Dallas PUA
The Pickup Artist Playground
A question for the pua's who got through it
33 posts
• Page 4 of 4 • 1, 2, 3, 4
by Guest » Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:52 pm
Neuro, getting over #1 on that list is easy. All you gotta do is go out and do a few approaches and realize that the girls are not going to bite you, slap you, whatever horrible thing you imagine. I used to be that guy that got the butterflies and nerves and can't say that I've gotten them in a while... pretty much once I started opening and realized 'oh yeah... they're just women' that all went away. For me the only thing my mood has to do with is making sure I'm in a social mood. My only leftover bit of AA comes from times when i'm not supersocial and have mind blanks as far as what to talk about.. but that is almost always before going in, not once I get in the set. the worst thing that's ever happened to me opening a set is the girl walking off -- used to be maybe I would be afraid of that but my ego is capable of handling it now haha. Plenty of other women, some of whom hopefully won't be so stuck up and disqualify themselves :)
- Guest
by Guest » Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:16 pm
[quote1230941083=Bull Run]
To say there's one way is wrong. If that's what you guys think I'm saying then I apologize for not articulating my message better.
I believe that watching others, while they're in big grops, in action is of very little value. Watching guys at different levels of skill and experience can be helpful but is still hard to internalize because you have to translate what you see them doing into principles that you can understand. The problem occurs in the translation, how do you translate principles you don't understand into ones you do?
So, you might ask why coaches are effective. It's simple really. They make you accountable, they kick you in the ass, and they tell you what to do. They give you structure. If you need that, then fine. Go for it. But, keep in mind that all they're doing is what I've been saying...which is basically that you have to quit being a pussy and just go do it.
I think one of the biggest distortions in the Community is that once you enter and you do the things you're supposed to do, then you should somehow become this amazing Casanova. This simply is not the case. We all are bounded by our respective realities. I posted something about sports the other day and the parallels to the Game. One more point to understand is that we're all bounded by our innate skill level. There are some things that simply will not change. You will probably not get any smarter or funnier or be able to run faster or jump higher or whatever. At some point, you simply reach your potential regardless of how hard you work or how much you want it. The great thing is that very few of us, myself included, can definitively say that I'm fully self-actualized. This is why you keep working and pushing. But, understand that you are here to be the best you that you can become.
I think it's better to surround yourself with a small group (read 2 - 3) of guys that are pretty much in the same place as you. Go out with them, and on your own. Keep reading, but don't make it obsessive. I think this type of structure will give you everything you need: 1) it gives you a group of guys that hold you accountable and that you grow with and have fun with, a support system 2) going on your own gives you an opportunity to find out who you really are without the support of your crew, this is when you begin to understand your assets and liablities 3) continuing to read will allow you to find those areas in your life when you got bad advice, just as Vector alluded to earlier.
What I'm really saying is that there is only one TopDog, Bull Run, grimm, playercool, Pictureperfect, Lion, Vector, etc. There is only one Gunner, Acuity, or JJE. I can't really teach you anything about yourself by allowing you to watch me, or anyone else, run a set. I can teach you about my Game, my personality, and what works for me. But, I'm of little to no use to you when it comes to helping your Game. Sure, people have impacted my Game and I've done the same for them. And yes, at some level, I could be helpful (and vice versa). But, the quicker you understand that the journey from AFC to PUA is one in which you have to haul pretty much alone the quicker you'll realize that we don't have anything to teach you that you can't learn on your own.
Finally, I'll finish on a more practical note. When I first began in the Community, I read a few books, watched a few DVDs then started hitting up bars near my house. I was virtually always alone and I got used to it. I made a ton of progress doing things this way, then I hit a plateau. At the time, I thought I should join a local lair in an effort to get better or get over the hump. Then, I started at the Dallas Meetup board. The quality and skill level there was, well, lacking. But, I found 2 regular wings. Both of which were, well, lacking. They taught me valuable lessons, but they were lessons that 1) I would have learned eventually and 2) were lessons about myself more than them teaching me tactics that worked. Then, I joined the Dallas Lair. Here, I've met a lot of great guys, guys I conisder friends. But, as I interacted with them more I noticed that my Game started changing. They were having success doing things that I never tried, so I started to incorporate some of their stuff into my Game. The result? I regressed. I actually got worse. The reason was because I was no longer running my Game, but a hodgepodge of the Game that worked for other people. So, I had to try to find that mix that I had perfected before. Eventually it came back, not 100% though closer to 75%.
