Economic and women.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Bull Run;35417]Good God. Man, I know it's hard for you Libs to understand, but this is a Christain nation (even if it's not officially recognized...remember, the seperation of church and state clause is there to stop an official state religion, not prevent talk of religion in general). Get over it. No one is forcing you to believe in that entire concept.

I'm probably the least religious person you'll meet, frankly I don't believe in a lot of that gibberish. I see zero issue with having creationism taught, zero. I'm not saying FORCED on to students, but the facts taught to them. Or, more accurately, the shortcomings of evolution taught instead of saying that this is the answer...it should be this is the BEST answer we think we have (of course the earth used to be the center of the universe and was flat as well), here are the virtues, here are the shortcomings, and here are some alternative views on how life came to be.

Truth be told, evolution is 'faith based' in many respects. There are so many holes in evolution that it doesn't seem intellectually honest to espouse that as the one and only option that explains Man's existence. Again, I think evolution 'makes sense,' but I don't necessarily think that it's sermon. What about the flaws of evolution?

1. Evoluion is Missing a Mathematical Forumla -- Math is the verfication language of science, every scientific theory has a formula, except evolution. What is the working formula that shows how evolution exists in practice, or in theory?

2. There is No Genetic Mechanism for Darwinian Evolution -- Apparently we, as humans, evolved from the simplest form of bacterial life. The most basic bacteria has less than 500 genes; man has over 22 thousand. In order for this to occur, there must be a mechanism to be able to add genes. But no such genetic mechanism has been shown to exist (mutations change an existing gene but never add a gene).

3. Evolution is said to have begun by spontaneous generation, a concept ridiculed by biology -- People used to believe that garbage gave rise to rats, and raw meat produced maggots. This now disproven concept was called "spontaneous generation." Louis Pasteur proved that life only comes from life—this is the law of biogenesis. The origin of life is a precussor to evolution, but not required to explain evolution. Scientistis still have not proven how life even started from non-life, which as shown by Pasteur is impossible. But, conveinently, that little fact is not required to explain evolution.

Is it possible that, in the beginning that life was created, in some form, by a higher being and then over millions of years, life evolved through genetic variation and mutation, to create the various forms of life that have existed in the past and currently exist today? Sure, why not?

To say evolution is 100% correct is wrong until one can find all of the missing links in the fossil record and, even more importantly, until one can definitively show how non-life was able to create life.

There's nothing wrong with religion in public schools as long as they are taught from a factual perspective. I'd rather my kids hear the religious gibberish than have them listen to an ultra liberal, card carrying Union member mold their minds into mush. A school should be like the news, a statement of facts...sure bias will exist, but let's stick to the facts.[/QUOTE]

This is an effective argument for removing evolution from the public school curriculum. It does nothing to support teaching creationism in public schools.

[Guest]

lol he wants to FORCE people to learn about stuff they don't want to learn about!

That BR guy is holding a gun to your head and saying "Believe what I believe or it's over"

Maybe you should let the kid decide if he wants to learn about it... After all, you're already "FORCING" them to learn about Math, Social studies, English, and History...

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Muk;35428]lol he wants to FORCE people to learn about stuff they don't want to learn about!

That BR guy is holding a gun to your head and saying "Believe what I believe or it's over"

Maybe you should let the kid decide if he wants to learn about it... After all, you're already "FORCING" them to learn about Math, Social studies, English, and History...[/QUOTE]

Right, and I'm not holding a gun to anybody's head either. That ws my whole point; I was pointing out the hypocricy by using the same over-the-top language he did. Thanks for agreeing with me.

If they wanted to start teaching about Islam in public schools, then this conversation would be totally different.

[Guest]

You know, it's impossible to argue with the mentally unstable, i.e. Libs.

Even if I could, the intellectual juggernauts have come out...I have no retort to any of your arguments. You're right, I'm wrong. You win, I lose. I have seen the light and I repent...may all Capitalist pigs die a thousands deaths!!!

