approach vs opening

[Snack]

I'm a noob at this PUA stuff, but I've been studying it quite obsessively this last week and finally got a chance to go out and get some practice. I decided to go to a mall, not only so I could find some clothing for my alpha personality, but also because I didn't feel like going to a club and essentially paying money to fail.

I immediately came across a dilemma: my openers don't feel like openers. I've tried them on a few people I know here and there and they were successful, but I feel what I'm using is more useful for leading a conversation, inserting DHVs and gaining rapport. Maybe I'm totally wrong, but these openers I read from PUAs seem more appropriate as A2 material. Here's what I have:

Jealous Girlfriend
Who's more deceptive, guys or girls? (altered "lies"; I have an interesting personal story)
Little Sister Wants a Tattoo
Is Herman a Deal-Breaker name?
Is David Bowie Hot?
Flossing

I just end up thinking "who would actually want to stand there with this complete stranger and listen to his story?" because personally, I wouldn't want to. I'd fucking hate it if some guy or girl just randomly interrupted my day to talk to me about this dumb shit (though I guess I wouldn't mind as much if it was a hot chick). It's like "why are you asking me? Don't you have any friends?" It immediately seems lame to me. It conveys a sense of neediness, like I need other people's opinions or I need someone to talk to. This girl from work instantly comes to mind; she talks to me about the stupidest shit and it has less to do with liking me and more to do with her being desperate for attention. I find myself gravitating toward situational openers like:

I like your jacket! Kinda makes you look like a lumberjack.
When you bought your jeans, did they already have holes in them?
Omg! Your socks are so colorful!
You're very little (go into story about my mom pointing out tall women to me)

I realize now that this would be commenting on their pea-cocking, which only goes to show how effective the technique is because it feels so much more comfortable. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to use their clothes as an opening for myself and then throw in my "openers" while using the right body language to move into a set. I've also been thinking of profound/absurd openers like this one:

"Are you familiar with the game? This game... we're playing a game right now. Tell me, what is the meaning of life?"

Which kinda fits my personality a bit more because I say some really weird shit. Bringing up those other "openers" out of nowhere just feels so awkward to me because I get the feeling I'm conveying way too much interest just by giving them attention. I understand I'm initially going to start off with less value (and then shift her perceived value of herself in relation to me), but how do I get her attention without appearing interested? Is the answer "if you're opening, you're going to seem interested no matter what" and "by buffering your openers with IODs, she'll let her guard down" or are these alternatives I've posted more effective?

[Tribulus1000]

Absolutely! You got the right idea on this one.

Also one thing you can use is Pacing, especially at a mall or in daygame. So just sidle up to some chick and make a comment of what she might be thinking.

This may (and I say may) buy you some time and then you can comment on her or ask her a question.

You can also go straight into something direct like "The only reason I came over here was to talk to you...I didn't want you to be that one that got away..." So now its a Lead as opposed to a Pace.

I think you're definitely onto something. Do your own thing and let the field tell you what is going to work.
If something doesn't get you excited and you're bored with "Who lies more?" or "What do you think of tattoos on girls", just do whatever comes to mind.

One exercise I do is something I call the Three Choice Technique.

Three Choice Technique
1. See girl.
2. Think: What would I say? How and where would I stand/sit/walk?
3. Imagine doing it and what would happen (this is called 'Ecology Check')
4. Repeat #2 and #3 three times.
5. Pick the best one and do it.
6. Keep doing this until you're really fast at thinking of good openers/routines.

At first you'll be slow. You'll think of it an hour later but the more you do it, the better you get at it.
If a person can do the Three Choice Technique enough, you won't need a guru because you'll be one.

I'll put this in the Techniques Area.

[Heretic]

I understand your concerns but my inclination is to say that you're second-guessing yourself a bit too much. An opener I sometimes use is "If you were a drag queen, which bathroom would you use?" I think the best of that type of openers tend to evoke strong opinions but still have enough "meat" to them to spawn a conversation. They have their own follow-up questions ("But how would you feel about having a guy in your bathroom?", "What if straight guys started taking advantage of that?" or even a deeper question about gender expectations and society).

I think it's also critically important what you said about being more willing to put up with such openers from a hot chick. They, like you, are going to be far more willing to listen if they have a positive view of what you're doing. If you're a non-threatening, friendly character with an even somewhat interesting question, they'll hear you out. But if it's obvious that you're just there to hit on them you're cooked.

I mentioned the drag queen opener because I've seen that one work like a dream and I've seen it fucking crash and burn instantly, and I know the difference was my delivery and (appearance of) sincerity. In the former case I kept a pair of adorable waitresses chatting and giggling outside their bar for a full hour after close. In the later case it was instant bitch shield ("I don't know. Why are you asking me this? Blah.")

Pulling off something in line with your own personality definitely sounds ideal long-term, but I don't think I'd eschew the standard approaches so quickly. Opening is something you want to learn front-to-back, six-ways-to-Sunday with your dick tied behind your back, so that you can do it without thinking. Wouldn't you agree? So I see it as a "learn the rules, and then transcend the rules" situation.

Also, I'm going to speculate from your post that you're a smart guy, which (IMHO) in this game is a handicap because of the great curse of over-thinking. You'll pick at yourself with these questions of "why would she want to hear that?" and "what reason would she have to be interested in this?". The truth of the matter is that if you have the right body language and tone the exact words aren't even that critical. Hell, at some (low) level of consciousness she might even know she's being opened and she's totally cool with that.

The way I see it, approach is about not being rejected. Which, in turn, is about not being an obvious loser / AFC. You don't have to win her over with the most interesting topic ever, you just have to enter her world. Now that you've avoided the laser turrets and landmines you can have an actual human conversation (what a concept).

