Christ, I should have known I was going to have to spell it out.
When I said: "I'd say that paints an entirely different picture as to what people actual believe ABOUT God from both religions." I was implying something.
What I was implying is that the thought processes that come within Christianity led to "unalienable rights granted by god" whereas islam is centered around socialism.
Throughout time Christianity has developed into the most free society ever. You're welcome.
Regardless of what you say the founders believed, they supported the basis of this country around "natures god", as to encompass all religions to appease the many religions of the several states. Most states up until that point were ROOTED in some form of Christianity and many had some form of Christian based government. All, I believe, had God (Christian god) in the state Constitution.
Just like islam has different denominations, so does Christianity.
America was founded by a Christian people, regardless of how you would like to try and write the history books and it is Christianity that has delivered a version of government that FREES people not enslaves them with socialism.
Christianity is not better or worse than socialist-islam, Christianity is just different. I'm all for people figuring out about different religions, but let us not forget that it was Christianity that made slaves of a monarchy, free men, not islam.
Why would you want to support slavery or endorse something that has NEVER worked, i.e. socialism?
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The Pickup Artist Playground
Economic and women.
by Guest » Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:13 pm
Christianity is by far the strongest thread that binds the Western World together. It's what gives us a common history, and dates back 2010 years.
The pilgrims came to America to practice their form of Christianity. The founding fathers were Christians. The first Bible ever printed in the United States was officially issued by Congress; issued specifically for the study in schools, by the way.
Look, some people are religious, others are not. And diversity of belief is a good thing. But at the very least, you should respect the Christian tradition as a cornerstone of our shared culture. If you don't like it, at least shut up and get out of the way. And yes it should be taught in schools.
We need to quit pissing on each other and realize we're playing for the same team here. There are a lot of threats to the civilized Western world out there - whether it's militant Islamo-fascism, red China, or in recent years the godless Soviet machine.
Look at Europe today. At one point in history, it was a strong, Christian continent. Now it's mostly filled with people who think like Rhody, Muk, Spoonybard. The arrogant mindset where "fairness" is the ethic of the day, at the expense of higher ethics like work, unity, and humility to country and a higher authority. And as a result, they get walked all over. The problem with inclusion and not believing in anything is that it has no balls. It's a ball-free mentality. 30% of France, Germany are now Muslims who immigrated from the Middle East due to "fair" liberal policies. And I won't begin to explain the problems that's causing (crime, social disorder, society being eaten from within) because frankly, unless you live it you won't understand.
So, to Rhody, Muk, and Spoonybard - I'll give it to you straight. The reason BR's jokes about your "smart" comments are so funny is that your remarks reek of arrogance. Do you presume so much as to think that you can argue away over 2000 years of collective wisdom?
And you want to know what's really wrong with big governments? 90% of the time, they are arrogant enough to think they know what's right for you, and make bad decisions on your behalf that are not based on any kind of aquired wisdom, but only on the latest "theories".
So here's my humble suggestion. A. Grow a pair and quit trying to be nice to everybody. The other religions/people of the world can look out for themselves. B. Embrace who you are and be proud of it. You're American, and that's a damn good thing.
The pilgrims came to America to practice their form of Christianity. The founding fathers were Christians. The first Bible ever printed in the United States was officially issued by Congress; issued specifically for the study in schools, by the way.
Look, some people are religious, others are not. And diversity of belief is a good thing. But at the very least, you should respect the Christian tradition as a cornerstone of our shared culture. If you don't like it, at least shut up and get out of the way. And yes it should be taught in schools.
We need to quit pissing on each other and realize we're playing for the same team here. There are a lot of threats to the civilized Western world out there - whether it's militant Islamo-fascism, red China, or in recent years the godless Soviet machine.
