Opinions Wanted on Party

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Bull Run;33853]Of the input I've read so far, I agree pretty much 100% with Smirks.

The fact that she invited you the party could or could not be an IOI of physical interest. She may just be promoting her party and wanted as many people there as possible or she wanted you to be there specifically. Honestly, I would have taken it as the former over the latter until she showed more interest when I was at the party.

Yes, I would have gone to the party. I would have rolled up to the party with my best-friend in the whole world...liquor: wine, beer, hard stuff, whatever you wanted to drink and thought was appropriate. This bullshit about going to a party with your friends, when they weren't invited, subcommunicates a weak frame and is, in my opinion, rude. She invited you, not them.

The worst thing that would have happened is that you went to a party where 99% of the attendees were complete strangers and you were unable to make an impact on the party then graciously cut out early. The best case scenario is that you show up, unleash the charm, win over the attendees, prove to her that you're a social leader, and then she's all up on you. Most realistically though is that you could have expanded your social circle and, most likely, could have generated interest from a couple of girls that you probably would have never met otherwise.[/QUOTE]

I agree. Thanks for the input, BR. And I agree with you about bringing friends when they weren't invited. It would have been stronger to go by myself, because she invited me into her world, not my friends.

[quote]Finally, and I have no insight into your social circle, but being a leader is not something that you claim. It is something other people grant you. If you've been told that you're the leader, then I'm just talking out of my ass. But, if you just think you're the leader, then chances are that you are not.

It's kind of like the argument that alpha males don't think in terms of being alpha, they just are. Or that the humble man is no longer humble when he's aware of his humility.

The last two paragraphs were really directed more to the noobs, definitely not a shot at you because, like I said, I have zero insight into the dynamics of your specific social circle.[/quote]

Without giving away too much of my identity on the board (I would have no problem discussing this with you personally), this "social circle" is a social organization that I started and built up myself. These are awesome people who are really fun. I am not the leader because I act all alpha in the PUA sense; I'm the leader because I took initiative, welcomed everybody, socialized, made sacrifices, and worked hard.

In addition, I did not bring up the fact that I was the leader to impress anybody here, or to solicit judgement on my ability to lead. It was just a fact that... well... just is. I am rather surprised that people are treating this as a point of attack rather than something to simply accept about me. I have to wonder about the agenda there.

I did not ask for opinions on whether I'm fit to be the leader of my own organization. I don't know why it's even part of the discussion.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Rhody;33858]
I did not ask for opinions on whether I'm fit to be the leader of my own organization. I don't know why it's even part of the discussion.[/QUOTE]

It's because I have no filter and when something sticks out as odd to me, I'll point it out.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Rhody;33858]Without giving away too much of my identity on the board (I would have no problem discussing this with you personally), this "social circle" is a social organization that I started and built up myself. These are awesome people who are really fun. I am not the leader because I act all alpha in the PUA sense; I'm the leader because I took initiative, welcomed everybody, socialized, made sacrifices, and worked hard.

In addition, I did not bring up the fact that I was the leader to impress anybody here, or to solicit judgement on my ability to lead. It was just a fact that... well... just is. I am rather surprised that people are treating this as a point of attack rather than something to simply accept about me. I have to wonder about the agenda there.

I did not ask for opinions on whether I'm fit to be the leader of my own organization. I don't know why it's even part of the discussion.[/QUOTE]



Didn't mean for it to come off as an attack. Like I said, I don't know the details of your assertion. If you're the leader of the social circle, then I believe you. I can assure you that I have not, nor will I, cast judgment on someone that I've never met in person.

Like I said, my statement was really directed at the noobs. It's important that they understand said dynamic. It's of no importance if they choose to believe, or not believe, you regarding your status in your circle. Nor is it important if some of the older guys believe or don't. Again, as you said, if you're the leader then I'll without a doubt accept that at face value. I, nor does anyone else here that isn't familiar with your organization, have any right to think or say otherwise.

Anyway, I think Smirks kind of hit it on the head in his last post. To some, making the statement that you're the leader of your social circle would come off as a bit contrived and be recognized as an intential DHV. It didn't appear to be something necessary to the story. OR it could just be a source of pride that you inadverently mention in conversation. I know all of us have done things that are very large sources of pride for us personally, but I, personally, don't really ever mention those things that I'm proud about when I talk with people. Those accomplishments were for me, not them so I keep them to myself. If you'll notice, most everyone on here does the same thing so when some of the guys see you mention something like that in passing it kind of catches us off guard.