[Dubb]

I feel exactly the same way about openers Snack. I think people get stuck on that idea that you have to say something complex or funny or whatever to get a conversation going. I know I'm included in that if I get busy or have excuses for not going out and being around a lot of people for a while, I start to over-analyze and think about approaches rather than just getting it over with.

I was into PUA stuff a ton, and it definitely works well, but you honestly don't need to memorize anything to make it work. "Hi" and a smile work just as well as "OMG DID YOU SEE THOSE GIRLS FIGHTING?" You can then move on to something actually interesting rather than having to talk about the fight that didn't actually happen. I think Heretic and Tribulus are completely right, it's not really about WHAT you say but HOW you say it.

I'd still consider myself new to the game as far as practicing techniques and tactics, but that's not really my personality anyway. I'd say just open with whatever you're honestly thinking of, that way you don't have to worry about it being sincere...and if you get straight rejected, fuck her (not literally) and move on to someone who isn't as uptight.

[Heretic]

I like what Dubb said. I'm also not a big practiced-material guy, so I think we're all seeing eye to eye.

So I think the synthesis of all of our comments is: know what you need to know to open at will. If you're a natural and you've always got interesting content on your mind, by all means go with that. But if ever find yourself struggling for the right words or second-guessing then have at least a couple trusted lines in reserve. When you deliver them, be confident and non-imposing and you'll own it.

[RockStar]

it just doesn't matter what you open with. It's about what you do with the attention after you have it. open with a dirty joke. open with hi. it really just doesn't matter. talk to girls! that's why they put on $300 dollar dresses and spent an hour on their make up. she has already given away her hand..."she wants to be approached."

-Rockstar

oh and use the "craigslist penis effect" to your advantage.

[Snack]

Thanks guys. I actually agree with all of you.

I've made some slight progress and some realizations, but I'm still stuck in the beginning phases. It really doesn't matter what you say when you open; what's important is body language, tonality and all of that (i.e. how you say it). This is why I can see the "Drag Queen" opener working well, just as I can see it totally bombing. The same has happened to my own opener "Do you think mustaches are attractive", which I've found is not very solid. Haha girls either respond neutrally, feel confused or get grossed out. I've attached a DHV story to it, but I find myself being reluctant to go into it.. and taking too long loses their interest.

I'm sure I need to work on my body language and such, but I feel my biggest problem stems from the fact that I just don't know what to talk about. I've tapped into my extroverted side before, understanding that it's actually easier to talk to strangers because you can talk about anything and everything, but I'm not always in that mood. In fact, I'm usually quite introverted and socially apathetic. I don't understand how people can interact with each other sometimes.

I find that I enjoy being genuine and honest, but it seems we're suppose to play the game. I'm gonna try talking to girls about whatever I'm interested in at the moment (even if it seems boring or counter-productive) and see how well the conversation holds.

[Country Star]

What you're saying makes sense to me. I'm new to the game as well and in my particular case, I'm fighting a lot of anxiety. I've only tried canned opinion openers so far, and sets have opened, but telling bullshit stories adds this layer of worry about getting found out. On the flip side, these things have been designed to get attention and lead naturally to conversation. I've been ejecting as soon as the opener has run its course, but when reflecting on these experiences I've realized that in their responses, and in their body language, they have given me a lot information I can use to my advantage. Like accusing her of hitting on me because she is checking me out while I'm genuinely just trying to get an opinion to help a friend. I think, based on only a small amount of feedback from the field, that if I give a plausible reason for the question or story and make it seem spontaneous enough, it will work. Major contingencies. Spontaneity is especially hard for me. And if it does in fact spawn different conversation topics, I get to save my bullets for the time being and use them to extend conversations instead of kick starting them. Plus I can work them in more naturally. Just my two cents.

[RockStar]

Maybe I'm totally wrong, but these openers I read from PUAs seem more appropriate as A2 material. Here's what I have:

Jealous Girlfriend
Who's more deceptive, guys or girls? (altered "lies"; I have an interesting personal story)
Little Sister Wants a Tattoo
Is Herman a Deal-Breaker name?
Is David Bowie Hot?
Flossing

Hey snack,
i'd just like to interject a quick point here about this. you're right these are not the openers and they are A2 material. the opener is actually "hey quick question" then there is a time constraint "I've got to get back to my friends in a sec." you could also show this with body language.
then the "routine" is something designed to create conversation and attraction.

Rockstar

[XZero]

First off, yes, it is possible to approach without giving an indicator of interest. One good warmup tactic if you're just getting into things is to start conversation with the males in the group first. The advantages are numerous. First, its natural for guys to start random conversations with other guys. By doing so, you avoid telegraphing interest: your focus is on the men of the group and not the ladies. Second, its easier for a newbie to do. By approaching the guys, you don't have to worry about approach anxiety. Finally, you can establish a higher social value by quickly gaining the respect of the AMOG.

Once you've opened with the men, its a given that the females in the group will want to participate sooner or later. What you do at that point is situation dependent. Gauge their ego: If their ego and confidence is high, you should neg. Otherwise, give a polite and neutral response before quickly re-engaging with the males. Your objective is to make them work their way into the conversation and onto your social radar. This part achieves many of the goals in the Myster Method: you imply a higher social value, avoid neediness, and making them work for it plays to the "cat-string" theory".


As to what to open: Its more difficult than using canned material, but I prefer situational, fill in the blank openers. I have several generic openers that I use, but the specific questions asked or comments made are dependent on my surroundings. For example, I was able to open a set at Starbucks by using those "permanent" plastic cups (the ones that look like the disposable ones), and asking the people in the group behind me why anyone would even bother buying them.