250 one day, and stop taking it and deflate 15 pounds the next day.

5. some people say they feel kinda "bloated" on creatine. ive never personally felt that way when taking it.

6. xceed is good. kre alkalyn, as stated is good too. NO Muscletech products though. dont get me started on those guys.
Size on from gaspari is good too, but pricey.

7. yes. creatine is the safest supplement to take thats not called protein


Also, if your trying to look like a cover guy in a mag, your BF% needs to be about 10, FYI. My fave fat burner is cytolean from Gaspari. great energy, and results. You WILL feel it. If you dont want to feel it, try taking CLA.

[JohnnyBravo]

Thanks for the info El Fenix. I'm somewhat new to using supplements.

What is the deal with MuscleTech? You're not the first person I've seen who is not happy with them. Nobody has stated why though. (I've been reading on discussbodybuilding.com) Are their products just a bunch of crap or what?

I've been trying to read a lot over at discussbodybuilding.com....There's also another company (BSN - I think) that's being sued due to the lack of stated ingredients in the products.

[bulletproof]

1. Is this a good idea? Will I be able to see more results faster?

2. I'm not too crazy about the idea of the weight gain I've read about that is associated with creatine. How much weight gain are we talking about here due to the excess of water retention? I've also read that creatine ethyl ester doesn't do this like the monohydrate does.

3. Once I stop taking creatine mono, how long does it take for the excess water to come off and my weight to decrease back to "normal"?

4. Obviously, muscles will "look" bigger due to the excess of water retention while on creatine, and then "appear" to be smaller when no longer taking creatine (is this correct thinking here?). With that in mind, the muscle should be bigger post-creatine than pre-creatine....? Right?

5. Is the puffiness due to water retention concentrated only in the muscle tissue or is it an all over the body kind of puffiness? Basically I'm asking if I'll look "puffy" all over.

6. If I decide to try it, what kind/brand is best? I'm also not too crazy about having to increase simple carbs just to increase the absorption of the creatine. However, I think with creatine ethyl ester, simple carbs are not needed.

Would Designer Supplement's Xceed fit with what I'm already taking? Is there something out there that's better?

Opinions on Beverly International's Creatine Select with Phosphates anybody?? Pros and cons of creatine phosphate?

7. Is creatine ethyl ester and creatine phosphate safe to take?

Thanks for taking you time to answer/explain.
JB

1. Possibly. Creatine has the potential to give you a bit more repetition strength (think 1 to 2 more reps per set from the creatine alone) which over time can help illicit a greater degree of adaptation. It's not going to have miraculous effects however. The only reason I'd suggest it is that it's so damned cheap. You can buy a years supply of the shit for 20 bucks.
2. Bodyweight increases of 2-5 pounds are common. This isn't a huge deal.
3. I'm not entirely sure of this.
4. Well generally yes, your muscles will have a smooth bloated look as opposed to a hard, dry look. Trust me though, the change will be modest if you even notice it at all.
5. Muscle puffiness
6. Buy the cheapest creatine monohydrate supplement you can find in bulk. I suggest www.bulknutrition.com. Check out their brand. It's dirt cheap. Don't be a sucker for all these creatine derivatives. Check the studies yourself. There's not a single SuPeR HaRdCorE MAss STACk XTREME XPlOsION Creatine EtHyl SuPer PLUS type product out there that is going to work any better than just plain old Creatine Monohydrate. The only improvements some of those other types of Creatine have over regular CMH is that they cause less gastrointestinal distress.
7. Creatine as a sports supplement has been studied to death. It's absolutely safe.


Another thing, don't buy into the whole "loading phase" bullshit. Take 5 grams of regular CMH after your workouts with your post-workout drink (assuming you train atleast 4 times a week, otherwise throw around 3 grams in on your off-days as well). This will keep you saturated.

Don't really get hung up on the stuff. It might not do anything noticeable for you. If some day you are 300 pounds at 10% bodyfat, Creatine maybe contributed about 5 pounds of muscle tissue to the whole effort.

Always remember, diet, overloading of heavy compounds movements, and sleep will get you where you want to be. Perfect those first before you even bother with creatine.

[JohnnyBravo]

So I ordered a tub of Xceed, which is creatine ethyl ester. Lemon flavor, with a "whang" or whatever you want to call it...tastes like crap! Anyway, I've been taking it for about a week. On workout days I take one scoop (5g) before I workout and one scoop immediately afterwards. So 10g per day on workout days. On non-workout days I take one scoop when I wake up.

Now, I know some of you are gonna think this part is kinda funny. And you're right. It is. But I really want to know if this is normal. I've noticed an weird side effect since I've been taking Xceed. Over the last few days I've noticed that my urine smells kinda lemony. LOL. Is that normal? Is that something I should be concerned about?

[El Fenix]

So I ordered a tub of Xceed, which is creatine ethyl ester. Lemon flavor, with a "whang" or whatever you want to call it...tastes like crap! Anyway, I've been taking it for about a week. On workout days I take one scoop (5g) before I workout and one scoop immediately afterwards. So 10g per day on workout days. On non-workout days I take one scoop when I wake up.

Now, I know some of you are gonna think this part is kinda funny. And you're right. It is. But I really want to know if this is normal. I've noticed an weird side effect since I've been taking Xceed. Over the last few days I've noticed that my urine smells kinda lemony. LOL. Is that normal? Is that something I should be concerned about?

First, why are you smelling your pee? I know asparagus and a lot of coffee make it smell bad. But like lemons? Thats cool. If you can get it to smell like roses call me, I'll smell your pee

[JohnnyBravo]

First, why are you smelling your pee? I know asparagus and a lot of coffee make it smell bad. But like lemons? Thats cool. If you can get it to smell like roses call me, I'll smell your pee

Well, I didn't intentionally do that...at least not the first time. haha. A few days after I first started taking the Xceed I just happened to notice that something didn't quite smell right. I wasn't exactly sure. So I decided to pee in a cup the next time to see what the deal was. Sure enough....it was kinda lemony. lol.



On a serious note..... what do you think? Is that something I should be concerned/worried about?