Part 1 is in a reply thread nearby, but this might be worth it's own post. Methods are good and cool and fun. Today's social skills companies don't resemble earlier ones. They're smarter. We've been fortunate in Austin to have seen a lot of reps, and I'm a pickuppodcast devotee (to answer Welsh's question), but I can't say I've seen everyone's website or anything. Nevertheless, it does seem that everyone's coming to similar conclusions. There's also an aggressive avante garde that's trying some really interesting things.
The point is, there's no reason to reinvent the wheel. The advice, "just go out there and do it," which was largely useful in the past, is no longer good. "Just go find what works for you" should not be taken to mean [i]go suffer[/i]. The hard way of cutting your own trail has worse outcomes than the easier way of adopting a method. That doesn't mean go read a guy's ebook, necessarily. Find an active, contemporary dude and do what he tells you to do. I have seen too many screw-ups get good in relatively short periods of time to think it can't happen to anyone willing to just show up. That's all it should really take: if you'll commit to 30 minutes a day, four days a week, and participate in the social skills/mens movement dialogue, you'll get good in less than three months. I've seen it happen over and over and over and over. (spoony kept a hot honduran girl's attention for about a half hour last night, btw. all I did was distract the friends.) There's a point at which you have to just jump in the cold water, but swimming isn't about jumping in cold water, if that makes sense. That's just getting over the crazy games your mind wants to play with you. The important stuff is what happens after you go say hi.
For the guys who have been around longer, I have a challenge. In a year, get twice as good as you are now. Don't think it's possible? Is Dallas just not the kind of city where people learn and get better? That's fine, but if a new guy told you that, you'd tell him to take a ride. I'm not being very nuanced here, and maybe that's unfair, but start with this: What is one thing that you want to get better at? Go get twice as good at that in a month. You're not going to get better at it by going to Addison all the time :) I wouldn't say that out loud, except for the fact that I think everyone agrees with me. Addison has taught you everything it has to teach you, and it's not the hot-chick mine that people say it once was. Dallas is a flighty town that has moved on, and you should, too. Burn it. Burn it, and don't look back.
Dallas PUA
The Pickup Artist Playground
Methods, part 2, new guys
6 posts
• Page 1 of 1
by Guest » Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:06 pm
[quote1247972668=Pylon8]
The point is, there's no reason to reinvent the wheel. The advice, "just go out there and do it," which was largely useful in the past, is no longer good. "Just go find what works for you" should not be taken to mean [i]go suffer[/i]. The hard way of cutting your own trail has worse outcomes than the easier way of adopting a method. That doesn't mean go read a guy's ebook, necessarily. Find an active, contemporary dude and do what he tells you to do. I have seen too many screw-ups get good in relatively short periods of time to think it can't happen to anyone willing to just show up. That's all it should really take: if you'll commit to 30 minutes a day, four days a week, and participate in the social skills/mens movement dialogue, you'll get good in less than three months. I've seen it happen over and over and over and over. (spoony kept a hot honduran girl's attention for about a half hour last night, btw. all I did was distract the friends.) There's a point at which you have to just jump in the cold water, but swimming isn't about jumping in cold water, if that makes sense. That's just getting over the crazy games your mind wants to play with you. The important stuff is what happens after you go say hi.
[/quote1247972668]
I think I agree with this, more or less. Because people have a tendency of getting up in their own heads, I actually wouldn't recommend reading or "studying" anything until they're comfortable having conversations with people, until once they engage with others and begin to reach plateau points besides simply approach anxiety. For example, it's really interesting, but for most of our Austin guys, once they overcame their "fear of saying 'hi,'" the next major plateaus seemed to really be kino escalation or closing. Which is great, in a way! Considering kino escalation is its own beast (yes, yes, I know you need to "weave" it into the interaction, but really...it's different than conversation), and considering closing means you went from Point A to Point C in the conversation, that's pretty fantastic. I know that a lack of a number close or whatever is indicative of a mistake a few steps back, but the thing is, you've worked on everything in the middle. Now it's a matter of nuance, of fine-tuning, of figuring out what your REAL sticking points are. But once you know how your conversations tend to go, that's a good time to start looking for a method, practicing it, and refining it.
