Ah, you like me, love cheese.

[Guest]

[quote1235071330=Bull Run]
I guess what I'm saying is that it's impossible to score unless you know how to block and tackle. Learn the basics, forget the rest. It's marginal at best and, in my opinion and experience (which has been supported by several other experienced guys), it mucks up the interaction because you become analytical. As such, it slows down the interaction or makes your responses awkward...it ruins the flow of social interaction.
[/quote1235071330]
I can agree with you somewhat here. I would say that it is important to get the basics down. You need a solid foundation to build a house upon, if the foundation is not solid, then the house will eventually crumble. That is why earlier in the post I stated that I was not attempting the nlp patterns, but simply reading an intro book on it(basic nlp, not anything to do with pick up). I think we can both agree that I still have to get down the basics solidly(kino, escalation, amog, frame control, etc) before moving onto more advanced material.

I think learning will only slow down the interaction and make it too analytical if you don't practice (field experience). That is pretty much information overload and happens when you read more (way way more) than you spend in field. Brad P says you should spend about twice the amount of time in field a day as you read. But depending on your goals (how far one wants to go in being a pua, if its a guru or just finding a special someone) you can never stop learning. There is so much info that I think just keeping on the basics would rob an individual of a great wealth of information(I'm not sure if I interpreted your post wrong, but I got from it to just learn the basics and nothing after that). I know a lot of advanced guys in the community stop reading up on stuff at a certain point, but I don't understand why. Like you could learn the basics of biology and get an associates in biology, or you could get a Ph.D in biology. What is possible with the two is completely different. One gets you by on the basics, the other lets you look at things in a way you couldn't before and opens new doors for you.

Maybe I am just weird, but I love to learn something new constantly. It feels good to expand your mind and know things that others don't. This isn't just talking about nlp or even pick-up. I just love learning for some odd reason(if its interesting, no trigonometry for me).

[Guest]

[quote1235074270=Just/Us]I know a lot of advanced guys in the community stop reading up on stuff at a certain point, but I don't understand why. Like you could learn the basics of biology and get an associates in biology, or you could get a Ph.D in biology. What is possible with the two is completely different. One gets you by on the basics, the other lets you look at things in a way you couldn't before and opens new doors for you.[/quote1235074270]


I give you this task:

Speak with someone that holds an Associates Degree in Business.

Then, speak with someone that holds a B.S. in Business.

Then, speak with an MBA.

Then, speak with a PhD in Business.

I can 100% promise you that you'll think the following:

Associates -- Idiot. They don't quite get it.
B.S. -- They can recite the material but can't apply it very well because they don't really understand it.
MBA -- They understand but are not too lost in their profession as to not be able to fully articulate and communicate with 'normal' people.
PhD -- What? What did they just say? I don't get it...

I'm all for learning, but at some point you cross that line between normal people and people lost in their own worlds. If you go too far, no one will ever really get you.

The point is to not get too lost so as to forget the very, very basics of pick-up. Which, in my opinion are all you really need for success. Most people think that advanced stuff is the secret to success. This is not the truth at all. It's not the people that understand the complexities of advanced financial and economic modeling that make millions in business. It's the guy that works hard, has the fundamentals down, and executes on a simplified, yet effective, strategy. I've spent a lot of my life around the super wealthy and you know what? They're very intelligent, but they also understand that being too smart can get you burned.

Focus on blocking and tackling. Create a small, simple playbook and run it over and over and over and over. This is the best path to success in any venture.

[Guest]

I agree with a lot of what BR has said.

I however have to agree with something Just/Us has mentioned though too. He said some of the better guys stopped reading and learning. I must say I look around this group of guys and have to agree with him 100% on that.

I haven't seen a single one of us pull a dime piece. Nor have I seen any of us pull a consistent 9. Nor have a I seen a single one of us pull multiple SNL's over and over.

What does this tell me? It tells me that most of us are complacent. We get some success and then stay in that comfort zone.

I admire anyone wanting to learn everything there is in regards to pick up. But you still have to go back to the basics like BR has mentioned. You have to get some stuff down and I mean down pact. Without these essential items no matter how much you learn it will do you no good.

I also want to mention that you can get information overload. And even worse you can take in small amounts of knowledge from all these different avenues and they will be useless. You might want to consider delving into one topic a little deeper and really grasping it. Once that is accomplished you can move on to another topic.

[Guest]

[quote1235099305=playercool]
I agree with a lot of what BR has said.

I however have to agree with something Just/Us has mentioned though too. He said some of the better guys stopped reading and learning. I must say I look around this group of guys and have to agree with him 100% on that.

I haven't seen a single one of us pull a dime piece. Nor have I seen any of us pull a consistent 9. Nor have a I seen a single one of us pull multiple SNL's over and over.

What does this tell me? It tells me that most of us are complacent. We get some success and then stay in that comfort zone.

I admire anyone wanting to learn everything there is in regards to pick up. But you still have to go back to the basics like BR has mentioned. You have to get some stuff down and I mean down pact. Without these essential items no matter how much you learn it will do you no good.