Look at Europe today. At one point in history, it was a strong, Christian continent. Now it's mostly filled with people who think like Rhody, Muk, Spoonybard. The arrogant mindset where "fairness" is the ethic of the day, at the expense of higher ethics like work, unity, and humility to country and a higher authority. And as a result, they get walked all over. The problem with inclusion and not believing in anything is that it has no balls. It's a ball-free mentality. 30% of France, Germany are now Muslims who immigrated from the Middle East due to "fair" liberal policies. And I won't begin to explain the problems that's causing (crime, social disorder, society being eaten from within) because frankly, unless you live it you won't understand.
So, to Rhody, Muk, and Spoonybard - I'll give it to you straight. The reason BR's jokes about your "smart" comments are so funny is that your remarks reek of arrogance. Do you presume so much as to think that you can argue away over 2000 years of collective wisdom?
And you want to know what's really wrong with big governments? 90% of the time, they are arrogant enough to think they know what's right for you, and make bad decisions on your behalf that are not based on any kind of aquired wisdom, but only on the latest "theories".
So here's my humble suggestion. A. Grow a pair and quit trying to be nice to everybody. The other religions/people of the world can look out for themselves. B. Embrace who you are and be proud of it. You're American, and that's a damn good thing.
- Guest
by Guest » Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:22 pm
[QUOTE=spoonybard;35453]Christianity didn't seperate church and government. America did that. And many of America's Founding Fathers, men like Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson were not Christians, but Deists (the freethinkers of their day).
..last but certainly not least the sex-negative culture we live in.
Christianity is responsible for teaching billions of guys to wait for their wife who God has picked out for them, to deny their very nature as a man, to view sex as a shameful thing, to live in the absolute most beta way possible.[/QUOTE]
True. The "in god we trust" wasn't added on paper money until 1957.
([URL]http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.shtml[/URL])
But the religious thing goes for pretty much any of the monotheistic (islam, christian, jewish) religions. Look at the middle east, they are so against sex that they make their women dress head to toe and can't reveal anything except their face.
I was raised in a very strict, religious household. Was always told how evil sex before marriage was, that I should only marry a virgin girl. And tons of sex negetive like aspects. I think this environment is what messed up my social programming in the first place, and ultimately why I ended up here. Religions assisgned the word fornication to sex to make it sound dirty and sinful. Who would want to be a part of fornicating?
This is done to strengthen their moral directive. Religions (not just christianity) need members. They need you to start a family, be faithful, and raise your kids in a certain way to indoctrinate your offspring into the religion as well. If your out having adventures and screwing other girls (being alpha), you're not necessary going to have time to take those kids to church. Then they run out of members, which leads to running out of money, which is bad business for the religion.
Monogamy is rooted in religion. The human species are not naturally monogamous. Women love the taboo against monogamy because of their limited reproductive resources. If you go back and look at history, you will see that more important people had harems of women. Your rank would dictate how large your harem would be. Read the book "[COLOR=Red]The Red Queen[/COLOR]" for more info on this.
This is part of the reason why sex is so taboo in america. We have this fundamentalist mindset that is ingrained in us. Many american parents are totally fine with their kids seeing violence (in movies, videogames, or whatever), but nudity is a huge no no. We see a boob on screen, thats going to scar little timmy for life. In Europe its the opposite, sex is no big deal, its just a way of life. I have heard that in france it is common to see nude pics on the street, much like we have billboards.
[I]
I would like to make it clear that I am not making any political comments here. So do not say I am socialist, lib, or whatever the word of the week is. I think that all sides of the fence are ultimately the same and nothing will change much, if we elect candidate a or candidate b.
[/I]
..last but certainly not least the sex-negative culture we live in.
Christianity is responsible for teaching billions of guys to wait for their wife who God has picked out for them, to deny their very nature as a man, to view sex as a shameful thing, to live in the absolute most beta way possible.[/QUOTE]
True. The "in god we trust" wasn't added on paper money until 1957.