But how do you get to the point described above? That's where Pylon is dead-on. You do it through practicing WITH OTHERS. I would say it follows the same basic pattern: When you're first starting, talk to as many community people as possible, and find the ones you feel comfortable with. The ones you get along with and actually like. You're opening up a potentially vulnerable side of yourself, and you want to go out with someone who you feel comfortable showing that to. So the first step is screening for that person by meeting lots of members, the second step is choosing that person and going out with them and learning what you can from them. The important thing is selecting someone who actually knows a little bit, so that there's actually something to learn from them. You don't want to go out with someone who's just as nervous as you and you end up standing on the sidelines together the whole night. So once you find that person, do the 30 min/day, 4 days/wk, for 1 month thing. Then you'll have a better sense of where you stand, you'll have gotten more practice, you'll have a little more perspective, etc. You'll have NEW sticking points. Then, rinse and repeat.
[quote1247972668=Pylon8]
For the guys who have been around longer, I have a challenge. In a year, get twice as good as you are now. Don't think it's possible? Is Dallas just not the kind of city where people learn and get better? That's fine, but if a new guy told you that, you'd tell him to take a ride. I'm not being very nuanced here, and maybe that's unfair, but start with this: What is one thing that you want to get better at? Go get twice as good at that in a month. You're not going to get better at it by going to Addison all the time :) I wouldn't say that out loud, except for the fact that I think everyone agrees with me. Addison has taught you everything it has to teach you, and it's not the hot-chick mine that people say it once was. Dallas is a flighty town that has moved on, and you should, too. Burn it. Burn it, and don't look back.[/quote1247972668]
I'm not sure how much I agree with this, considering the definition of "good" is so subjective, and everyone's success tends to be fairly scattered (in general). But I think if you set up a routine for yourself (e.g., "I'll go out four times a week for 6 months"), you will see marked progress. It will be substantial, and you will have a lot more experience/successes/closes/whatever the yay you want to call it under your belt. So I guess I do agree with the "What is one thing that you want to get better at? Go get twice as good at that in a month" part, because that's a little more specific. :)
As for the Addison/Dallas/move on part, I disagree. People are people are people. Some scenes have more of the "types" of people you want to converse with or develop relationships with, and that's fine if you target those venues/areas. But there is something to be said for talking to people you don't necessarily want to sleep with and for developing your social skill set in as vast a way as possible. Because there will come a time when you DO want to start a relationship with a girl, and you need to pull out a particular tool from your toolbox that you thought you might never need.
But, when Pylon says he's not being nuanced, I think he is. I don't think he's blatantly saying to "Burn Dallas and move on to bigger and better things." I think he's saying EVERYWHERE is flighty, because people are constantly evolving, and you need to burn your preconceptions/misconceptions and simply get out there, wherever "there" may be, out of your comfort zone, and start methodically working on improving yourself and your game. Or maybe that's not what he's saying, but it's what I'm saying. :)
The point is, there's no reason to reinvent the wheel. The advice, "just go out there and do it," which was largely useful in the past, is no longer good. "Just go find what works for you" should not be taken to mean [i]go suffer[/i]. The hard way of cutting your own trail has worse outcomes than the easier way of adopting a method. That doesn't mean go read a guy's ebook, necessarily. Find an active, contemporary dude and do what he tells you to do. I have seen too many screw-ups get good in relatively short periods of time to think it can't happen to anyone willing to just show up. That's all it should really take: if you'll commit to 30 minutes a day, four days a week, and participate in the social skills/mens movement dialogue, you'll get good in less than three months. I've seen it happen over and over and over and over. (spoony kept a hot honduran girl's attention for about a half hour last night, btw. all I did was distract the friends.) There's a point at which you have to just jump in the cold water, but swimming isn't about jumping in cold water, if that makes sense. That's just getting over the crazy games your mind wants to play with you. The important stuff is what happens after you go say hi.