I also want to mention that you can get information overload. And even worse you can take in small amounts of knowledge from all these different avenues and they will be useless. You might want to consider delving into one topic a little deeper and really grasping it. Once that is accomplished you can move on to another topic.


[/quote1235099305]

I know this is a tangent, but...

There comes the problem with the game a la, point of view from Finesse.

There is a point where a prudent investor stops investing assets into an investment because the cost to benefit ratio doesn't improve.

For instance, when you buy a house to rehab, you take into consideration how long you could potentially hold onto it, how much it's going to cost you to fix it up and so on. Coming up with a guestimate if whether or not this is going to be a worthy investment.

Now, I'm not saying there are not 10's out there that I would not like to pull, nor that I could or couldn't pull them, my problem is that I don't like dealing with alot of the crap that comes with that dime piece. I have too much going on to have to worry about whether some broad is into me. The major problem with bonafide 10's is that they must also know they are 10's. That is what being a 10 is. You are aware of the situation. Couple that to the fact that most times the bitch shield is high, and that there is most always a frame battle of sorts, and a reoccurring of "challenging of the frame" due to all the mass amounts of penis flying at her daily, means she is always measuring you up against others in her mind. She is always testing you to make sure you haven't gone soft.

Call me lazy, call me complacent, but I don't feel that all the work that goes into getting that dime is worth it right now. I don't want to have to "compete" with the other penis vying for her attention, when I want attention I want it on demand, and it is for that reason why I prefer a 7 or 8. It is not in the nature of a 10 to completely make available to me her time and body, and thus is undesirable to me. I don't want to have to keep in the back of my mind when the next battle will take place, is there a balance of masculinity vs. femininity, and just because these traits should be automatic on my part, there is still a certain amount in which remains in your conscience. You know the process now, you'll never forget it. So a certain amount, most of the time later in the relationship is when it comes into play, will remain in your mind.

The funny part though is that this behavior is the behavior in which 10's want and find attractive. It's sad though in which case that I do not want their frame battles and constant challenges. Easy come, easy go is what I want. Maybe that will change, who knows.

In conclusion, 10's while nice eye candy, do not seem to be a prudent investment of my time and energy at the present moment.

(underlying theme in this, by the way guys, is that I do not yet consider myself a 10)

As far as the basics go....

We have them, what we are trying to grasp are the more advanced concepts. The problem lies with the fact the the advanced stages are all different for each one of us. Form meets application being the advanced stage. How should you apply each skill is the question and everyone has their own answer.

[Guest]

[quote1235104922=Finesse]
I know this is a tangent, but...

There comes the problem with the game a la, point of view from Finesse.

There is a point where a prudent investor stops investing assets into an investment because the cost to benefit ratio doesn't improve.

For instance, when you buy a house to rehab, you take into consideration how long you could potentially hold onto it, how much it's going to cost you to fix it up and so on. Coming up with a guestimate if whether or not this is going to be a worthy investment.

Now, I'm not saying there are not 10's out there that I would not like to pull, nor that I could or couldn't pull them, my problem is that I don't like dealing with alot of the crap that comes with that dime piece. I have too much going on to have to worry about whether some broad is into me. The major problem with bonafide 10's is that they must also know they are 10's. That is what being a 10 is. You are aware of the situation. Couple that to the fact that most times the bitch shield is high, and that there is most always a frame battle of sorts, and a reoccurring of "challenging of the frame" due to all the mass amounts of penis flying at her daily, means she is always measuring you up against others in her mind. She is always testing you to make sure you haven't gone soft.

Call me lazy, call me complacent, but I don't feel that all the work that goes into getting that dime is worth it right now. I don't want to have to "compete" with the other penis vying for her attention, when I want attention I want it on demand, and it is for that reason why I prefer a 7 or 8. It is not in the nature of a 10 to completely make available to me her time and body, and thus is undesirable to me. I don't want to have to keep in the back of my mind when the next battle will take place, is there a balance of masculinity vs. femininity, and just because these traits should be automatic on my part, there is still a certain amount in which remains in your conscience. You know the process now, you'll never forget it. So a certain amount, most of the time later in the relationship is when it comes into play, will remain in your mind.

The funny part though is that this behavior is the behavior in which 10's want and find attractive. It's sad though in which case that I do not want their frame battles and constant challenges. Easy come, easy go is what I want. Maybe that will change, who knows.

In conclusion, 10's while nice eye candy, do not seem to be a prudent investment of my time and energy at the present moment.

(underlying theme in this, by the way guys, is that I do not yet consider myself a 10)

As far as the basics go....