([URL]http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.shtml[/URL])
But the religious thing goes for pretty much any of the monotheistic (islam, christian, jewish) religions. Look at the middle east, they are so against sex that they make their women dress head to toe and can't reveal anything except their face.
I was raised in a very strict, religious household. Was always told how evil sex before marriage was, that I should only marry a virgin girl. And tons of sex negetive like aspects. I think this environment is what messed up my social programming in the first place, and ultimately why I ended up here. Religions assisgned the word fornication to sex to make it sound dirty and sinful. Who would want to be a part of fornicating?
This is done to strengthen their moral directive. Religions (not just christianity) need members. They need you to start a family, be faithful, and raise your kids in a certain way to indoctrinate your offspring into the religion as well. If your out having adventures and screwing other girls (being alpha), you're not necessary going to have time to take those kids to church. Then they run out of members, which leads to running out of money, which is bad business for the religion.
Monogamy is rooted in religion. The human species are not naturally monogamous. Women love the taboo against monogamy because of their limited reproductive resources. If you go back and look at history, you will see that more important people had harems of women. Your rank would dictate how large your harem would be. Read the book "[COLOR=Red]The Red Queen[/COLOR]" for more info on this.
This is part of the reason why sex is so taboo in america. We have this fundamentalist mindset that is ingrained in us. Many american parents are totally fine with their kids seeing violence (in movies, videogames, or whatever), but nudity is a huge no no. We see a boob on screen, thats going to scar little timmy for life. In Europe its the opposite, sex is no big deal, its just a way of life. I have heard that in france it is common to see nude pics on the street, much like we have billboards.
[I]
I would like to make it clear that I am not making any political comments here. So do not say I am socialist, lib, or whatever the word of the week is. I think that all sides of the fence are ultimately the same and nothing will change much, if we elect candidate a or candidate b.
[/I]
- Guest
by Guest » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:02 am
Since this thread somehow got on the religion/creationist/evolutionist subject, I have a few points I want to throw out there.
1) Question directed at Creationists: If we were created by a divine power, then why were humans given gal bladders? It serves no function yet can kill you if it bursts. It's a simple question (I think), yet I have yet to hear an answer. :/
2) The way I view "God" or just a general belief in a higher/divine power is that what is being considered a divine power is really just a higher state of our conscious. For this to work like I think it does, there would have to be extreme coordination between the higher conscious, conscious, and subconscious. You could see in this process that it would be completely feasible for certain parts of the conscious' interactions to not function properly...creating such things as pedophiles, serial killers, extremist, etc. A more complex type of mental disorder...more complex, but fundamental...that even makes sense.
I took way too much Adderall today, and I'm squirting verbal diarrhea all over the place. This probably won't make sense tomorrow...
1) Question directed at Creationists: If we were created by a divine power, then why were humans given gal bladders? It serves no function yet can kill you if it bursts. It's a simple question (I think), yet I have yet to hear an answer. :/
2) The way I view "God" or just a general belief in a higher/divine power is that what is being considered a divine power is really just a higher state of our conscious. For this to work like I think it does, there would have to be extreme coordination between the higher conscious, conscious, and subconscious. You could see in this process that it would be completely feasible for certain parts of the conscious' interactions to not function properly...creating such things as pedophiles, serial killers, extremist, etc. A more complex type of mental disorder...more complex, but fundamental...that even makes sense.
I took way too much Adderall today, and I'm squirting verbal diarrhea all over the place. This probably won't make sense tomorrow...
- Guest
by Guest » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:31 am
[QUOTE=grimm1111;35455]Christianity is by far the strongest thread that binds the Western World together. It's what gives us a common history, and dates back 2010 years.
The pilgrims came to America to practice their form of Christianity. The founding fathers were Christians. The first Bible ever printed in the United States was officially issued by Congress; issued specifically for the study in schools, by the way.
Look, some people are religious, others are not. And diversity of belief is a good thing. But at the very least, you should respect the Christian tradition as a cornerstone of our shared culture. If you don't like it, at least shut up and get out of the way. And yes it should be taught in schools.