[/quote1247972668]
I think I agree with this, more or less. Because people have a tendency of getting up in their own heads, I actually wouldn't recommend reading or "studying" anything until they're comfortable having conversations with people, until once they engage with others and begin to reach plateau points besides simply approach anxiety. For example, it's really interesting, but for most of our Austin guys, once they overcame their "fear of saying 'hi,'" the next major plateaus seemed to really be kino escalation or closing. Which is great, in a way! Considering kino escalation is its own beast (yes, yes, I know you need to "weave" it into the interaction, but really...it's different than conversation), and considering closing means you went from Point A to Point C in the conversation, that's pretty fantastic. I know that a lack of a number close or whatever is indicative of a mistake a few steps back, but the thing is, you've worked on everything in the middle. Now it's a matter of nuance, of fine-tuning, of figuring out what your REAL sticking points are. But once you know how your conversations tend to go, that's a good time to start looking for a method, practicing it, and refining it.
But how do you get to the point described above? That's where Pylon is dead-on. You do it through practicing WITH OTHERS. I would say it follows the same basic pattern: When you're first starting, talk to as many community people as possible, and find the ones you feel comfortable with. The ones you get along with and actually like. You're opening up a potentially vulnerable side of yourself, and you want to go out with someone who you feel comfortable showing that to. So the first step is screening for that person by meeting lots of members, the second step is choosing that person and going out with them and learning what you can from them. The important thing is selecting someone who actually knows a little bit, so that there's actually something to learn from them. You don't want to go out with someone who's just as nervous as you and you end up standing on the sidelines together the whole night. So once you find that person, do the 30 min/day, 4 days/wk, for 1 month thing. Then you'll have a better sense of where you stand, you'll have gotten more practice, you'll have a little more perspective, etc. You'll have NEW sticking points. Then, rinse and repeat.
[quote1247972668=Pylon8]
For the guys who have been around longer, I have a challenge. In a year, get twice as good as you are now. Don't think it's possible? Is Dallas just not the kind of city where people learn and get better? That's fine, but if a new guy told you that, you'd tell him to take a ride. I'm not being very nuanced here, and maybe that's unfair, but start with this: What is one thing that you want to get better at? Go get twice as good at that in a month. You're not going to get better at it by going to Addison all the time :) I wouldn't say that out loud, except for the fact that I think everyone agrees with me. Addison has taught you everything it has to teach you, and it's not the hot-chick mine that people say it once was. Dallas is a flighty town that has moved on, and you should, too. Burn it. Burn it, and don't look back.[/quote1247972668]
I'm not sure how much I agree with this, considering the definition of "good" is so subjective, and everyone's success tends to be fairly scattered (in general). But I think if you set up a routine for yourself (e.g., "I'll go out four times a week for 6 months"), you will see marked progress. It will be substantial, and you will have a lot more experience/successes/closes/whatever the yay you want to call it under your belt. So I guess I do agree with the "What is one thing that you want to get better at? Go get twice as good at that in a month" part, because that's a little more specific. :)
As for the Addison/Dallas/move on part, I disagree. People are people are people. Some scenes have more of the "types" of people you want to converse with or develop relationships with, and that's fine if you target those venues/areas. But there is something to be said for talking to people you don't necessarily want to sleep with and for developing your social skill set in as vast a way as possible. Because there will come a time when you DO want to start a relationship with a girl, and you need to pull out a particular tool from your toolbox that you thought you might never need.
But, when Pylon says he's not being nuanced, I think he is. I don't think he's blatantly saying to "Burn Dallas and move on to bigger and better things." I think he's saying EVERYWHERE is flighty, because people are constantly evolving, and you need to burn your preconceptions/misconceptions and simply get out there, wherever "there" may be, out of your comfort zone, and start methodically working on improving yourself and your game. Or maybe that's not what he's saying, but it's what I'm saying. :)
- Guest
by Guest » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:20 am
Culture.
This is all about culture.
What you have in Austin is a society based on learning, shit when you think of Austin what's the first thing you think of? UT. Period. So, when 50K+ of the residents of Austin are there to learn, you'll see guys studying pick up and making it their LIFE.
Dallas on the other hand is outside the walls of academia. The culture here is one of learning by DOING versus learning by studying.
It's kind of like this, if Austin and Dallas were voters in a presidential election, and you have two candidates. One had virtually no real world experience outside the walls of academia, while the other was not nearly as accomplished as a scholar but had massive amounts of real world experience. Which city would vote for which candidate?
