[QUOTE=Prodigy;35908]lion, everyone should be able to travel but only if they had the means to do so. If they don't have the disposable income to travel then they shouldn't. Plain and simple. Personal finances 101. People need to live within their means, incurring mass amounts of debt is partially what got us where we are today. Unfortunately, some feel that they are entitled to nice things which I disagree with; the finer things in life are bonuses.
If the poor cannot afford these things, then they have a decision to make. Better their position in life (getting an education, a better job, stop having kids, etc) or do nothing. It's not the gov'ts job to pay for peoples vacations (or nice cars, which happens all the time through abuse of social programs).
Lion you're probably right, I'd be extremely upset. Unfortunately, I probabaly wouldn't take any action that would force the gov't to change it's ways, it just requires too time and effort.[/QUOTE]
Sure, I agree that the lazy people who refuse to work shouldn't be given handouts. What about the people who work full-time at the only jobs available to them? Low paying labor jobs. They do their part in making this country work just like people who make a lot of money. And their the ones getting fucked the hardest. Am I the only one who see's this scheme as it really is? A way for the rich to take even more taxes. You think this is really to help the poor travel? Not at all.
Why is everyone so up in arms about the poorest people in the country? These people have the absolute worst station in life possible. Maybe they get a few bucks through welfare. So what? Their welfare checks wouldn't even take care of my monthly grocery bill. Are we really jealous of these people getting a few bucks a month? Not a one of us would trade position with them.
If we want to get mad about where are tax dollars are going then perhaps we should educate ourselves first. The poor people of this country don't cause this mess. It isn't like they stormed the capital and demanded welfare. They were simply given it. Getting mad about poor people is treating the symptom, not the cause.
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by Guest » Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:32 pm
[QUOTE=Lion;35909]Sure, I agree that the lazy people who refuse to work shouldn't be given handouts. What about the people who work full-time at the only jobs available to them? Low paying labor jobs. They do their part in making this country work just like people who make a lot of money. And their the ones getting fucked the hardest. Am I the only one who see's this scheme as it really is? A way for the rich to take even more taxes. You think this is really to help the poor travel? Not at all.
Why is everyone so up in arms about the poorest people in the country? These people have the absolute worst station in life possible. Maybe they get a few bucks through welfare. So what? Their welfare checks wouldn't even take care of my monthly grocery bill. Are we really jealous of these people getting a few bucks a month? Not a one of us would trade position with them.
If we want to get mad about where are tax dollars are going then perhaps we should educate ourselves first. The poor people of this country don't cause this mess. It isn't like they stormed the capital and demanded welfare. They were simply given it. Getting mad about poor people is treating the symptom, not the cause.[/QUOTE]
I have no issues with poor people and you're absolutely right, I wouldn't trade my position for theirs. It still doesn't make it right for the gov't to take my money to fund their vacation.
I don't want to get off topic and discuss welfare, but I will say this. There is major abuse with the social programs we have in place. Ever seen someone on WIC driving an escalade with 22" dubs? I have. One time too many.
Having said that, there are legitimate people that rely on welfare to put food on the table. But if you continue to hold their hands, they'll never be able to stand on their own two feet. You continue to give these people money and they'll learn to rely on it every month instead of putting in a few extra shifts or doing things to really change their life.
I'm one to believe of continual self improvement, but one has to be impelled to make such change. Welfare doesn't make people want to make their lives better. If anything, it enables them to live their life the exact same way day to day, year to year...
Why is everyone so up in arms about the poorest people in the country? These people have the absolute worst station in life possible. Maybe they get a few bucks through welfare. So what? Their welfare checks wouldn't even take care of my monthly grocery bill. Are we really jealous of these people getting a few bucks a month? Not a one of us would trade position with them.
If we want to get mad about where are tax dollars are going then perhaps we should educate ourselves first. The poor people of this country don't cause this mess. It isn't like they stormed the capital and demanded welfare. They were simply given it. Getting mad about poor people is treating the symptom, not the cause.[/QUOTE]
I have no issues with poor people and you're absolutely right, I wouldn't trade my position for theirs. It still doesn't make it right for the gov't to take my money to fund their vacation.
I don't want to get off topic and discuss welfare, but I will say this. There is major abuse with the social programs we have in place. Ever seen someone on WIC driving an escalade with 22" dubs? I have. One time too many.
Having said that, there are legitimate people that rely on welfare to put food on the table. But if you continue to hold their hands, they'll never be able to stand on their own two feet. You continue to give these people money and they'll learn to rely on it every month instead of putting in a few extra shifts or doing things to really change their life.
I'm one to believe of continual self improvement, but one has to be impelled to make such change. Welfare doesn't make people want to make their lives better. If anything, it enables them to live their life the exact same way day to day, year to year...
- Guest
by Guest » Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:37 pm
[QUOTE=Lion;35909]If we want to get mad about where are tax dollars are going then perhaps we should educate ourselves first. The poor people of this country don't cause this mess. It isn't like they stormed the capital and demanded welfare. They were simply given it. Getting mad about poor people is treating the symptom, not the cause.[/QUOTE]
The welfare state was created by the wealthy to create a permanent underclass of poor citizens in this country. The goal was to redistribute some of the wealth from the upper class and middle class to the lower class in hopes of providing them with just enough to get by. No more and they could potentially engage in upward mobility. No less and they'll grow discontented, but just enough to keep them quite, keep them from improving their lot in life too much, to keep them working for the rich, and buying the goods/services that the rich produce.