We need to quit pissing on each other and realize we're playing for the same team here. There are a lot of threats to the civilized Western world out there - whether it's militant Islamo-fascism, red China, or in recent years the godless Soviet machine.
Look at Europe today. At one point in history, it was a strong, Christian continent. Now it's mostly filled with people who think like Rhody, Muk, Spoonybard. The arrogant mindset where "fairness" is the ethic of the day, at the expense of higher ethics like work, unity, and humility to country and a higher authority. And as a result, they get walked all over. The problem with inclusion and not believing in anything is that it has no balls. It's a ball-free mentality. 30% of France, Germany are now Muslims who immigrated from the Middle East due to "fair" liberal policies. And I won't begin to explain the problems that's causing (crime, social disorder, society being eaten from within) because frankly, unless you live it you won't understand.
So, to Rhody, Muk, and Spoonybard - I'll give it to you straight. The reason BR's jokes about your "smart" comments are so funny is that your remarks reek of arrogance. Do you presume so much as to think that you can argue away over 2000 years of collective wisdom?
And you want to know what's really wrong with big governments? 90% of the time, they are arrogant enough to think they know what's right for you, and make bad decisions on your behalf that are not based on any kind of aquired wisdom, but only on the latest "theories".
So here's my humble suggestion. A. Grow a pair and quit trying to be nice to everybody. The other religions/people of the world can look out for themselves. B. Embrace who you are and be proud of it. You're American, and that's a damn good thing.[/QUOTE]
I'm not a big fan of Islam either. But my hate for Christianity is more personal because of how wasting 10 years of my life believing in it hardcore from age 15-25 negatively affected me.
Nor am I a big fan of big government. The only "liberal" views I have espoused here are pro-choice and anti-religion.
I don't consider myself a conservative or a liberal.
There are a lot of good things about America, things it does better than other countries. America probably has the freest speech out there (except if you want to show nudity/sex). But there are a lot of things other countries do better than America, and one of those things is sexual freedom.
The pilgrims came to America to practice their form of Christianity. The founding fathers were Christians. The first Bible ever printed in the United States was officially issued by Congress; issued specifically for the study in schools, by the way.
Look, some people are religious, others are not. And diversity of belief is a good thing. But at the very least, you should respect the Christian tradition as a cornerstone of our shared culture. If you don't like it, at least shut up and get out of the way. And yes it should be taught in schools.
We need to quit pissing on each other and realize we're playing for the same team here. There are a lot of threats to the civilized Western world out there - whether it's militant Islamo-fascism, red China, or in recent years the godless Soviet machine.
Look at Europe today. At one point in history, it was a strong, Christian continent. Now it's mostly filled with people who think like Rhody, Muk, Spoonybard. The arrogant mindset where "fairness" is the ethic of the day, at the expense of higher ethics like work, unity, and humility to country and a higher authority. And as a result, they get walked all over. The problem with inclusion and not believing in anything is that it has no balls. It's a ball-free mentality. 30% of France, Germany are now Muslims who immigrated from the Middle East due to "fair" liberal policies. And I won't begin to explain the problems that's causing (crime, social disorder, society being eaten from within) because frankly, unless you live it you won't understand.
So, to Rhody, Muk, and Spoonybard - I'll give it to you straight. The reason BR's jokes about your "smart" comments are so funny is that your remarks reek of arrogance. Do you presume so much as to think that you can argue away over 2000 years of collective wisdom?
And you want to know what's really wrong with big governments? 90% of the time, they are arrogant enough to think they know what's right for you, and make bad decisions on your behalf that are not based on any kind of aquired wisdom, but only on the latest "theories".
So here's my humble suggestion. A. Grow a pair and quit trying to be nice to everybody. The other religions/people of the world can look out for themselves. B. Embrace who you are and be proud of it. You're American, and that's a damn good thing.[/QUOTE]
I'm not a big fan of Islam either. But my hate for Christianity is more personal because of how wasting 10 years of my life believing in it hardcore from age 15-25 negatively affected me.