Austin for the academic
Dallas for the experienced
And, there in lies the difference. Dallas is a city of DOING. It fits in our culture. Just as you have stated that you've seen a lot of guys get really good by studying and then doing, I've probably seen just as many guys in Dallas get good by studying a little and sarging a lot.
Now, some guys will need to study and completely and totally change their personalities. These guys will have to study, study, study before they can really do anything with any level of success. HOWEVER, they still have to 'just do it.'
Further more, in Dallas, we very much have a survival of the fittest mentality. We simply will not sit around and hold other people's hands in the Community. We want to have the strongest grow in an organic way. We want the weakest to fall by the way side. Austin is not this way, not at all. It's very communial. You want everyone to succeed, and you all stop your own growth, to a cetain extent, to try to help the laggards along. This is noble, and, frankly, the Dallas Community WANTS to see EVERYONE succeed but, we also understand that PU is not for EVERYONE. The cream rises, and we let it do so...
Further, you have an age difference. I assume that Austin's age demographic is probably younger and more easily influenced, while Dallas' age demographic is older and less likely to completely remake themselves.
The fact is that Austin's culture is a round peg and Dallas is a square hole...and we know how fitting those together doesn't really work out too well. Most guys in the Dallas Community are emotionally mature and, often, accomplished in every aspect of their life besides one...women. The goal for us is to take our core beliefs and retain those while we change ourselves, on the margin, so that we can better communicate our beliefs, our personalities, our person to women in a way that they will find appealing and attractive. Most of these guys are not here to completely remake themselves, but to just get a touch up. So, the drive to be better is very limited and isolated and specific. And, what most of us have learned in our lifetimes is that you do not succeed unless you do. Reading and studying is all well and good...shit, we all read and consumed material in the beginning of our respective journey. But, we stop consuming material once we had some level of success...defined by the individual. The point is that we stopped before we totally lost ourselves in PU.
In my opinion, many of these gurus are weird. Sure, they might be able to kiss close a girl in 30 seconds or whatever it is that they are doing. But, who are they really? Walking PU machines. They are no longer people. There whole life is PU. That might be appealling to Austin and it's community, but I think I speak for everyone in Dallas when I say that we don't want that.
As for growth...yes, the more experienced guys probably do have things that they would like to work on or change. But, you cannot force us to change before we are ready to do so. It cannot be mandated.
I'm not sure what the motive was behind your post...if there was one. But, let me say this. The Austin guys are weird. They are weird in the way that all they are is a poor mixture of techinques and methods from ebooks, DVDs, blogs, and podcasts. Can you have a conversation with a guy in Austin without them using massive amounts of jargon, referencing other gurus, speaking to specific techniques? Well, guess what? You CAN in Dallas. Austin guys are weird in the way that Bull Run, playercool, Lion, Pictureperfect, Smirks (and others) were weird when we first got into this...when all we did was think about sarging...when we lived for this. Now that everyone has 'cooled off,' I can honestly say that we have become normal people again. We go to dinners, we have pool parties, we take trips to float the river in Austin. We're friends, not wings. We're men, not pick up artists.
There's a reason why Austin has gurus hitting them up as much as they do. There's a reason that Dallas has virtually NO gurus hitting us up. Austin is lost, it's young, it's impressionable, it doesn't know who it is, it doesn't know what it wants...just that it wants to be something else. Dallas is grounded in the way that comes with maturity. We know who we are, we know what we want. The changes that occur here are, in most cases, on the margin.
Adjourned/Pylon, I hope that you both understand that your community and our community do not speak the same language. You'e a blue state trying to talk to a red state, you're a round peg trying to fit in a square hole...
This is all about culture.
What you have in Austin is a society based on learning, shit when you think of Austin what's the first thing you think of? UT. Period. So, when 50K+ of the residents of Austin are there to learn, you'll see guys studying pick up and making it their LIFE.
Dallas on the other hand is outside the walls of academia. The culture here is one of learning by DOING versus learning by studying.
It's kind of like this, if Austin and Dallas were voters in a presidential election, and you have two candidates. One had virtually no real world experience outside the walls of academia, while the other was not nearly as accomplished as a scholar but had massive amounts of real world experience. Which city would vote for which candidate?