In all honesty, it really is no big deal. We're all pretty cool here and no one is trying to flame you.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Bull Run;33861]Didn't mean for it to come off as an attack. Like I said, I don't know the details of your assertion. If you're the leader of the social circle, then I believe you. I can assure you that I have not, nor will I, cast judgment on someone that I've never met in person.

Like I said, my statement was really directed at the noobs. It's important that they understand said dynamic. It's of no importance if they choose to believe, or not believe, you regarding your status in your circle. Nor is it important if some of the older guys believe or don't. Again, as you said, if you're the leader then I'll without a doubt accept that at face value. I, nor does anyone else here that isn't familiar with your organization, have any right to think or say otherwise.

Anyway, I think Smirks kind of hit it on the head in his last post. To some, making the statement that you're the leader of your social circle would come off as a bit contrived and be recognized as an intential DHV. It didn't appear to be something necessary to the story. OR it could just be a source of pride that you inadverently mention in conversation. I know all of us have done things that are very large sources of pride for us personally, but I, personally, don't really ever mention those things that I'm proud about when I talk with people. Those accomplishments were for me, not them so I keep them to myself. If you'll notice, most everyone on here does the same thing so when some of the guys see you mention something like that in passing it kind of catches us off guard.

In all honesty, it really is no big deal. We're all pretty cool here and no one is trying to flame you.[/QUOTE]

Respect.

The bottom line is that I was asking for help. Throughout this thread, there are some helpful bits here and there. Overall, though, it wasn't very helpful. I asked for help and I was told that I'm a big wuss, that I'm only strong on facebook, that my friends are socially weak individuals, that I have "fear of being anywhere but" (whatever that means), and I was challenged about my statement that I'm the leader in this one social circle (which I casually mentioned that it "doesn't hurt" that I'm the leader, not to DHV myself to you). Honestly, I expected more from a community of men who are supposed to help each other be good at communicating with people. Am I supposed to take advice from people who can't communicate effectively with one of their own?

The post I like the best is El Fenix's quote. You can always count on him to convey the right attitude and put it very simply.

[Guest]

I am somewhat ashamed that I would have probably shied away from the party as well. I am not the best in regards to interacting with complete strangers at a party like this. I mean you roll up and you are invading the social circle of this party.

But...

What you eventually realize is the party is actually made up of many social circles, and many times these people don't know very many people at the party either. The Host is the only person that is going to know everyone.

The trick to something like this is going in and bullshitting with the guys there. Usually you can get in with one or two, or all of the guys and this will let you parlay into talking with the girls much easier. Depending on the dynamics of this party(Hopefully there are booze) everyone starts to let their guards down and become chill people. This almost always happens unless it is some lame ass party.

So you have a regret that you didn't go. Big deal we all have regrets...I have at least 978 million so far. I wouldn't bring up to this girl "Hey let's get together on a neutral terf". I don't even think she will know what that means. Just get the girl to starbucks or something like that one afternoon/evening and bullshit with her without the distractions(or back up) of your inner circle. I think this girl would appreciate it.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Rhody;33864]Respect.

The bottom line is that I was asking for help. Throughout this thread, there are some helpful bits here and there. Overall, though, it wasn't very helpful. I asked for help and I was told that I'm a big wuss, that I'm only strong on facebook, that my friends are socially weak individuals, that I have "fear of being anywhere but" (whatever that means), and I was challenged about my statement that I'm the leader in this one social circle (which I casually mentioned that it "doesn't hurt" that I'm the leader, not to DHV myself to you). Honestly, I expected more from a community of men who are supposed to help each other be good at communicating with people. Am I supposed to take advice from people who can't communicate effectively with one of their own?

The post I like the best is El Fenix's quote. You can always count on him to convey the right attitude and put it very simply.[/QUOTE]

You asked for [B]OPINIONS[/B], and opinions of the situation were given. If the responses you received weren't up to your standards, ask more specific questions. You mentioned more than once about being the, "Leader" of this group. I mentioned it because it struck me as odd. I also said that I mean absolutely no offense in my message to you, but you seem to be quite butt-hurt over the overall message I'm trying to convey to you.

If you expected different of a community of men who are here to help each other, then perhaps you interpreted the message wrong. Some times the truth ain't so pleasant. I told you everything that I thought and felt about your post, nothing more...nothing less.

You like Fenix's post the most. If all you wanted was a, "You should have gone, dummy." then you got that and more.

You're welcome.

[Guest]

[B][I]Opinions Wanted on Party[/I][/B]
[B][I]-I recently had an interesting opportunity, and I wonder if I handled it right. So I welcome feedback, even critical feedback.[/I][/B]

Hmmm........me thinks you should communicate more "effectively" what it is you are really looking for so we don't hurt your precious feelers next time! In reality you aren't looking for any opinions different than yours and absolutely nothing critical!

ps.
and Rhody you forgot to answer my question! ;)

[Guest]

After re-reading your initial post, I'm not sure any one really understood what it was you were expecting from your FR. This was the last line of your first post:



H[COLOR=DarkRed][B]ow many of you would have gone to the party? I know walking in, taking over the party, befriending everybody, and then leaving to do something else would have been very strong. But it is high risk/high reward. If her friends weren't friendly or open to me, then it could have backfired. What do you think?[/B][/COLOR]



[COLOR=Black]The first question was chimed in by all, including Fenix with his one-liner. You probably should have gone. PC mentioned that he might not go, but I honestly don't think that he's the type of person that would do something like that anyway. It's not a shot PC, it's just that you seem to be a little more proper in your Game. If that makes sense.

You went on to talk about how going to the party could have made you look good. Then, you backpedaled and stated that it could blow up in your face. Well, anything we do out there in the field can blow up in our face. That's one of the hardest things about PU. Gauging when the risk is low and the reward high. That's when we feel emboldened and generally act like ourselves the most, which results in us being dangerous and scary successful. But, 95% of the time you simply don't know what the risk/reward to a situation is until you're in that situation and you're processing the signals you receive during the interaction(s). And, even then you still don't know the risk/reward.

In my opinion, being able to understand that you are entering the unknown and still remaining confident and unfazed even if the odds or the risk/reward balance isn't all that appealling to you is one of the things that truly demarcates very successful PUAs from moderately successful PUAs. In other words, the guys that say fuck it. I'm going to walk straight into the abyss, into the unknown and I'm going to make something happen because I know I can turn the table on the odds I'm facing. I suppose you would call it Faith. Faith in your ability. Faith in you Game. Faith in you as a person. These are the guys that are the most successful at our trade.

It seems to me that that's the core of the issue. In this particular circumstance, you didn't have Faith that you good create something awesome. You may have known in your head that you could (which I geniunely believe you did), but your heart told you something different. This is why you did not go.

So, when people said that you're being cowardly or that you can't function outside of your social circle, I think what they were really trying to say, albeit not in the most articulate manner (a dynamic of which I am admittedly guilty), is that you lacked that Faith that you could make that situation something very positive even if it was outside of your comfort zone.

As for your next step with this chicka, I think you simply just get her out for a drink or some coffee and then go from there. No mention of neutral ground or social territory, just two people getting to know each other while they enjoy a yummy beverage.

Finally, I think all of us have stated that we didn't really challenge your assertion that you're the social circle leader. I think we just thought it was odd, and called it out for what we perceived it to be.
[/COLOR]

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Bull Run;33892]After re-reading your initial post, I'm not sure any one really understood what it was you were expecting from your FR. This was the last line of your first post:



H[COLOR=darkred][B]ow many of you would have gone to the party? I know walking in, taking over the party, befriending everybody, and then leaving to do something else would have been very strong. But it is high risk/high reward. If her friends weren't friendly or open to me, then it could have backfired. What do you think?[/B][/COLOR]