Nor am I a big fan of big government. The only "liberal" views I have espoused here are pro-choice and anti-religion.
I don't consider myself a conservative or a liberal.
There are a lot of good things about America, things it does better than other countries. America probably has the freest speech out there (except if you want to show nudity/sex). But there are a lot of things other countries do better than America, and one of those things is sexual freedom.
- Guest
by Guest » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:42 am
Pascal's Wager - "...though the existence of God cannot be determined through reason, a person should wager as though God exists, because living life accordingly has everything to gain, and nothing to lose."
When it comes down to it, religion is about morals. Nothing else. Treat others the way you want to be treated, love yourself the way you love God, and praise him.
[QUOTE] 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments" (Matthew 22:37-40 NIV)[/QUOTE](when Jesus was asked which commandment was the greatest)
God knows we screw up. But really these are the biggest things.
I don't wish socialism, communism, et al on anyone therefore I do not agree with the thoughts and the religions that perpetrate such acts. I believe God intended us to be free and that as it says in the Bible man is incapable of governing themselves. (hence borderline anarchy in the US from the start).
I don't know why we have gall bladders. But lets just assume we evolved and they some how hung around, which would be the other scenario, eventually you'll get to the point of, "where did that come from?" Even if you keep tracing back the evolutionary chain eventually you'll end up asking, "Where did that come from?" Even so, say God put it there, does it matter? Maybe he meant it as a device to take people out of this world as he see's fit.
So, Pascal's Wager - "...though the existence of God cannot be determined through reason, a person should wager as though God exists, because living life accordingly has everything to gain, and nothing to lose." and besides, we should all treat others the way we'd like to be treated.
Our economy is directly tied to this country's religion. From the hard working farmer who has an unfounded since of pride and moral upbringing to do a job he more than likely gets paid little for, all the way to the top executive, who as of late will more than likely take advantage of peoples generosity. The foundation of our economy and ultimately this country is rooted deep in Christianity and to ignore that is economic suicide, we'll end up with more of the CEO's I just mentioned. People have lost most of the Christian morals we once used to hold dear.
Notice I said, most. Morality isn't definitely defined in the bible. That is why the greatest commandments are, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself."
You can't talk about economics without at least mentioning morals, and you can't mention morals without bringing up the root of them, faith, which then brings in religion.
When it comes down to it, religion is about morals. Nothing else. Treat others the way you want to be treated, love yourself the way you love God, and praise him.
[QUOTE] 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments" (Matthew 22:37-40 NIV)[/QUOTE](when Jesus was asked which commandment was the greatest)
God knows we screw up. But really these are the biggest things.
I don't wish socialism, communism, et al on anyone therefore I do not agree with the thoughts and the religions that perpetrate such acts. I believe God intended us to be free and that as it says in the Bible man is incapable of governing themselves. (hence borderline anarchy in the US from the start).
I don't know why we have gall bladders. But lets just assume we evolved and they some how hung around, which would be the other scenario, eventually you'll get to the point of, "where did that come from?" Even if you keep tracing back the evolutionary chain eventually you'll end up asking, "Where did that come from?" Even so, say God put it there, does it matter? Maybe he meant it as a device to take people out of this world as he see's fit.
So, Pascal's Wager - "...though the existence of God cannot be determined through reason, a person should wager as though God exists, because living life accordingly has everything to gain, and nothing to lose." and besides, we should all treat others the way we'd like to be treated.
Our economy is directly tied to this country's religion. From the hard working farmer who has an unfounded since of pride and moral upbringing to do a job he more than likely gets paid little for, all the way to the top executive, who as of late will more than likely take advantage of peoples generosity. The foundation of our economy and ultimately this country is rooted deep in Christianity and to ignore that is economic suicide, we'll end up with more of the CEO's I just mentioned. People have lost most of the Christian morals we once used to hold dear.
Notice I said, most. Morality isn't definitely defined in the bible. That is why the greatest commandments are, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself."
You can't talk about economics without at least mentioning morals, and you can't mention morals without bringing up the root of them, faith, which then brings in religion.
- Guest
by Guest » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:56 am
[QUOTE=spoonybard;35460]I'm not a big fan of Islam either. But my hate for Christianity is more personal because of how wasting 10 years of my life believing in it hardcore from age 15-25 negatively affected me.
Nor am I a big fan of big government. The only "liberal" views I have espoused here are pro-choice and anti-religion.
I don't consider myself a conservative or a liberal.
There are a lot of good things about America, things it does better than other countries. America probably has the freest speech out there (except if you want to show nudity/sex). But there are a lot of things other countries do better than America, and one of those things is sexual freedom.[/QUOTE]
Spoony,
That sucks you have filled your heart with hate, for anything for that matter. People die a little when they have hate within them. I can think of one other person who let hate completely consume them regarding women. It mad him unbearable to be around. I too, battle with hate for my ex.
Perhaps it would be best to not view it as a waste?
I haven't been in a church in sometime because of some of the happenings I felt were pretty hypocritical. But fundamentally I think you believe like me, that the only 2 things that people should really focus on are loving God with all your heart, and treating others the way you'd like to be treated. I think the problem is, that you got mixed in with a poor christian crowd. Christians aren't perfect. I have a saying, "Religion sucks, God is cool."
I wouldn't say America is any worse or better than any other country. Hell, here in this community we learn than American women are just as sexual as European women. Americans are sexual, maybe you just positioned yourself in a bad environment? My group of people I hang out with, is extremely sexual. Isn't that what pick up is about? Finding the sexual group you'd like to be a part of?
Nor am I a big fan of big government. The only "liberal" views I have espoused here are pro-choice and anti-religion.
I don't consider myself a conservative or a liberal.
There are a lot of good things about America, things it does better than other countries. America probably has the freest speech out there (except if you want to show nudity/sex). But there are a lot of things other countries do better than America, and one of those things is sexual freedom.[/QUOTE]
Spoony,
That sucks you have filled your heart with hate, for anything for that matter. People die a little when they have hate within them. I can think of one other person who let hate completely consume them regarding women. It mad him unbearable to be around. I too, battle with hate for my ex.
Perhaps it would be best to not view it as a waste?
I haven't been in a church in sometime because of some of the happenings I felt were pretty hypocritical. But fundamentally I think you believe like me, that the only 2 things that people should really focus on are loving God with all your heart, and treating others the way you'd like to be treated. I think the problem is, that you got mixed in with a poor christian crowd. Christians aren't perfect. I have a saying, "Religion sucks, God is cool."
I wouldn't say America is any worse or better than any other country. Hell, here in this community we learn than American women are just as sexual as European women. Americans are sexual, maybe you just positioned yourself in a bad environment? My group of people I hang out with, is extremely sexual. Isn't that what pick up is about? Finding the sexual group you'd like to be a part of?
- Guest
by Guest » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:04 am
[QUOTE=Finesse;35461]Pascal's Wager - "...though the existence of God cannot be determined through reason, a person should wager as though God exists, because living life accordingly has everything to gain, and nothing to lose."
[/QUOTE]
There are many problems with pascals wager.
1 - It assumes that there is only one god which can be believed in, the Christian one. This is not true, since there are a plethora of gods that have been believed throughout the millennia. This would have to be applied to each and every one of those gods to be true, and this would clearly be impossible, due to the clashing natures of many of the said gods. If there is only one god, then your chance of worshipping it, and not a nonexistent entity instead, is one out of infinity. So if a god does exist, the chance of you going to any variety of heaven is infinitesimal, regardless of whether you are religious or not.
