The importance of (real) pivots

[Welsh_Dragon]

Most guys I meet don't understand how powerful the pivot can be. First a quick definition:

piv-ot
n.

A person or thing on which something depends or turns; the central or crucial factor.



Women have a dilemma. In the modern bar scene they need to judge a man’s value based on more than looks and what he says. Either of those two factors can be far too easily faked. In the case of looks it has also been scientifically shown that women are attracted to different physical characteristics dependant on whether they are ovulating. Off topic I know but if any of you are in LTRs or intend to be read this post by Kwag on mASF. Shit read it even if you are not - it's so money.
http://www.fastseduction.com/discussion ... D=2#366150

I have heard way too many times the phrase “I couldn’t get her so I’ll make her a pivot”. NO. If you are in the friend zone she will make a lousy pivot. You want her to be into you or at least not ruled you out. Also pivots are not exclusively women anyway. You will be judged by your friends, even if you just made them 10 minutes earlier.

So how DO you pivot correctly? It takes practice but what you are ideally looking for is to become associated with a social group that includes women which other women consider to be equal or preferably higher value than themselves. The social dynamics of each individual group interaction are complicated but generally speaking you start from the best available group to you at that time and work your way sideways or down. Women are very threatened by certain other kinds of girls. The venue you are in always attracts a certain clientele. Learn to spot which types of girls make good pivots in which types of places and use them.

Once you get a lot of day2s and FBs you can incorporate those as you pivots too but understand this. No woman will ever fuck a guy who is seen to be interested in banging a woman of perceived lower value. As you pivot your way up the chain (can be done very fast – within an evening) you will gain access to higher and higher levels of chicks. It’s one of the easiest ways I have found to get there so at least have it in the bag of tricks. The best PUA I have ever sarged with used awesome dynamic pivoting constantly.

[Mojo]

Good post.

It is a huge plus to have HBs in your social circle.

[warriorpoet]

i really liked the post, except for this bit:

No woman will ever fuck a guy who is seen to be interested in banging a woman of perceived lower value.

it might lower the guys value a little bit (depends how bad the girl is) but if the girl is of reasonable quality and is into the guy, then imo it DHVs via preselection.

also, anecdotally, a funny thing happened to me when i was going through large numbers of girls in a small town (where social pressure/social memory is a lot higher) that i also witnessed happen to a lot of other naturals- in the beginning, you fuck a 5 or a 6. women see you as being of lower value, and do the "oh, is she all he can get, ech" thing.

then you fuck another 5, another 6, another 5, a couple more 6s, a 7, a couple more 5s - and rather than your value dropping incrementally, it starts to go up. and up. and up.

something ive noticed about seriously successful guys is that they fuck a LOT, and the quality of women fluctuates madly - one week its a 9, then the next, a 5, and they dont give a shit.

so imo feel free to do what you want, but theres a bit of a slump in the beginning before you pass preselection critical mass and become a ManWhore

actually manwhore is an ugly word. what i meant to say was PowerSlut lol

[Welsh_Dragon]

I don't think I phrased it well but I was trying to say this is usually true in a group dynamic when you just met them. Showing interest in lower value girls usually disqaulified you with the higher ones.

I don't know everything though. Maybe the effect is negligible. I don't do it so hard to say.

Cheers,
Welsh Dragon.

[warriorpoet]

eya WD i wasnt slagging you. when i consider anything said on any of these forums, i flip back through my memories and see how the idea tastes to me.

ive used jealousy in the past with girls of lesser value to get better ones (and they both knew i was out to fuck, and i was picking one) which is why that sentence sounded off to me.

i can see interest in a less valuable female affecting her perception of your worth (impact on preselection), sure, and rejection by a female of lower value as a massive dlv, but it isnt something i really give too much thought to - i announce what mood im in and what im about to do personally

something really easy and low cost for you to try: next time youre chatting to a hottie, do the social commentary game (i use it heavily, basically consists of surveying the room and making comments about everybody there, which can be very effective if youre new to the city and/or playing the tourist angle) then announce to the girl that youve decided to pick up one of the girls in the room, then start pointing girls out and telling her why she is/isnt cute, and guage the hotties reaction to you

[TheDoGhoUse]

you have to keep in mind that girls survey a room and their surrondings alot more effectively then guys do - especially scanning for competition, girls wearing the same clothing, ect. In a very social bar if you can open into a HB9+ this will increase your stock with your surronding women and men. The best way to do it is hook the HB9+ and then leave her to not show over interest and keep her intrigued in you by coming up with a "i have to get back to my friends excuse,ect". If you go talk to other HB7+ women she will become slightly jealous somewhat and you can use this to your advantage with the HB9+. I wouldnt go too far down the social latter with the women though, you have to make sure they are competitive or that they will be perceived that way. Make sure you dont overextend your absence with the HB9+ and reconnect with her later.