We have them, what we are trying to grasp are the more advanced concepts. The problem lies with the fact the the advanced stages are all different for each one of us. Form meets application being the advanced stage. How should you apply each skill is the question and everyone has their own answer.
[/quote1235104922]











Funny you should say this.
I assume everyone here has read The Game.
Well, I recently came across a video of Katya(SP?), the girl who singlehandedly ruined Project Hollywood. It was a video of her ans Mystery making out and her getting all primped up for something and her walking around in a towel. In my eyes this girl, the girl everyone in the house was fighting over and the girl who stole the heart of argueably the most respected and talented PICK UP GURU in the community was at best an 8.
She came nowhere near 10.
I guess the lesson with what you were saying and the YouTube video is that quality women are not the most beautiful women.
I mean unless you want to talk for hours about chihuahua's(I hate this dog breed), shoes, or where your next tanning membership is going to be, being in a relationship with a perfect 10 would be a huge disappointment and nut buster.

I still think, and bet everyone would agree with me on this, it'd be fun to hump the shit out of a 10 and take a huge dump in her toilet without flushing then never talk to her again :)

[Guest]

[quote1235140972=playercool]I haven't seen a single one of us pull a dime piece. Nor have I seen any of us pull a consistent 9. Nor have a I seen a single one of us pull multiple SNL's over and over.[/quote1235140972]


And herein lies the problem.

PC, you really have a drive to be with a 10 or with a 9 over and over. That's fine, that's what you want. I, on the other hand, want to be with women that are sexually competent and exude sexuality. Alas, my frame for sexuality is completely and totally different than probably anyone in our Community.

Over time, I've learned that there are trade offs. There is no such thing as a woman that has it ALL. But, there is a woman that has everything YOU want. I have a pretty good idea of the things that attract me to women. And, I have things that are absolutes. For instance, she has to be a freak in the sheets [when I say freak I mean F-R-E-A-K, being hot, sucking cock, being into anal, and liking other girls STILL isn't enough...not even close]. This is required and I cannot compromise on this one issue. I've tried, it failed, I cheated, she cried. No more.

The problem is that I've yet to find a '10' in the traditional sense of the word that I felt would fit the criteria I have set for myself in the sack. Now, I DO believe that traditional 10s (by that I mean uber hot) that fit my sexual criteria DO exist...but, they are few and far between.

In my experience, you can TELL who these girls are just by how they dress, they way they walk, and their 'eye play.' So, I've worked hard to seek them out and I've become a whole lot more successful at finding these diamonds than I used to be. These kinds of girls are my '10s.' They may look like 6s or 7s or 8s or whatever to the outside world, but in my eyes, for what I want them for, they are 10s.

PC, I've seen you pull some hot chicks. Out of our 'class' probably some of the hottest chicks. But, I never got the impression from any of them that they could fit my criteria for freakiness. As such, they would never be considered a 10 to me...despite how hot they are on the outside.

And, Finesse has a point. Sometimes when you're out, you just want to have a good time. If you don't see any targets that you really want to engage, no self-defined 10s, then you might pass the time with a 7 or 8. They tend to be more fun anyway because you don't have to put up with their bullshit...the only problem is that 7s and 8s (and below) have expiration dates on them. You'll play with an 8 a lot longer than a 4, but eventually you'll discard them for a new, more exciting toy.

As a group, I've found that we tend to keep our self-defined 10s around a while. But again, understand that we are the ones that define what is and is not a 10. So, it's really hard to say that no one pulls one because you don't make that decision.

In the end, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And, there truly is NO accounting for taste...

[Guest]

x

[Guest]

HMMM so nlp is sleezy... but learning pick up techniques that weren't part of your existing, basic personality to get women to like you and keeping this a hidden fact isn't?

I'm with finesse... this is just a type of framing using language choice and pattern, no more no less -- you're not hypnotizing the person or something. In the end you're not going to nlp her into liking you if you're some big douchebag against her will. You might encourage her to have the kinds of positive thoughts you want her to have towards you... but I don't find it much different than a lot of the techniques commonly used.

For example, if part of what you do when you meet a women is say things to spike their emotions/buying temp... how is this really any different? You're still using a technique on someone to put them in a state of mind where their interest in you is heightened. I see zero difference.

For the record, I don't use nlp :) Just don't see the big difference between it and so many other pick up techniques that are commonly taught/used and NOT derided as sleezy.

[Guest]

[quote1235148072=JJE]HMMM so nlp is sleezy... but learning pick up techniques that weren't part of your existing, basic personality to get women to like you and keeping this a hidden fact isn't?[/quote1235148072]


Good point...but, there's a fine line in all endeavors.

[Guest]

@Playercool

I personally don't have the need to pull "model quality" 9's and 10's left and right. I never find any substance with'em and get bored after 1 night. When I go out with you guys I'm there to hang out with the guys and to help the newer ones...my female endeavors are handled and out of respect I don't go beyond general converation with girls when we're out...plus they're mostly from Dallas (which is too f'ing far away for me!) I can see where your point is very valid, as some follow similar paths as the one I mentioned above w/o the ltr in the works...that's bad. Now, when guys come out with us, I don't think they "stopped learning." They'll learn more out in the field (if they bother approaching) and being around a big group of confident guys. At least I think so...

@JJE

The pickup techniques you are comparing to the NLP techniques are (in my mind) newbie practices/challenges. The lesson I see in every normal pickup technique essentially changes the user...NLP techniques affect the target.