2 - It assumes that simply wagering on [the Christian] God will buy one entrance into Heaven. While this may be so, the Wager does not instill a belief, it instills an appearance of a belief. Since the god in question is presumed to be all-knowing, he would be able to tell a false from a true belief. Therefore, the belief from the Wager would not qualify should belief be the requirement for entrance into Heaven.
3 - It ignores too many alternate possibilities - some of which are addressed by existing religions, and some which are not. Some examples: A God could reward on criteria which seem meaningless to us - hair colour, taste in clothes, music etc. or A God might not be concerned with humans at all - the universe could be here for hydrogen for all we know. Or God may even reward those who [U]don't[/U] believe.
[QUOTE=Finesse;35461]When it comes down to it, religion is about morals. Nothing else. Treat others the way you want to be treated, love yourself the way you love God, and praise him.[/QUOTE]
I do agree with this to an extent. I think originally the bible was made up of stories that were meant to be analogical and had a moral to their stories, but some people misinterpreted it and took it literally. Does the bible have some good morals to live by? Sure. But you don't need to be religious to have morals. One can exsist without the other. Look at the ten commandments, only a handfull of those are actual laws today, so saying that all morals are based on religion is a misnomer.
[QUOTE=Finesse;35461]we should all treat others the way we'd like to be treated. [/QUOTE]
Steller advice, this is what everyone should live by.
[/QUOTE]
There are many problems with pascals wager.
1 - It assumes that there is only one god which can be believed in, the Christian one. This is not true, since there are a plethora of gods that have been believed throughout the millennia. This would have to be applied to each and every one of those gods to be true, and this would clearly be impossible, due to the clashing natures of many of the said gods. If there is only one god, then your chance of worshipping it, and not a nonexistent entity instead, is one out of infinity. So if a god does exist, the chance of you going to any variety of heaven is infinitesimal, regardless of whether you are religious or not.
2 - It assumes that simply wagering on [the Christian] God will buy one entrance into Heaven. While this may be so, the Wager does not instill a belief, it instills an appearance of a belief. Since the god in question is presumed to be all-knowing, he would be able to tell a false from a true belief. Therefore, the belief from the Wager would not qualify should belief be the requirement for entrance into Heaven.
3 - It ignores too many alternate possibilities - some of which are addressed by existing religions, and some which are not. Some examples: A God could reward on criteria which seem meaningless to us - hair colour, taste in clothes, music etc. or A God might not be concerned with humans at all - the universe could be here for hydrogen for all we know. Or God may even reward those who [U]don't[/U] believe.
[QUOTE=Finesse;35461]When it comes down to it, religion is about morals. Nothing else. Treat others the way you want to be treated, love yourself the way you love God, and praise him.[/QUOTE]
I do agree with this to an extent. I think originally the bible was made up of stories that were meant to be analogical and had a moral to their stories, but some people misinterpreted it and took it literally. Does the bible have some good morals to live by? Sure. But you don't need to be religious to have morals. One can exsist without the other. Look at the ten commandments, only a handfull of those are actual laws today, so saying that all morals are based on religion is a misnomer.
[QUOTE=Finesse;35461]we should all treat others the way we'd like to be treated. [/QUOTE]
Steller advice, this is what everyone should live by.
- Guest
by Guest » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:33 am
[QUOTE=Just/Us;35463]There are many problems with pascals wager.
1 - It assumes that there is only one god which can be believed in, the Christian one. This is not true, since there are a plethora of gods that have been believed throughout the millennia. This would have to be applied to each and every one of those gods to be true, and this would clearly be impossible, due to the clashing natures of many of the said gods. If there is only one god, then your chance of worshipping it, and not a nonexistent entity instead, is one out of infinity. So if a god does exist, the chance of you going to any variety of heaven is infinitesimal, regardless of whether you are religious or not.