This is why I'm so adamant about figuring things out on your own. I believe that if it doesn't come from within, then you're going to be running Game that isn't a reflection of your inner person.
There is no formula, no right way. Maybe what you need is to hang out with a group of experienced guys. Maybe you need to find a small group of wings that are at or near your skill level and run with them exclusively. Maybe you need to run Game on your own and check in with the Lair once a month. I don't know.
Just keep in mind that you are the only one that can turn you into the best you possible. I'm a huge believer in ownership. You own how you feel about others, even if they don't reciprocate (sp?), you own how you interrpret what people say and do. You own your successes and failures. You own your Game. If you've run into a plateau, I'm sure it's because you're still doing the same things you've always done. You is a fluid concept. Sometimes you have change what you're doing. Watching other guys work isn't going to be nearly as helpful as you might think. Instead, it's going to cause you to mimic their successes and avoid their failures. When, maybe just maybe the technique they used to succeed would fail with you and the one that they failed with would work for you.
You'd be amazed how many answers you have, if you'd just ask yourself the right questions.
Having said all of that, I'm done with this topic for a while. I'll read it but I'm not sure I can articulate my message any further. Keep in mind, that I've said all I have precisely because I believe in each and everyone's abilities in the Dallas Community. Even if we've never met or if we don't get along, I still believe that you've got all the tools you need to put it all together.
See you in the scene.
[/quote1230941083]
Bull Run -
I have to give you credit because you are spot on with this post. We may have had our differences in the past however I know you understand what is going on here because, it seems, you worked to get there youself. Just as I did and continue to do. The only way. Respect mate.
Something of side I want to point out .. -
Never take example from a renoun PUA or whoever you might see out in a bar/club because you don't know that person's situation or their intentions. If you paid the guy then you can at least hope that he has your best interests at heart for that period of time. Me personally if I am introduce to someone in a bar or club I am doing my own deal for my own reasons exclusively which may or may not in line with the "PUA stamp". IMO you miss the point if you are looking at other people for more than just situational stuff. Bull Run hits the nail on the head.
If you want to be coached by someone you better find more than a weekend bootcamp. It takes months or years to internalize this to the point where you can execute consistently. Sure it is nice for someone to guide the light but not at all necessary..
To say there's one way is wrong. If that's what you guys think I'm saying then I apologize for not articulating my message better.
I believe that watching others, while they're in big grops, in action is of very little value. Watching guys at different levels of skill and experience can be helpful but is still hard to internalize because you have to translate what you see them doing into principles that you can understand. The problem occurs in the translation, how do you translate principles you don't understand into ones you do?
So, you might ask why coaches are effective. It's simple really. They make you accountable, they kick you in the ass, and they tell you what to do. They give you structure. If you need that, then fine. Go for it. But, keep in mind that all they're doing is what I've been saying...which is basically that you have to quit being a pussy and just go do it.
I think one of the biggest distortions in the Community is that once you enter and you do the things you're supposed to do, then you should somehow become this amazing Casanova. This simply is not the case. We all are bounded by our respective realities. I posted something about sports the other day and the parallels to the Game. One more point to understand is that we're all bounded by our innate skill level. There are some things that simply will not change. You will probably not get any smarter or funnier or be able to run faster or jump higher or whatever. At some point, you simply reach your potential regardless of how hard you work or how much you want it. The great thing is that very few of us, myself included, can definitively say that I'm fully self-actualized. This is why you keep working and pushing. But, understand that you are here to be the best you that you can become.
I think it's better to surround yourself with a small group (read 2 - 3) of guys that are pretty much in the same place as you. Go out with them, and on your own. Keep reading, but don't make it obsessive. I think this type of structure will give you everything you need: 1) it gives you a group of guys that hold you accountable and that you grow with and have fun with, a support system 2) going on your own gives you an opportunity to find out who you really are without the support of your crew, this is when you begin to understand your assets and liablities 3) continuing to read will allow you to find those areas in your life when you got bad advice, just as Vector alluded to earlier.
What I'm really saying is that there is only one TopDog, Bull Run, grimm, playercool, Pictureperfect, Lion, Vector, etc. There is only one Gunner, Acuity, or JJE. I can't really teach you anything about yourself by allowing you to watch me, or anyone else, run a set. I can teach you about my Game, my personality, and what works for me. But, I'm of little to no use to you when it comes to helping your Game. Sure, people have impacted my Game and I've done the same for them. And yes, at some level, I could be helpful (and vice versa). But, the quicker you understand that the journey from AFC to PUA is one in which you have to haul pretty much alone the quicker you'll realize that we don't have anything to teach you that you can't learn on your own.
