Dallas PUA
The Pickup Artist Playground
opening and approch anxiety i have to get on top of this.
30 posts
• Page 3 of 3 • 1, 2, 3
by Guest » Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:19 pm
Maybe I misunderstood some of the comments above. However, if self-esteem is a function of accomplishments, than that is illusory self-esteem.
There are definitions of self-esteem and tests on how much you have all over the web, so I won't discuss that. But a person with high self-esteem should still have high self-esteem even when he loses his accomplishments. Because he knows he has it in him to take action.
Take action towards a goal. That will do much more for your self-esteem than the goal itself.
There are definitions of self-esteem and tests on how much you have all over the web, so I won't discuss that. But a person with high self-esteem should still have high self-esteem even when he loses his accomplishments. Because he knows he has it in him to take action.
Take action towards a goal. That will do much more for your self-esteem than the goal itself.
- Guest
- Guest
by Guest » Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:22 pm
[QUOTE=zine;33539]how do you lose accomplishments that happened in the past?[/QUOTE]
Define accomplishments :)
You can lose them if
- it's money
- it's a position at work (i.e. you were once CEO, but now aren't)
- if you were married but are now divorced
- if you lived in a city where you had great friends, but moved somewhere new where you know no one.
- etc. ad infinitum
They still happened, but you no longer have them, hence the word "lost."
Define accomplishments :)
You can lose them if
- it's money
- it's a position at work (i.e. you were once CEO, but now aren't)
- if you were married but are now divorced
- if you lived in a city where you had great friends, but moved somewhere new where you know no one.
- etc. ad infinitum
They still happened, but you no longer have them, hence the word "lost."
- Guest
by Guest » Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:45 pm
Wow. A lot of good stuff here guys.
I would say self-esteem is knowing that you can achieve. Knowing that you have personal effectiveness in the world. It's the opposite of helplessness. If your happiness is tied to 'having' (maybe money, maybe women, maybe status) then it will rise and fall with your fortune, but if your esteem is rooted in the knowledge that you can achieve what you set out to get, then that will be more consistent. And ironically sometimes it requires losses to realize that.
As for approach anxiety, I say it is not a fear of failure or of rejection. It is fundamentally a fear of judgment.
When I first took my bootcamp, I had no hesitation in approaching, because I was worried that my instructor would think I was a pussy. So it was a fear of judgment but in the opposite direction.
One of the problems for me with going out with a bunch of guys is I don't want to make a mistake or be less than awesome in front of the guys. I think this is a strong effect for a lot of people.
Other sources of concern are judgment from the girl, or from random bystanders. I think a lot of the reason people go indirect is to mitigate these fears with the notion that they won't realize it's a pickup. Which may or may not be true, but if it succeeds in lessening the fear, it's helpful.
The last one is judgment from yourself. Which it all comes down to judging yourself in the end, even if the judgments originate externally, you have to accept them for them to matter. This one is sometimes handled by separating the concept of your self and your behaviors. "It's not you that was rejected, it's your behaviors that were rejected." Which again, an idea doesn't have to be true to be helpful.
When I first got in the community, I felt like people would judge me negatively if I didn't "perform". So I had the fear of judgment working in my favor. I was much better at opening when I had an audience. But more recently it's been the opposite.
I get uncomfortable being out alone because I feel like I stick out. (Whether I actually do stick out is maybe an interesting theoretical question but not especially relevant to whether I feel like I do.) For me the best success is in a [I]small[/I] group of people I know very well. And by small I mean two, including me. Or possibly three at most.
I would say self-esteem is knowing that you can achieve. Knowing that you have personal effectiveness in the world. It's the opposite of helplessness. If your happiness is tied to 'having' (maybe money, maybe women, maybe status) then it will rise and fall with your fortune, but if your esteem is rooted in the knowledge that you can achieve what you set out to get, then that will be more consistent. And ironically sometimes it requires losses to realize that.
As for approach anxiety, I say it is not a fear of failure or of rejection. It is fundamentally a fear of judgment.