Austin for the academic
Dallas for the experienced
And, there in lies the difference. Dallas is a city of DOING. It fits in our culture. Just as you have stated that you've seen a lot of guys get really good by studying and then doing, I've probably seen just as many guys in Dallas get good by studying a little and sarging a lot.
Now, some guys will need to study and completely and totally change their personalities. These guys will have to study, study, study before they can really do anything with any level of success. HOWEVER, they still have to 'just do it.'
Further more, in Dallas, we very much have a survival of the fittest mentality. We simply will not sit around and hold other people's hands in the Community. We want to have the strongest grow in an organic way. We want the weakest to fall by the way side. Austin is not this way, not at all. It's very communial. You want everyone to succeed, and you all stop your own growth, to a cetain extent, to try to help the laggards along. This is noble, and, frankly, the Dallas Community WANTS to see EVERYONE succeed but, we also understand that PU is not for EVERYONE. The cream rises, and we let it do so...
Further, you have an age difference. I assume that Austin's age demographic is probably younger and more easily influenced, while Dallas' age demographic is older and less likely to completely remake themselves.
The fact is that Austin's culture is a round peg and Dallas is a square hole...and we know how fitting those together doesn't really work out too well. Most guys in the Dallas Community are emotionally mature and, often, accomplished in every aspect of their life besides one...women. The goal for us is to take our core beliefs and retain those while we change ourselves, on the margin, so that we can better communicate our beliefs, our personalities, our person to women in a way that they will find appealing and attractive. Most of these guys are not here to completely remake themselves, but to just get a touch up. So, the drive to be better is very limited and isolated and specific. And, what most of us have learned in our lifetimes is that you do not succeed unless you do. Reading and studying is all well and good...shit, we all read and consumed material in the beginning of our respective journey. But, we stop consuming material once we had some level of success...defined by the individual. The point is that we stopped before we totally lost ourselves in PU.
In my opinion, many of these gurus are weird. Sure, they might be able to kiss close a girl in 30 seconds or whatever it is that they are doing. But, who are they really? Walking PU machines. They are no longer people. There whole life is PU. That might be appealling to Austin and it's community, but I think I speak for everyone in Dallas when I say that we don't want that.
As for growth...yes, the more experienced guys probably do have things that they would like to work on or change. But, you cannot force us to change before we are ready to do so. It cannot be mandated.
I'm not sure what the motive was behind your post...if there was one. But, let me say this. The Austin guys are weird. They are weird in the way that all they are is a poor mixture of techinques and methods from ebooks, DVDs, blogs, and podcasts. Can you have a conversation with a guy in Austin without them using massive amounts of jargon, referencing other gurus, speaking to specific techniques? Well, guess what? You CAN in Dallas. Austin guys are weird in the way that Bull Run, playercool, Lion, Pictureperfect, Smirks (and others) were weird when we first got into this...when all we did was think about sarging...when we lived for this. Now that everyone has 'cooled off,' I can honestly say that we have become normal people again. We go to dinners, we have pool parties, we take trips to float the river in Austin. We're friends, not wings. We're men, not pick up artists.
There's a reason why Austin has gurus hitting them up as much as they do. There's a reason that Dallas has virtually NO gurus hitting us up. Austin is lost, it's young, it's impressionable, it doesn't know who it is, it doesn't know what it wants...just that it wants to be something else. Dallas is grounded in the way that comes with maturity. We know who we are, we know what we want. The changes that occur here are, in most cases, on the margin.
Adjourned/Pylon, I hope that you both understand that your community and our community do not speak the same language. You'e a blue state trying to talk to a red state, you're a round peg trying to fit in a square hole...
- Guest
by Guest » Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:52 pm
I'm going to have to disagree with BR on much of this. I don't think it makes sense to extrapolate from the city, or from the group, to the individual. But any person can have any mix of learning, studying, ebook apprenticeship or whatever, versus jump in and do it, learn from the real world, take action traits. Both kinds of approaches can work in either environment. If the cost of failure is high (brain surgeon, parachuting) then you had better learn first, but in other cases, it's fine to take either approach. (I think one of the things that paralyzes guys in pickup is they mistakenly expect the cost of failure to be high in terms of emotional stress, which drives them to make everything perfect ahead of time, which is of course impossible.)