Finally, I'll finish on a more practical note. When I first began in the Community, I read a few books, watched a few DVDs then started hitting up bars near my house. I was virtually always alone and I got used to it. I made a ton of progress doing things this way, then I hit a plateau. At the time, I thought I should join a local lair in an effort to get better or get over the hump. Then, I started at the Dallas Meetup board. The quality and skill level there was, well, lacking. But, I found 2 regular wings. Both of which were, well, lacking. They taught me valuable lessons, but they were lessons that 1) I would have learned eventually and 2) were lessons about myself more than them teaching me tactics that worked. Then, I joined the Dallas Lair. Here, I've met a lot of great guys, guys I conisder friends. But, as I interacted with them more I noticed that my Game started changing. They were having success doing things that I never tried, so I started to incorporate some of their stuff into my Game. The result? I regressed. I actually got worse. The reason was because I was no longer running my Game, but a hodgepodge of the Game that worked for other people. So, I had to try to find that mix that I had perfected before. Eventually it came back, not 100% though closer to 75%.
This is why I'm so adamant about figuring things out on your own. I believe that if it doesn't come from within, then you're going to be running Game that isn't a reflection of your inner person.
There is no formula, no right way. Maybe what you need is to hang out with a group of experienced guys. Maybe you need to find a small group of wings that are at or near your skill level and run with them exclusively. Maybe you need to run Game on your own and check in with the Lair once a month. I don't know.
Just keep in mind that you are the only one that can turn you into the best you possible. I'm a huge believer in ownership. You own how you feel about others, even if they don't reciprocate (sp?), you own how you interrpret what people say and do. You own your successes and failures. You own your Game. If you've run into a plateau, I'm sure it's because you're still doing the same things you've always done. You is a fluid concept. Sometimes you have change what you're doing. Watching other guys work isn't going to be nearly as helpful as you might think. Instead, it's going to cause you to mimic their successes and avoid their failures. When, maybe just maybe the technique they used to succeed would fail with you and the one that they failed with would work for you.
You'd be amazed how many answers you have, if you'd just ask yourself the right questions.
Having said all of that, I'm done with this topic for a while. I'll read it but I'm not sure I can articulate my message any further. Keep in mind, that I've said all I have precisely because I believe in each and everyone's abilities in the Dallas Community. Even if we've never met or if we don't get along, I still believe that you've got all the tools you need to put it all together.
See you in the scene.
[/quote1230941083]
Bull Run -
I have to give you credit because you are spot on with this post. We may have had our differences in the past however I know you understand what is going on here because, it seems, you worked to get there youself. Just as I did and continue to do. The only way. Respect mate.
Something of side I want to point out .. -
Never take example from a renoun PUA or whoever you might see out in a bar/club because you don't know that person's situation or their intentions. If you paid the guy then you can at least hope that he has your best interests at heart for that period of time. Me personally if I am introduce to someone in a bar or club I am doing my own deal for my own reasons exclusively which may or may not in line with the "PUA stamp". IMO you miss the point if you are looking at other people for more than just situational stuff. Bull Run hits the nail on the head.
If you want to be coached by someone you better find more than a weekend bootcamp. It takes months or years to internalize this to the point where you can execute consistently. Sure it is nice for someone to guide the light but not at all necessary..
- Guest
by Guest » Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:13 pm
Here's my growth story, summed up.
I started out my PUA life having read basically everything under the sun - because it appealed to some logical side of me that pickup could be broken down into an exact science, and that there were people out there who had it figured out and were willing to sell their trade.
My first wing was a guy named Kit, who was 40+. Although I wasn't that good, I was having more success than he was and so I spent a lot of time teaching him what to say, etc. Even though much of what i taught looking back was bullshit, I think the act of teaching someone else helped me grow. This was when I met Top Dog, Murad, Cheese, Taj and so on, and we are still tight to this day.