When I first took my bootcamp, I had no hesitation in approaching, because I was worried that my instructor would think I was a pussy. So it was a fear of judgment but in the opposite direction.
One of the problems for me with going out with a bunch of guys is I don't want to make a mistake or be less than awesome in front of the guys. I think this is a strong effect for a lot of people.
Other sources of concern are judgment from the girl, or from random bystanders. I think a lot of the reason people go indirect is to mitigate these fears with the notion that they won't realize it's a pickup. Which may or may not be true, but if it succeeds in lessening the fear, it's helpful.
The last one is judgment from yourself. Which it all comes down to judging yourself in the end, even if the judgments originate externally, you have to accept them for them to matter. This one is sometimes handled by separating the concept of your self and your behaviors. "It's not you that was rejected, it's your behaviors that were rejected." Which again, an idea doesn't have to be true to be helpful.
When I first got in the community, I felt like people would judge me negatively if I didn't "perform". So I had the fear of judgment working in my favor. I was much better at opening when I had an audience. But more recently it's been the opposite.
I get uncomfortable being out alone because I feel like I stick out. (Whether I actually do stick out is maybe an interesting theoretical question but not especially relevant to whether I feel like I do.) For me the best success is in a [I]small[/I] group of people I know very well. And by small I mean two, including me. Or possibly three at most.
- Guest
by Guest » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:02 am
[QUOTE]Define accomplishments :)
You can lose them if
- it's money
- it's a position at work (i.e. you were once CEO, but now aren't)
- if you were married but are now divorced
- if you lived in a city where you had great friends, but moved somewhere new where you know no one.
- etc. ad infinitum
They still happened, but you no longer have them, hence the word "lost." [/QUOTE]
Ah see I do not define my accomplishments based on what society tells us success is. These accomplishments are always fleeting and you can never have enough. An accomplishment to me is pushing myself to experience new things. Learning from the old things I have done and finally doing something off that checklist of life that all of us have. If it doesn't work out later then who cares.. I made the effort to do it.
Why is it that material goods and riches are so important to so many? Most riches that we want are just controlled by some rich media dude promoting the highest bidder. Some rich dude in france saying hey.. I think stripes should be cool this year.. go minions spread the word! Then we all eat that shit up and buy stripes, silly people. Screw that I determine what I want if I like polka dots then I will damn sure sport them with pride because they look cool on a guy like me. One who is proud of his accomplishments not because someone else tells him he should be, but because I have done what I really loved and pushed myself to my limits. Always living on your edge... that's how you really obtain an accomplished life and eventually high self esteem. Anyone can sit there and say it's not possible to ever raise self esteem, but I think it's only the ones that aren't too pussy to take that extra step, to close that risky deal, and to shit bitch slap failure in the face if she knocks you down a little too hard. Keep the pimp hand strong my friend.
You can lose them if
- it's money
- it's a position at work (i.e. you were once CEO, but now aren't)
- if you were married but are now divorced
- if you lived in a city where you had great friends, but moved somewhere new where you know no one.
- etc. ad infinitum
They still happened, but you no longer have them, hence the word "lost." [/QUOTE]
Ah see I do not define my accomplishments based on what society tells us success is. These accomplishments are always fleeting and you can never have enough. An accomplishment to me is pushing myself to experience new things. Learning from the old things I have done and finally doing something off that checklist of life that all of us have. If it doesn't work out later then who cares.. I made the effort to do it.
Why is it that material goods and riches are so important to so many? Most riches that we want are just controlled by some rich media dude promoting the highest bidder. Some rich dude in france saying hey.. I think stripes should be cool this year.. go minions spread the word! Then we all eat that shit up and buy stripes, silly people. Screw that I determine what I want if I like polka dots then I will damn sure sport them with pride because they look cool on a guy like me. One who is proud of his accomplishments not because someone else tells him he should be, but because I have done what I really loved and pushed myself to my limits. Always living on your edge... that's how you really obtain an accomplished life and eventually high self esteem. Anyone can sit there and say it's not possible to ever raise self esteem, but I think it's only the ones that aren't too pussy to take that extra step, to close that risky deal, and to shit bitch slap failure in the face if she knocks you down a little too hard. Keep the pimp hand strong my friend.
