how to handle the darkness

[Vicious]

how do you get rid of that lingering animosity?

it wasnt too long ago that i didnt get any play off of ANY girls anywhere. and after a few years in the gym they just come up to me now and start feeling me up and talk me up, and in my head im like, "a few years back you wouldnt give me the time of day, where were you?".

i think we've all experienced a bit of this or something close to it, especially the really hard case guys. how do i keep that from cropping up and stay fun instead of just feeling sick with this game we play?

[Westfall]

how do you get rid of that lingering animosity?

it wasnt too long ago that i didnt get any play off of ANY girls anywhere. and after a few years in the gym they just come up to me now and start feeling me up and talk me up, and in my head im like, "a few years back you wouldnt give me the time of day, where were you?".

i think we've all experienced a bit of this or something close to it, especially the really hard case guys. how do i keep that from cropping up and stay fun instead of just feeling sick with this game we play?

Damn, I can totally empathize with you. I used to be a fat ass, and girls were quite cruel to me...One even told me, when I asked her on a date, that she was planning to be sick that day. I hated women for awhile but understanding them has disolved a lot of that. I still dispise girls that are, IMO, vile bitches, but there are a lot of really sweet girls...maybe they're 7s and as such have developed kind personalites out of neccesity (there are some 9s & 10s who have pleasing personalities as well)...

In short, focus on kind loving girls that have qualities you admire for relationships and fuck the ones that have nothing to offer but their looks...litterally or figuratively

Westfall

[Bull Run]

I've experienced the same thing in my life. A few years ago, I lost over 90 pounds. Despite my weight I was still able to pull girls, just not the quality girls. Quality girls would actually laugh at me if I asked them out, literally I've had a girl laugh in my face and ask me why someone like her would ever go out with someone like me. I still cringe when I see others get treated that way, it truly sucks.

After losing the weight and putting some solid muscle on my frame I get treated much the same way you do. Sprinkle in a little bit of game and I feel I'm treated like a king relative to how I used to be treated. But, no matter how cool the girl, laid-back, down to earth, accepting, etc. she seems to be I always have this question lurking in the back of my head:

"If I was still overweight would she have even given me a chance?"

Usually I suspect the answer is no, especially when they compliment me on my looks (sure it's nice to hear but there's more to me than that). It's been over 3 years and I'm still struggling with this, I suspect I always will. Now that I'm in the community I struggle with it a little bit more mainly because I think to myself if I didn't say what I did and was still overweight I know I'd have no shot. I've asked many of my girlfriends and closes the question of whether they would have given me a chance if I were still overweight, I've heard 'no' more times than I care to count. Many women are just as vain as men.

On the one hand, this knowledge and experience has helped me to understand that I am better than a lot of these women. It helps me rise above it all and to not be bothered by rejection. On the other hand, I feel slightly jaded and it acts as an obstacle to granting women, that deserve it, respect.

The key is to not take it out on women. It's human nature. The best way to think about it is to ask yourself a similar question:

"If a heavy chick came up to you and asked you out, what would you do?"

Truth be told you would probably turn her down. I know I would. Sure, I'd be nice about it but I know I would. I worked too hard to get to this point to turn around and pull someone that is the epitome of what I used to hate about myself. Once you frame it that way, you begin to realize that it's nothing personal and therefore shouldn't be internalized.

[Alphagame]

The thing about being a sexy guy is, well, it's pretty short lived. Working out in the gym and eating right isn't something anyone wants to do. In order to get your ass into the gym and eat right, you need motivation. For most guys, the only way to sustain that kind of motivation is through constant rejection from women, imo.

At least, that's the way it works for me.

And think about it this way: How many married men work out consistently in the gym, eat right, maintain a really sexy body, with clean shaven chests, fresh haircuts, sexy & stylish clothes, tanning salons, etc. Almost none of them.

The reason is because as soon as you get a steady girlfriend, who in their right mind still wants to do that shit? It's expensive, time consuming and it's a chore that only insane people would voluntarily subject themselves to.

Look at all the gym rats who've been working out for long periods of time. I've been working out for 8 solid months now at the same gym. I can tell you, I see a ton of new faces, but from 8 months ago, I'm only seeing a handful of familiar faces. These regulars seem pretty intraverted and I seldom see them chatting anyone up. Basically, my assumption is, they're single or nuts and they don't have any game, which, ultimately, is the thing that keeps them single. They're working out daily in the hopes that eventually some woman will throw herself at them. Eventually, it'll happen and shortly thereafter, I'll never see them in the gym again. As for the number of guys who were working out when i started 8 months ago, have women throw themselves at them, and they're basically a gamer, I honestly wouldn't suspect that of any of them. My read of them is that they're all starving for ANY female attention.

Yes, I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. I was looking at some pictures of me when I was 25. At 25, I was a good looking guy. But comparing the current me to the 25 year old of 13 years ago, there's no comparison. I'm MUCH better looking at 38 than I was at 25. Never thought I'd say that. But it's completely true.

So, basically, I've gone through life to this point being a normal slightly overweight out of shape white guy who would routinely go 3 to 5 months between hair cuts. I'm so unused to these eyes from women, honestly, it freaks me out sometimes. I still don't EXPECT women to act this way with me. Hopefully, someday soon, I'll internalize this feeling of being sexy and it'll be more easily portrayed to women that I truly believe, deep down inside, that I really am the prize. As of right now, deep down inside, I still believe I'm just that normal out of shape white guy that women never noticed. No doubt about it, this is a HUGE adjustment in your thought process. And, like I said earlier, most guys, when they get this point, allow themselves to be tied down into an exclusive LTR and quickly become what I was for the last 15 years...a normal run of the mill guy who doesn't waste time doing things that sexy men do. In my opinion, that's the ONLY thing that separates me from being able to eventually treat the local bar as my own free whore-house. I MUST avoid the LTR at all costs.

[Bull Run]

The thing about being a sexy guy is, well, it's pretty short lived. Working out in the gym and eating right isn't something anyone wants to do. In order to get your ass into the gym and eat right, you need motivation. For most guys, the only way to sustain that kind of motivation is through constant rejection from women, imo.

At least, that's the way it works for me.

And think about it this way: How many married men work out consistently in the gym, eat right, maintain a really sexy body, with clean shaven chests, fresh haircuts, sexy & stylish clothes, tanning salons, etc. Almost none of them.

I agree with you 100%. But, sometimes along the way you internalize this type of lifestyle. It becomes a part of you. I've been regularly going to the gym for over 3 years now (I doubt I've ever had a week in which I didn't go at least 3 times, even when I was sick). During this period of time I've had 3 LTRs and at the end of each relationship looked better on the way out than I did going in. I think this lifestyle is sustainable as long as you're trying to look good because you want to look good for you, not because you want to look good for someone else.

You are right though. Most of the people in the gym are single. If I weren't there to actually work out, I'd be more inclined to run game on them. I have in the past and it's somewhat effective, but only if you're gym is one of those seen and be seen types of places. I unfortunately go where the gym rats go and, as such, pretty much keep to myself.

[MagicBalls]

What WF said.

That anger and frustration will show and get the best of you. Just remember that women are human beings, like you, except with a pussy.

[dubya]

There is a novel by Barbara Kingslover, Poisonwood Bible. One of the characters is a girl named Ada who was told as a child that she would never walk correctly. She had to drag her foot and walk hunched over. She was like this until someone in college showed her that she had been lied to her whole life and that she could relearn how to move. She worked on it until she could move and walk like a normal person. Guys began to notice her and ask her out but she wouldn't date any of them because "anyone who accepted her as she was now was a traitor to who she was then..."

I've thought about this story a lot believing that there is a fundamental truth in it. Something that I could identify with. Except I now at the moment think that it's fundamental bullshit.

People can only like you or not like you for who you are in the moment they meet you. If you were a fat ass ten years ago and they meet you today and fell in love with you, it isn't fair to hold it against them that they might not have loved you way back then. You are who you are, here and now. The first person who turned traitor on the old Ada was Ada herself. If she had not there would not have been a new one.

If thats a little too complicated to think through it is my fault.

I like the way Bull Run said it,

I worked too hard to get to this point to turn around and pull someone that is the epitome of what I used to hate about myself. Once you frame it that way, you begin to realize that it's nothing personal and therefore shouldn't be internalized.

Lately every time I see someone who is morbidly obese the first think I think is "there is a person who hates themselves." I don't like to think this way but more and more I believe it. It is self pity, self doubt and self hate that keeps a person from changing his life. That is the same no matter if its learning how to talk to a woman or learning how to get your body into shape.

Excuse my digression. If you found the courage and the willpower to change, to strengthen and develop your body, own it. Be proud of it. Enjoy the fruits of your labor. If more people gravitate toward you because of it, that is a good thing. It is a bonus. Why hold it against a girl who wants you because you moved up from a 7 to a 10?

[zine]

If you are unhappy with your current situation, change it. Else accept it. I've seen plenty of fat guys who have chosen to accept it, and get tons of chicks. Don't make outside excuses for what happens to you. I really think all of you are cool enough that the fat thing wouldn't even be an issue. People react to you in the way that you let them. If you decide to change the most effective way I've found is to not "force" yourself into it, but to first imagine yourself as being what you want to be right now. Focus not on forcing yourself, but instead on changing your self image because that, is where the problem lies.

[El Fenix]

I feel the same way sometimes too. You dont see the cool, social, desirable, person who you've become. You see the person your used to being. There is a lag time between the changes, and your full acceptance of the new reality.

Many times I see myself as the super- skinny,dorky, uncool, cant dress for crap kid who didnt really kiss a girl until freshman year of high school, or lose his virginity until 19.

Then there are other times, when I see myself as I am, and as I can be. These are the times that challenge me to be confident, yet humble. The gym has given me a much better physique than I had until a few years ago. I was 140 until my junior year of college. I'm 167 now. I've had in my bed that which I had previously pined for, but thought it was for other guys, not me.

That was always my question, "why not me?" I still ask it, but from a different place now. I ask it not in desperation, sorrow, or longing. I ask it in hope, and confidence.

I have come a long way from who I used to be. I am nowhere near where I'd like to be.
My only option then, is to keep moving forward, into the unknown, working for, and grasping hold of who I may become: my best self.

[Westfall]

If you are unhappy with your current situation, change it. Else accept it. I've seen plenty of fat guys who have chosen to accept it, and get tons of chicks. Don't make outside excuses for what happens to you. I really think all of you are cool enough that the fat thing wouldn't even be an issue. People react to you in the way that you let them. If you decide to change the most effective way I've found is to not "force" yourself into it, but to first imagine yourself as being what you want to be right now. Focus not on forcing yourself, but instead on changing your self image because that, is where the problem lies.

That sounds all good and stuff, but I get opened a lot more now that I've lost a lot of weight...and attraction is sometimes just there before I even do anything.

If you look like a fat mess, it's going to be harder for you obviously. Looks matter, IMO. As my friend once pointed out girls also want a guy that will look good beside them as a bf....it raises her value more if you're an inshape guy and it lowers it to be with a fatass, because of the way society views fatness.