Probably the biggest leap I had in my game was a couple months in...I started winging with a guy named Webhand who never posted on these boards. He and I would literally go out 4 to 5 nights a week, trying everything. At some point gradually I figured out that all the canned mystery stuff i had read is really not working for me as well as just being real, feeling out the situation, and escalating when the time is right. That was just trial and error. Once again, I was probably a little bit more lucky than he was, and this was the time when I really started to pull ass and developed my ability to hold a set for hours and to nail down the art of the day 2 to near perfection. But the cool thing about webhand was he was completely non-weird. I don't think he ever pissed off or wierded out a girl or got me blown out of a set even one time. So even though he didn't have the level of success he was looking for (and hopefully he has now found), he made a great wingman and the situation was a great springboard for me to pack in a ton of experience in a short time and build the foundation for the man i am and the one i'm becomming. This was also the period in time when i did the most day game and learned quite a bit there about how different most girls are during the day.
Webhand moved to New York, and at some point in the transition I started hanging out with Bull Run a lot I think because as I got more experience I started to see a ton of wisdom in his posts that would have been lost to me only months before. Through Bull Run I met guys like Playercool and Lion and Vector and so forth and started hanging out with them around pickup time.
Actually I can disagree with Bull Run a bit and say that I've learned quite a bit from these guys just from being around them. Not on purpose, but I can say with confidence that the fun, positive attitude these guys have toward the game definately rubbed off on me and had a positive effect on my game.
I think what I learned from these guys if i had to sum it up is humor, confidence, body language and an attitude of going out to have a blast.
Now, I have moved to Denver and so it's time for another evolution. Like it or not, I am now doing a lot of things by myself and adding even more bricks to the house that is peter.
(Yes, i am a brick...house)
I have a small following of guys out there, but i am giving more than i am taking. as for growth I am doing that on my own. I am going out on my own. Denver has a lot of opportunity for day game, so I am doing quite a bit of that again.
We'll see how it goes. I guess the point is that everyone's journey is different, but remember that there is more than one answer and often it takes several different experiences...it takes learning the same lesson several different ways, in order to really get the change and growth that you are looking for.
At least that's how it was with me.
I started out my PUA life having read basically everything under the sun - because it appealed to some logical side of me that pickup could be broken down into an exact science, and that there were people out there who had it figured out and were willing to sell their trade.
My first wing was a guy named Kit, who was 40+. Although I wasn't that good, I was having more success than he was and so I spent a lot of time teaching him what to say, etc. Even though much of what i taught looking back was bullshit, I think the act of teaching someone else helped me grow. This was when I met Top Dog, Murad, Cheese, Taj and so on, and we are still tight to this day.
Probably the biggest leap I had in my game was a couple months in...I started winging with a guy named Webhand who never posted on these boards. He and I would literally go out 4 to 5 nights a week, trying everything. At some point gradually I figured out that all the canned mystery stuff i had read is really not working for me as well as just being real, feeling out the situation, and escalating when the time is right. That was just trial and error. Once again, I was probably a little bit more lucky than he was, and this was the time when I really started to pull ass and developed my ability to hold a set for hours and to nail down the art of the day 2 to near perfection. But the cool thing about webhand was he was completely non-weird. I don't think he ever pissed off or wierded out a girl or got me blown out of a set even one time. So even though he didn't have the level of success he was looking for (and hopefully he has now found), he made a great wingman and the situation was a great springboard for me to pack in a ton of experience in a short time and build the foundation for the man i am and the one i'm becomming. This was also the period in time when i did the most day game and learned quite a bit there about how different most girls are during the day.
Webhand moved to New York, and at some point in the transition I started hanging out with Bull Run a lot I think because as I got more experience I started to see a ton of wisdom in his posts that would have been lost to me only months before. Through Bull Run I met guys like Playercool and Lion and Vector and so forth and started hanging out with them around pickup time.
Actually I can disagree with Bull Run a bit and say that I've learned quite a bit from these guys just from being around them. Not on purpose, but I can say with confidence that the fun, positive attitude these guys have toward the game definately rubbed off on me and had a positive effect on my game.
I think what I learned from these guys if i had to sum it up is humor, confidence, body language and an attitude of going out to have a blast.
Now, I have moved to Denver and so it's time for another evolution. Like it or not, I am now doing a lot of things by myself and adding even more bricks to the house that is peter.
(Yes, i am a brick...house)
I have a small following of guys out there, but i am giving more than i am taking. as for growth I am doing that on my own. I am going out on my own. Denver has a lot of opportunity for day game, so I am doing quite a bit of that again.
We'll see how it goes. I guess the point is that everyone's journey is different, but remember that there is more than one answer and often it takes several different experiences...it takes learning the same lesson several different ways, in order to really get the change and growth that you are looking for.
At least that's how it was with me.
- Guest
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