- Guest
by Guest » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:42 am
got your previous post mixed up with necros in my mind. Yea I agree with you. Feeling good about taking action I think is one of the best skills anyone can learn many people just give into their fear and sit back and complain instead of actually taking that step. Fear controls many, many lives in the world we live in sadly.
- Guest
by Guest » Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:00 pm
[QUOTE=Lazarus;33535]Maybe I misunderstood some of the comments above. However, if self-esteem is a function of accomplishments, than that is illusory self-esteem.
There are definitions of self-esteem and tests on how much you have all over the web, so I won't discuss that. But a person with high self-esteem should still have high self-esteem even when he loses his accomplishments. Because he knows he has it in him to take action.
Take action towards a goal. That will do much more for your self-esteem than the goal itself.[/QUOTE]
Really, self esteem can be broken into two components: dimensional ("I believe I am a good at pick up, and feel proud of that in particular") OR global ("I believe that I'm awesome, and feel proud of that").
The goal is to take those dimensional components of esteem and leverage them to create global esteem, assuming of course you lack that dimensional component to begin with.
Many of the things we do can provide us with self esteem, what you refer to as illusory self esteem. I have this or have done that, therefore I'm awesome and feel good about myself. But, my contention is that with enough illusory self esteem, via accomplishments (again defined by the person), I think one can bridge the gap between dimensional self esteem to global self esteem.
The thinking would be something like this: "I've done xyz so I know I'm capable and thus feel good about myself and how I have become." The point is to disconnect yourself from the accomplishment. You're not happy or have esteem because of what the accomplishment provides, but because you achieved said accomplishment. If it remains, then great, if not you know that are capable of moving forward. You realize that the absence of said accomplishment does not make you a failure. The chances are that you can get it back, or something close, and that's where the esteem comes from.
If you don't have global self esteem right now, the only thing you can really do to improve your esteem and how you view yourself is to accomplish. Global esteem would be nice to begin with, but if you don't have it you can create dimensional esteem which, over time, if followed by other instances of creating more dimensional esteem should provide one with some level of global esteem.
My point is that you can absolutely create esteem, how much depends on the person.
There are definitions of self-esteem and tests on how much you have all over the web, so I won't discuss that. But a person with high self-esteem should still have high self-esteem even when he loses his accomplishments. Because he knows he has it in him to take action.
Take action towards a goal. That will do much more for your self-esteem than the goal itself.[/QUOTE]
Really, self esteem can be broken into two components: dimensional ("I believe I am a good at pick up, and feel proud of that in particular") OR global ("I believe that I'm awesome, and feel proud of that").
The goal is to take those dimensional components of esteem and leverage them to create global esteem, assuming of course you lack that dimensional component to begin with.
Many of the things we do can provide us with self esteem, what you refer to as illusory self esteem. I have this or have done that, therefore I'm awesome and feel good about myself. But, my contention is that with enough illusory self esteem, via accomplishments (again defined by the person), I think one can bridge the gap between dimensional self esteem to global self esteem.
The thinking would be something like this: "I've done xyz so I know I'm capable and thus feel good about myself and how I have become." The point is to disconnect yourself from the accomplishment. You're not happy or have esteem because of what the accomplishment provides, but because you achieved said accomplishment. If it remains, then great, if not you know that are capable of moving forward. You realize that the absence of said accomplishment does not make you a failure. The chances are that you can get it back, or something close, and that's where the esteem comes from.
If you don't have global self esteem right now, the only thing you can really do to improve your esteem and how you view yourself is to accomplish. Global esteem would be nice to begin with, but if you don't have it you can create dimensional esteem which, over time, if followed by other instances of creating more dimensional esteem should provide one with some level of global esteem.
My point is that you can absolutely create esteem, how much depends on the person.
- Guest
30 posts
• Page 3 of 3 • 1, 2, 3
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests