Tynan on Subtext and Levels of thinking

[Guest]

I almost never cross-post stuff I find off the internet, but I thought this was really good. It's all about the subtext.

[url]http://www.betterthanyourboyfriend.com/poker-and-pickup-thinking-levels.htm[/url]

The first part of the article is about poker, which is somewhat relevant, but I think the second half stands alone pretty well:

[blockquote][ a bunch of stuff about poker... ]

One of my favorite concepts in pickup mirrors this almost exactly. It’s my favorite because when you fully understand it, EVERY interaction with ANYONE becomes a lot more interesting.

It’s the concept of subtext.

Everything anyone says has a subtext. That’s just a semi-fancy word to describe the emotion or intent behind something someone says.

For example, “Is that all the cake you want?” could have the subtext of “You aren’t eating much cake.” If it’s said in a sarcastic tone, it would mean the opposite.

“I’m sort of seeing someone right now” could mean a variety of things ranging from, “I’m about to make out with you and I want it to be your fault instead of mine.” to “I’m not in any way attracted to you.”

How do you know which it means? Body language, context, tone, timing, etc. There’s a lot to it, but once you get good at interpreting the subtext, you understand why everyone says almost anything. This is one of the main phenomena that cause people to call learning pickup “seeing the matrix”.

In my estimation there are four levels of communication, presented here in descending order of depth.

1. What you say (outgoing)
2. What she says (incoming)
3. What she means (incoming)
4. What you mean (outgoing)

To be socially savvy you want to control one and four and understand two and three. Actually, one and two are almost irrelevant.

Most GUYS only INTENTIONALLY communicate on levels one and two. I say INTENTIONALLY because everyone communicates on level four as well, but most people have little control over it. They say things and they listen to what girls say (some girls would probably tell you that they know guys who only communicate on level one).

Girls, on the other hand, almost ALWAYS communicate on levels one through three. That means that they almost always understand why you’re saying what you’re saying. This accounts for girls having wildly better social skills than us guys in general.

If you say something out of insecurity, she will know. If you’re saying it out of genuine confidence, she will also know.

A slightly exaggerated example. Imagine that Jane and Bob just went on a date and he’s dropping her off. The subtext is in parenthesis.

Jane, smiling and looking down, says, “I had a great time”. (The date went well and I hope you’ll kiss me)

Bob says, “Really? Me too. . I really like you a lot. You’re so beautiful.” (I am insecure and generally don’t do well on dates with girls of your caliber)

Jane says, “Oh, thank you. I like you too” (You just ruined it, I don’t really like you now, and I feel kind of uncomfortable)

Bob is really happy to hear that she likes him and replies, “Can I kiss you?” (I want to kiss you, but I’m too timid to just do it)

Jane says, “I don’t kiss on the first date.” (I would have kissed you, now I won’t, and I will ignore your calls)

That went terribly. The reason is twofold. First, the surface conversation is smooth, but the subtext is disjointed. They aren’t responding to the other person’s subtext properly. Second, Bob is inadvertently using his subtext to say terrible things about himself.

A better example:

Jane, smiling and looking down, says, “I had a great time”. (The date went well and I hope you’ll kiss me)

Bob replies, “I had a terrible time.” (my goal is to have fun, not to jump on the first chance to kiss you, but I’m still flirting with you)

Jane says, “You liar!” (I know you’re just joking and I like that you’re fun)

Bob takes a step closer, looks her in the eyes, and kisses her. (I’m confident and I know that you want to kiss me)

Okay, so that was a lot better. He could have just kissed her after the first line too, but I added more to illustrate it better. Notice how in this interaction the surface conversations is disjointed, but the subtext flows smoothly? The subtext is all that matters. That doesn’t mean that surface conversation SHOULD be disjointed, just that it doesn’t matter.

This is also why you can’t just learn lines and expect to be good at pickup. The lines don’t matter, the subtext does. Good pickup artists will say something with the right subtext and it will work, but then a new guy will say it with the wrong subtext (his default subtext as he’s starting out will be something like “I am scared out of my mind”), and it won’t work.

You don’t need to constantly manipulate your subtext. In general it should mesh with what you’re saying. You DO want to be AWARE of it, though. Is it responding to her subtext? If you’re 90% confident, but 10% nervous, there’s a good chance that nervousness is going to come out in the subtext. Don’t let it.

The most important thing, though, is to understand her subtext. Why is she saying what she’s saying? What is her emotional drive for it? What response does she hope to elicit? What does she really mean?

I say “she”, because our example is pickup, but the truth is that once you build the habit of tuning in to the subtext of a conversation, you will see it everywhere. [/blockquote]

[Guest]

Great post. I've always understood the dynamic between what you say and how you say it...unfortunately I've never been able to articulate it the way it's done in the post.

The funny thing is that sometimes I purposefully make my #1 and #4 incongruent. The example above highlights very well what I mean: his response, I had a terrible time but probably said with a bit of a playful undertone.

I refer to this as the No-Yes Paradox. Typically, I use it in sexual situations but it can be applied at any time. For example, if I'm with a girl and things are obviously getting sexual I'll say something along the lines of "no, we're not going to do anything...I'm not a piece of meat you know." When I say it I say it in a very calm fashion using my bedroom voice while maintaining strong eye contact and usually as I say what I'm saying I move in closer and closer to her. Saying one thing and doing another can be build massive amounts of attraction and anticipation.

Further, I think a misunderstanding of subcontext (or nonverbal cues) is something most newbies are guilty of...they don't understand that when you neg you have to have the correct body language, when you're being playful you have to have the correct nonverbal cues, etc.

Nonverbal cues and social savvy aren't really things that can be taught, outside of theory and why they're effective. It truly is something that you need to be aware of and with experience you begin to understand what's going on. This is when wings can be most effective because they can watch you from a distance and then point out when your nonverbal cues are 'correct.'

[Guest]

I thought this copy/paste fit this discussion very well so I decided to share. Its a convo between two females. I think it gives some very interesting insight into how subtle women are with their approach and what they say and actually mean! I date GirlB and she for some reason sent this to me. Girl B is very much into other girls. GirlA hit her up on myspace and wants to have sex.

Here's the start of it:

GirlA: hi..noticed you were in my area. I'm near XXXX & YYYY. New to the area.
GirlB: Hey! Yeah, I use to live in that area... I now live in a small town outside of ZZZZZ. What moved you here?
GirlA: work..but i dont start until October. Was just bored at home. Looking you know. Like really looking.
GirlB: looking for work?
GirlA: ahh no. the other kind..
GirlB: fun???
GirlA: Yes. That kind. One of those days. And Im real open. How about you?
GirlB: How do I know that I can trust you?
GirlA: Are you ...thinking what I'm thinking? Not sure. And I dont know you enough to even care. Seriously.
GirlB: maybe..