Comments about DallasPUA on El Topos blog(Important)

[El Fenix]

Both parties are saying they got turned down. I deleted my posts on this because I wanted a question answered and wound up with controversy.
If both sides are saying they got turned down, then something must have happened, and what that was, is at the root of this thread.

[Rhody]

Go for it!

All you gotta do is this:

1. Get a group of guys.
2. Get a room.
3. Tell which ever one of them is most receptive that you want to meet and talk shop for 3 hours.

If I know El Topo, he'll do it. He's their latest posterboy and he's a saavy businessman.
Money talks.

$300 / 30 guys is only $10 per person! And you might have $100 for the speaker.

Its kind a like field of dreams, if you set it up, they will come.

Sitting around bitching and hoping something will happen is not the way. You gotta make it happen!

I don't think we want DallasPUA to be a sales agent for them where we sell discount packages on their behalf. We are a society of guys who help each other for free every day. If these guys are in town, then it would be in their best interest to get some exposure, and we have a huge society of potential customers. Rather than acting as a sales agent, we could arrange a free mini-seminar for them to show their stuff.

Juggler did it. Brad P and AFCAdamLondon did it. Deuce from Austin has done it a couple of times. Having them speak for an hour where they don't really have to give away their entire product gives them an opportunity to gain some exposure.

If they don't want to do it for free, or if you want to pay for it, well then you know where to find them. I don't see what that has to do with us.

On the other hand, if they want to give a talk for free to get some exposure, and they're willing to do be professional about it, which I have no reason to doubt, then I say we should get it done.

[Finesse]

If I may interject a question.

I hear alot of talk about them "Marketing their product" or "Making a pitch", "Exploiting the members".

I guess I just don't know even what their product is. I know about the ebooks, and different audio bits, but,

What is this product they are selling?

[Twitchy]

They sell Boot camps. They actually don't make any/very little money off of the ebooks, etc. as that all goes to TMM company.

I know these guys. Yes, they are out to make a buck because they have made teaching PU their job but they are also good guys who don't hesitate to help guys in the field, answer emails, take phone calls, post new material on their blogs - all for free.

As El Topo posted on his blog, it would be a 2 hour talk answering questions, giving personal advice, etc. with 15 minutes of it being sales. They would do this for free.

However, Mojo has done a very good job at keeping professional PU companies out of the Dallas lair so that it remains a free, non-pressure resource.

I will extend another invite to these guys if the majority of members would like me to.

[El Fenix]

Twitchy, let's do that. I second that motion.
What is needed here is clarity and reconciliation, not accusations and finger pointing.
I't clear there has been something going on in the past that has brought bad blood between us. Let us put that behind us. Let the past be past and move forward.

[Westfall]

I think Mojo//the Exec board's concerns about DPUA becoming a sales agent for for profit PU companies is very valid. We do not want DPUA to become one of those boards that pimps out its members to PU companies. As Mojo says, the community (and board) exist to help members wanting to better themselves, not to enrich PU companies.

However, letting them come and speak for free, would be a great idea--mutually benificial for both parties--like the Juggler event was. I would suspect many of the members would find the talk interesting, and if they wanted to learn more, they could pay for a full bootcamp.

If that is not possible, we have enough talent here in our own community to put on some very helpful talks by our own memebers.

Westfall

[El Fenix]

Here's the post that started it all, but I deleted.

Found this today on El Topo's blog:

"But what is funny to me is in Dallas the fine Lair people there would not grace us with their support to do a talk (deleted). The odd thing is that at the talk, yes we are there to show what out company has to offer, but in reality there is about 15 mins of that and an Hour and 45mins of working personally with the people attending.
And better yet when we asked about it to speak it wasn't just me, it was Sinn, Captain Jack and Me. And FOR FREE!
That is almost like a disservice to your community of PUAs to play into the bullshit PUA politics. It sucks that PUAs that have actual experience in the Game like Asian Playboy, Sinn, Captain Jack, Shaft, and the rest of em aren't yet seen fit to the high standards to the (deleted).

But how's that for a rant."

I'd like to know what's going on. So far we've had APB and now El Topo pissed at us. I'd like there to be some transparency here, so everybody knows what is happening.

[Mojo]

To set the record straight, we do not keep out for-profit businesses at all. We have had numerous of big name PUAs speak to the guys, providing free seats, products, etc, which we gave away. All a guru needs to speak to the members is to show some integrity. Some gurus have lied, bribe, use manipulative psychological tactics, all to sell a high dollar seat. I will not compromise my principles by allowing them to use less than ethical tactics or try to bribe me with a free seat to an over-priced workshop.

I’ve been in the community since 2005 and I have heard this over and over again from the more skilled guys in this lair… “I saw [insert guru here] out and I was not impress”. What does this mean? Maybe before wasting $2000.00 plus you should hang with one of the more skilled members in this lair or make friends with naturals. Needless to say, there are some top-notch big time PUA’s that I have met that have dazzled me with their skill and integrity. One’s integrity does enhance ones skill immensely.

El Topo memory is a bit fuzzy. They were not rejected. Again (from my earlier post), here are how things happened...

I did receive the following message to “whom it may concern” though they never asked me directly.

To whom it may concern:

Although I am not a member of Dallas Pua, I am a Mystery Method Instructor, and sarge out of DFW.
As you may know, Sinn has moved to the DFW area making it a very flavorful spot to be right now.
The 3 of us wanted to start meeting everybody in the local lairs.
So if you would know how to set that up, we'd love to hear from you.

Thanks

et

They did not want to acknowledge me so they used “to whom it may concern”. I do not like to play games. So instead of replying I asked Vector to send my contact information to Captain Jack, El Topo copied, with the message that I was open to talking about having them here. I received no response. I could never understand why they insisted on these games.

A few weeks later we sent another message inviting Sin to speak. No response.

If asking someone to be genuine and show integrity is too high of a standard, then I am guilty. Some gurus do not like this lair cause they are not able to easily exploit you guys to sell their high dollar workshops; that is the reason, not politics.

El Topo, I hope you forgo you preconceived notions of me. I hope one day that we may sit down, chill, and have a drink as friends.

~ Mojo


P.S. I had asked Twitchy a few months ago to ask Captain Jack and Sin to talk about speaking to the guys. And…. *drumb roll* no response.

Let’s stop this bullshit. El Topo, lets go out and let me buy you a beer

[Finesse]

They sell Boot camps. They actually don't make any/very little money off of the ebooks, etc. as that all goes to TMM company.

I know these guys. Yes, they are out to make a buck because they have made teaching PU their job but they are also good guys who don't hesitate to help guys in the field, answer emails, take phone calls, post new material on their blogs - all for free.

As El Topo posted on his blog, it would be a 2 hour talk answering questions, giving personal advice, etc. with 15 minutes of it being sales. They would do this for free.

However, Mojo has done a very good job at keeping professional PU companies out of the Dallas lair so that it remains a free, non-pressure resource.

I will extend another invite to these guys if the majority of members would like me to.

So they sell their time and ideas basically. Right?

And I say extend an invite. You have at least 4 that I know of that would attend.

[El Fenix]

And after 3 pages of dialogue, we are back where we started. We are a little closer to a resolution, but not much.
Let's set something up as long as it's within certain guidelines. This topic has been discussed before on how guru's will be handled on their speaking to the lair. This topic has brought that out into the open. What exactly are the current rules for these kind of talks?