The other thing is I don't agree that Austin guys are weird. Sure, there is one individual we both know has a lot to learn, but I have met a bunch of guys down there and the ones I've met are well-adjusted and normal. TheGoatNY, and Dante, and Boomer, plus the old RDR guys are all regular people who are socially normal. And probably others I'm forgetting. Dallas has a WF here and a Trib there, and others, which I think is to be expected for anywhere. If you want to make a generalization, you could say pickup guys are weird.
For me, I compare it to Tennis. If you totally suck, then it's not enjoyable. You try, and it's just a miserable experience, and you can slog through it and just get better on your own, or you can take lessons and improve much faster. It is entirely possible to get to the same level without lessons, but it requires more effort and more time, and the likelihood of quitting is higher. But once you're off the ground, then you learn based on how much you play. Lessons do not help nearly as much. It's all about getting the experience, which requires playing. I think from the perspective of someone in this position it's easy to forget how difficult and unpleasant it is for people starting out.
If a guy has been unsuccessful, telling them to just suck it up and go out and do it may or may not be helpful, depending on what his problem is. If he's a kj who just theorizes and speculates, then yeah, he needs to be pushed to act. But if someone keeps trying and keeps failing in the same way for the same reason, saying to just not be a pussy is unhelpful.
Especially for new guys, there are usually some things that are relatively easy to fix, like hygiene, or body language, or something like that. Enough to get them off the ground and into the zone where they can learn from their own experience. I don't think anyone anywhere expects to have hand-holding throughout the entire process, but some stuff at the start, and after that, once in a while addressing specific issues along the way.
The other thing is I don't agree that Austin guys are weird. Sure, there is one individual we both know has a lot to learn, but I have met a bunch of guys down there and the ones I've met are well-adjusted and normal. TheGoatNY, and Dante, and Boomer, plus the old RDR guys are all regular people who are socially normal. And probably others I'm forgetting. Dallas has a WF here and a Trib there, and others, which I think is to be expected for anywhere. If you want to make a generalization, you could say pickup guys are weird.
For me, I compare it to Tennis. If you totally suck, then it's not enjoyable. You try, and it's just a miserable experience, and you can slog through it and just get better on your own, or you can take lessons and improve much faster. It is entirely possible to get to the same level without lessons, but it requires more effort and more time, and the likelihood of quitting is higher. But once you're off the ground, then you learn based on how much you play. Lessons do not help nearly as much. It's all about getting the experience, which requires playing. I think from the perspective of someone in this position it's easy to forget how difficult and unpleasant it is for people starting out.
If a guy has been unsuccessful, telling them to just suck it up and go out and do it may or may not be helpful, depending on what his problem is. If he's a kj who just theorizes and speculates, then yeah, he needs to be pushed to act. But if someone keeps trying and keeps failing in the same way for the same reason, saying to just not be a pussy is unhelpful.
Especially for new guys, there are usually some things that are relatively easy to fix, like hygiene, or body language, or something like that. Enough to get them off the ground and into the zone where they can learn from their own experience. I don't think anyone anywhere expects to have hand-holding throughout the entire process, but some stuff at the start, and after that, once in a while addressing specific issues along the way.
- Guest
by Guest » Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:00 pm
[quote1248119810=Pylon8]
Addison has taught you everything it has to teach you, and it's not the hot-chick mine that people say it once was. Dallas is a flighty town that has moved on, and you should, too. Burn it. Burn it, and don't look back.
[/quote1248119810]
Agree with that statement about Addison these days (for the most part). Uptown, Greenville, Knox, etc. are better, however for the 9+ hotties look Downtown. Dallas is a socialite city. Value matters.
9+ may be had occasionally in Black Finn, but you are looking at 2-5 total girls in the venue as opposed to say 25+ in the best clubs, upscale lounges and after parties.. Got coke? ;)
Addison has taught you everything it has to teach you, and it's not the hot-chick mine that people say it once was. Dallas is a flighty town that has moved on, and you should, too. Burn it. Burn it, and don't look back.