[COLOR=black]The first question was chimed in by all, including Fenix with his one-liner. You probably should have gone. PC mentioned that he might not go, but I honestly don't think that he's the type of person that would do something like that anyway. It's not a shot PC, it's just that you seem to be a little more proper in your Game. If that makes sense.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]You went on to talk about how going to the party could have made you look good. Then, you backpedaled and stated that it could blow up in your face. Well, anything we do out there in the field can blow up in our face. That's one of the hardest things about PU. Gauging when the risk is low and the reward high. That's when we feel emboldened and generally act like ourselves the most, which results in us being dangerous and scary successful. But, 95% of the time you simply don't know what the risk/reward to a situation is until you're in that situation and you're processing the signals you receive during the interaction(s). And, even then you still don't know the risk/reward.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]In my opinion, being able to understand that you are entering the unknown and still remaining confident and unfazed even if the odds or the risk/reward balance isn't all that appealling to you is one of the things that truly demarcates very successful PUAs from moderately successful PUAs. In other words, the guys that say fuck it. I'm going to walk straight into the abyss, into the unknown and I'm going to make something happen because I know I can turn the table on the odds I'm facing. I suppose you would call it Faith. Faith in your ability. Faith in you Game. Faith in you as a person. These are the guys that are the most successful at our trade.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]It seems to me that that's the core of the issue. In this particular circumstance, you didn't have Faith that you good create something awesome. You may have known in your head that you could (which I geniunely believe you did), but your heart told you something different. This is why you did not go.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]So, when people said that you're being cowardly or that you can't function outside of your social circle, I think what they were really trying to say, albeit not in the most articulate manner (a dynamic of which I am admittedly guilty), is that you lacked that Faith that you could make that situation something very positive even if it was outside of your comfort zone.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]As for your next step with this chicka, I think you simply just get her out for a drink or some coffee and then go from there. No mention of neutral ground or social territory, just two people getting to know each other while they enjoy a yummy beverage.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]Finally, I think all of us have stated that we didn't really challenge your assertion that you're the social circle leader. I think we just thought it was odd, and called it out for what we perceived it to be.[/COLOR]
[/QUOTE]

Great assessment.

I am the type of person who is very aware of his limitations... in a good way. I play to my strengths, which I think is what PC was saying. What caused me hesitation is not necessarily a lack of faith in myself, although I'm sure on a subconscious level that's true to an extent, but not knowing whether the party would be a situation that plays to my strengths. And that gets to the heart of my initial question, the one I intended to ask: if you're not uber alpha and money in any situation, is it wise to put yourself in a situation where you can't control many of the variables? You answered that question nicely.

So here's an update. Last night, she invited me to go to a bar with her and I went. We ran into a group of her friends there, about six guys and one girl. She introduced me to the ones that acknowledged our existence, and they shook hands and turned their backs. They were pretty drunk and just having fun, acting immature, and tooling on each other. That's what drunk guys do, so no biggie.

Every time she and I would start a conversation, one of them would interrupt by getting right in her face. It seemed pretty deliberate, but who knows. I said, "I'm... distracted, so I'm going over there." She followed me.
HB: I'm sorry. Those guys are being dickheads.
Me: They're just having fun. Don't worry about it.
HB: No, they're being assholes.
She walked back to the group, and I started talking to some other people there. I could overhear her saying, "you guys are being assholes," and them saying, "come on, we're just having fun."

She came back in better spirits and we were hanging with this other group. They bought us a couple of drinks. She was getting drunk. She started dancing really sexy. It was nice. Lots of kino, hugging, holding hands, etc. She bought me a couple of drinks. I was getting drunk, which I rarely ever do. Those people left and we rejoined her friends who were much better behaved. The group opened up and we were all having fun.

At this point, surrounded by her friends, I went for the kiss.
Me: Come here, I have a question. If I were to kiss you right now, what would I rate your kiss on a scale of 1 to 10?
HB: I don't know.
Me: Let's find out.
Kissing ensues.
HB: I always knew you'd be a good kisser. But I invited you to two parties.
(The conversation was a little disconnected because she was drunk. I stayed very chill and stated things very matter-of-fact.)
Me: In the span of three days, but yeah, I would like to have gone.
HB: I know it was short notice. Still, I invited you to two parties.
Me: Yeah. I wish I could have gone, but I couldn't.
HB: I know you have a kid and everything... so... but I invited you to the party.
Me: Yeah, I couldn't make it. Are you in a hurry?
HB: No, I'm not in a hurry. It's just that I know you have a kid, so I want you to know I understand that.
Me: I respect that.

So it seemed that in her mind she made her intentions known and I rebuffed her. But it also seemed that she assumed that I couldn't make the party because I had my kid, so she was trying to reconcile that. Interesting...

Anyway, she had to get up really early, so we parted shortly after that. It won't be a problem getting her on a real day2 and escalating. She made her interest known pretty clearly.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Rhody;33894]
HB: I always knew you'd be a good kisser. But I invited you to two parties.
HB: I know it was short notice. Still, I invited you to two parties.
HB: but I invited you to the party.

[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]"It won't be a problem getting her on a real day2 and escalating. She made her interest known pretty clearly."[/QUOTE]I doubt very seriously it'll be as easy as you let on; you're starting out with 2 strikes. Unless I have misjudged the frame, Shit tests in you're future, I see.