Commrades, I defer to your superior intellect...please show me how to live and what to think!!!

[Guest]

How on earth did this thread go south so fast?

We speak of "Christians" as if they were some mythical people, and none are around. Well folks, a few do exist around these parts, and I number myself amongst them.

A few points to ponder in this debate:

1. neither evolution, nor a creation or design has been conclusively proven. Let's leave the options on the table until we have a definitive answer.

2. Science can prove some things and not others. What science can test, and prove has been advancing. Many people forget that. We know more things about the universe and world around us than before. Can we be intellectually honest and say "the current scientific info we have goes so far, and no further?"

3. Evolution has never gotten over the idea of a Prime Mover, or a First Cause. The universe is filled with matter, and energy. Where did said material originate? The laws of thermodynamics pose a rather huge problem in this area.

4. Investigate the faith of many major scientists. Were these men and a women(a few exist) athiests, or spiritual? Look and see.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=El Fenix;35433]
4. Investigate the faith of many major scientists. Were these men and a women(a few exist) athiests, or spiritual? Look and see.[/QUOTE]

Depends on the field.

[Guest]

I think that's a great point. People tend to forget that even scientists have bias and it's not unheard of for a scientist to use 'science' or manipulate, or intrepret, science to further a social agenda...i.e. global warming.

[Guest]

Islamic beliefs are pretty much the same as Christians except for that whole "Guy -on-A-Cross" part...so...I don't think it would be much different unless you tell everyone that it's "Islamic beliefs" because there are plenty of ignorant people who hate Muslims without knowing the first thing about Islam

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Muk;35441]Islamic beliefs are pretty much the same as Christians except for that whole "Guy -on-A-Cross" part...so...I don't think it would be much different unless you tell everyone that it's "Islamic beliefs" because there are plenty of ignorant people who hate Muslims without knowing the first thing about Islam[/QUOTE]

I would say that whole "Guy-on-A-Cross" part is a pretty big difference. On one hand, you have the entire basis of Christianity revolving around the Son of God being sacrificed for us and on the other you have some guy who delivered a message...and no heaven sent sacrifice.

I'd say that paints an entirely different picture as to what people actual believe ABOUT God from both religions.

As far as the traditional morals go, yes both religions are the same. Preach the gospel, or the version ascribed to, be nice to neighbors and believe there is only one God. Basic tenements. But islam doesn't OPERATE on it's basic commandments... it operates on something else.....and this a very big one, sharia law. ... Islam functions around sharia law. Christianity doesn't. 80%+ of Islam is governed by sharia law. I'll assume that you have at least some proficiency with islam since you say it is the same as Christianity, and I'll assume you know what Sharia law is.

Christianity separated church and government, as a matter of fact... you can thank Christianity for the freedom of speech you have enjoyed so much here in the United States, and every right for that matter. It is Christianity that has granted this country with EVERY, and I mean EVERY, FREEDOM and [B][U]GOD given[/U][/B] right we have or have had up until this generation. There was with Christianity a separation of church and state not present in Islam.

So for you to sit here and say that "islam is like Christianity" is retarded as hell.

Muk, I like you, I wish no harm on you, but please pull your head out of your ass and stop following the Socialist-muslim Obama around like a little lap dog. islam and Christianity may be alike in their roots, but they are nothing alike in how they are practiced. One is a socialist government (islam) and the other is a free republic (Christianity). Get that straight and while you're at it, thank Christianity and God for your freedoms you enjoy today... what little are left.

[Guest]

Christianity didn't seperate church and government. America did that. And many of America's Founding Fathers, men like Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson were not Christians, but Deists (the freethinkers of their day).

You know what they called it when Christianity ran the world? The Dark Ages.

Christianity is responsible for the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, Fred Phelps, Purity Rings, and last but certainly not least the sex-negative culture we live in.

Christianity is responsible for teaching billions of guys to wait for their wife who God has picked out for them, to deny their very nature as a man, to view sex as a shameful thing, to live in the absolute most beta way possible.