[/quote1248119810]
Agree with that statement about Addison these days (for the most part). Uptown, Greenville, Knox, etc. are better, however for the 9+ hotties look Downtown. Dallas is a socialite city. Value matters.
9+ may be had occasionally in Black Finn, but you are looking at 2-5 total girls in the venue as opposed to say 25+ in the best clubs, upscale lounges and after parties.. Got coke? ;)
- Guest
by Guest » Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:59 pm
[quote1248126403=Vector]The other thing is I don't agree that Austin guys are weird. Sure, there is one individual we both know has a lot to learn, but I have met a bunch of guys down there and the ones I've met are well-adjusted and normal. TheGoatNY, and Dante, and Boomer, plus the old RDR guys are all regular people who are socially normal. And probably others I'm forgetting. Dallas has a WF here and a Trib there, and others, which I think is to be expected for anywhere. If you want to make a generalization, you could say pickup guys are weird.[/quote1248126403]
That's fair, but I think you may misunderstood my usage of weird. I don't mean inadequate socially, I just mean that they look at PUA in a very traditional manner. Eat, sleep, breathe PUA you know? The Dallas guys aren't quite as interested in material and the 'sarging lifestyle' you know?
[quote1248126403=Vector]If a guy has been unsuccessful, telling them to just suck it up and go out and do it may or may not be helpful, depending on what his problem is. If he's a kj who just theorizes and speculates, then yeah, he needs to be pushed to act. But if someone keeps trying and keeps failing in the same way for the same reason, saying to just not be a pussy is unhelpful.
Especially for new guys, there are usually some things that are relatively easy to fix, like hygiene, or body language, or something like that. Enough to get them off the ground and into the zone where they can learn from their own experience. I don't think anyone anywhere expects to have hand-holding throughout the entire process, but some stuff at the start, and after that, once in a while addressing specific issues along the way.[/quote1248126403]
I can agree with most of this. BUT, if he keeps failing, then shouldn't he be trying different tactics in order to get over the hump? And, I just find it really, really hard to believe that there are guys out there that could actually continue to crash and burn at this on a regular basis. PC has said it before, PU is, in many ways, just a numbers game. I see things the same way. So, how do you win at a numbers game? Keep trying, keep playing.
And, if a guy just cannot pull it together, for whatever reason, then that's when they need to seek out a bootcamp or professional coaching. A Community like ours is not going to be able to change the deep seeded shit, that bag is on the individual not the community. The community can, and will be helpful, but we are going to be giving him a tune up, not overhauling the engine.
That's fair, but I think you may misunderstood my usage of weird. I don't mean inadequate socially, I just mean that they look at PUA in a very traditional manner. Eat, sleep, breathe PUA you know? The Dallas guys aren't quite as interested in material and the 'sarging lifestyle' you know?
[quote1248126403=Vector]If a guy has been unsuccessful, telling them to just suck it up and go out and do it may or may not be helpful, depending on what his problem is. If he's a kj who just theorizes and speculates, then yeah, he needs to be pushed to act. But if someone keeps trying and keeps failing in the same way for the same reason, saying to just not be a pussy is unhelpful.
Especially for new guys, there are usually some things that are relatively easy to fix, like hygiene, or body language, or something like that. Enough to get them off the ground and into the zone where they can learn from their own experience. I don't think anyone anywhere expects to have hand-holding throughout the entire process, but some stuff at the start, and after that, once in a while addressing specific issues along the way.[/quote1248126403]
I can agree with most of this. BUT, if he keeps failing, then shouldn't he be trying different tactics in order to get over the hump? And, I just find it really, really hard to believe that there are guys out there that could actually continue to crash and burn at this on a regular basis. PC has said it before, PU is, in many ways, just a numbers game. I see things the same way. So, how do you win at a numbers game? Keep trying, keep playing.
And, if a guy just cannot pull it together, for whatever reason, then that's when they need to seek out a bootcamp or professional coaching. A Community like ours is not going to be able to change the deep seeded shit, that bag is on the individual not the community. The community can, and will be helpful, but we are going to be giving him a tune up, not overhauling the engine.
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