2 - It assumes that simply wagering on [the Christian] God will buy one entrance into Heaven. While this may be so, the Wager does not instill a belief, it instills an appearance of a belief. Since the god in question is presumed to be all-knowing, he would be able to tell a false from a true belief. Therefore, the belief from the Wager would not qualify should belief be the requirement for entrance into Heaven.
3 - It ignores too many alternate possibilities - some of which are addressed by existing religions, and some which are not. Some examples: A God could reward on criteria which seem meaningless to us - hair colour, taste in clothes, music etc. or A God might not be concerned with humans at all - the universe could be here for hydrogen for all we know. Or God may even reward those who [U]don't[/U] believe.[/QUOTE]
So what are the other requirements for salvation for other faiths?
[QUOTE]
I do agree with this to an extent. I think originally the bible was made up of stories that were meant to be analogical and had a moral to their stories, but some people misinterpreted it and took it literally. Does the bible have some good morals to live by? Sure. But you don't need to be religious to have morals. One can exsist without the other. Look at the ten commandments, only a handfull of those are actual laws today, so saying that all morals are based on religion is a misnomer.
[/QUOTE]I never said you had to be religious to have morals. I said, "religion is about morals." I would also like to add it's also about believing in a higher being.
Morals outline how we treat each other. And really, religion (all religions) have been the main provider of morals, whether they came from hindu, christian, islamic backgrounds. My main question is, most other morals remain in a socialist, communist environment... yet Christianity is the only one that made a free people and a free country and let it thrive... not just get by, but become the strongest country in the world and thrive... let's put aside beliefs for now, and ask a question even an atheist can answer, why would we not want that? Why would we not want morals that made this country thrive and become the greatest, strongest country in the world regardless of where they came from?
1 - It assumes that there is only one god which can be believed in, the Christian one. This is not true, since there are a plethora of gods that have been believed throughout the millennia. This would have to be applied to each and every one of those gods to be true, and this would clearly be impossible, due to the clashing natures of many of the said gods. If there is only one god, then your chance of worshipping it, and not a nonexistent entity instead, is one out of infinity. So if a god does exist, the chance of you going to any variety of heaven is infinitesimal, regardless of whether you are religious or not.
2 - It assumes that simply wagering on [the Christian] God will buy one entrance into Heaven. While this may be so, the Wager does not instill a belief, it instills an appearance of a belief. Since the god in question is presumed to be all-knowing, he would be able to tell a false from a true belief. Therefore, the belief from the Wager would not qualify should belief be the requirement for entrance into Heaven.
3 - It ignores too many alternate possibilities - some of which are addressed by existing religions, and some which are not. Some examples: A God could reward on criteria which seem meaningless to us - hair colour, taste in clothes, music etc. or A God might not be concerned with humans at all - the universe could be here for hydrogen for all we know. Or God may even reward those who [U]don't[/U] believe.[/QUOTE]
So what are the other requirements for salvation for other faiths?
[QUOTE]
I do agree with this to an extent. I think originally the bible was made up of stories that were meant to be analogical and had a moral to their stories, but some people misinterpreted it and took it literally. Does the bible have some good morals to live by? Sure. But you don't need to be religious to have morals. One can exsist without the other. Look at the ten commandments, only a handfull of those are actual laws today, so saying that all morals are based on religion is a misnomer.
[/QUOTE]I never said you had to be religious to have morals. I said, "religion is about morals." I would also like to add it's also about believing in a higher being.
Morals outline how we treat each other. And really, religion (all religions) have been the main provider of morals, whether they came from hindu, christian, islamic backgrounds. My main question is, most other morals remain in a socialist, communist environment... yet Christianity is the only one that made a free people and a free country and let it thrive... not just get by, but become the strongest country in the world and thrive... let's put aside beliefs for now, and ask a question even an atheist can answer, why would we not want that? Why would we not want morals that made this country thrive and become the greatest, strongest country in the world regardless of where they came from?
- Guest
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