Welfare is a complete and utter scam. It's an investment from which the rich get paid handsome dividends in the form of an obedient under class that will do their beckoning as the rich sees fit.
The welfare state was created by the wealthy to create a permanent underclass of poor citizens in this country. The goal was to redistribute some of the wealth from the upper class and middle class to the lower class in hopes of providing them with just enough to get by. No more and they could potentially engage in upward mobility. No less and they'll grow discontented, but just enough to keep them quite, keep them from improving their lot in life too much, to keep them working for the rich, and buying the goods/services that the rich produce.
Welfare is a complete and utter scam. It's an investment from which the rich get paid handsome dividends in the form of an obedient under class that will do their beckoning as the rich sees fit.
- Guest
by Guest » Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:40 pm
[QUOTE=Prodigy;35911]I have no issues with poor people and you're absolutely right, I wouldn't trade my position for theirs. It still doesn't make it right for the gov't to take my money to fund their vacation.
I don't want to get off topic and discuss welfare, but I will say this. There is major abuse with the social programs we have in place. Ever seen someone on WIC driving an escalade with 22" dubs? I have. One time too many.
Having said that, there are legitimate people that rely on welfare to put food on the table. But if you continue to hold their hands, they'll never be able to stand on their own two feet. You continue to give these people money and they'll learn to rely on it every month instead of putting in a few extra shifts or doing things to really change their life.
I'm one to believe of continual self improvement, but one has to be impelled to make such change. Welfare doesn't make people want to make their lives better. If anything, it enables them to live their life the exact same way day to day, year to year...[/QUOTE]
Yes, lets get rid of welfare. To do that you have to go to the top of the pyramid, not the bottom. Forget about the poor people who abuse the system. They have no power. They can't do anything. There are more rich people taking your money away then there are poor people taking it. Your tax money supports far greater crimes than welfare. Poor people are taking a few pennies in plain sight while the rich* are taking wheelbarrows full of money from you and vacuuming up every dropped cent.
The problem with the people at the bottom of the pyramid is not that they take goverment money. It's that they refuse to wake up to change their circumstances. They refuse to do anything to better their situation.
Even you yourself said you would not do anything to change the way your taxes are spent. Now if you, as a tax-paying American, refuse to change the system that you don't agree with, who will?
*When I say rich, I mean ultra-mega rich. I don't mean the guy who worked hard his whole life and is now a millionaire. I'm talking about old money. I'm talking about the owners of this country.
I don't want to get off topic and discuss welfare, but I will say this. There is major abuse with the social programs we have in place. Ever seen someone on WIC driving an escalade with 22" dubs? I have. One time too many.
Having said that, there are legitimate people that rely on welfare to put food on the table. But if you continue to hold their hands, they'll never be able to stand on their own two feet. You continue to give these people money and they'll learn to rely on it every month instead of putting in a few extra shifts or doing things to really change their life.
I'm one to believe of continual self improvement, but one has to be impelled to make such change. Welfare doesn't make people want to make their lives better. If anything, it enables them to live their life the exact same way day to day, year to year...[/QUOTE]
Yes, lets get rid of welfare. To do that you have to go to the top of the pyramid, not the bottom. Forget about the poor people who abuse the system. They have no power. They can't do anything. There are more rich people taking your money away then there are poor people taking it. Your tax money supports far greater crimes than welfare. Poor people are taking a few pennies in plain sight while the rich* are taking wheelbarrows full of money from you and vacuuming up every dropped cent.
The problem with the people at the bottom of the pyramid is not that they take goverment money. It's that they refuse to wake up to change their circumstances. They refuse to do anything to better their situation.
Even you yourself said you would not do anything to change the way your taxes are spent. Now if you, as a tax-paying American, refuse to change the system that you don't agree with, who will?
*When I say rich, I mean ultra-mega rich. I don't mean the guy who worked hard his whole life and is now a millionaire. I'm talking about old money. I'm talking about the owners of this country.
- Guest
by Guest » Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:59 pm
[QUOTE=Lion;35919]Yes, lets get rid of welfare. To do that you have to go to the top of the pyramid, not the bottom. Forget about the poor people who abuse the system. They have no power. They can't do anything. There are more rich people taking your money away then there are poor people taking it. Your tax money supports far greater crimes than welfare. Poor people are taking a few pennies in plain sight while the rich* are taking wheelbarrows full of money from you and vacuuming up every dropped cent.
The problem with the people at the bottom of the pyramid is not that they take goverment money. It's that they refuse to wake up to change their circumstances. They refuse to do anything to better their situation.
Even you yourself said you would not do anything to change the way your taxes are spent. Now if you, as a tax-paying American, refuse to change the system that you don't agree with, who will?
*When I say rich, I mean ultra-mega rich. I don't mean the guy who worked hard his whole life and is now a millionaire. I'm talking about old money. I'm talking about the owners of this country.[/QUOTE]
there is no doubt that the rich run this country, but the only way things will ever change is through revolution.
The way our political system is designed makes it extremely difficult for us to change it. Grassroots efforts are just not enough to drive such a change as welfare (or social) reform--or more importantly, gov't reform
The problem with the people at the bottom of the pyramid is not that they take goverment money. It's that they refuse to wake up to change their circumstances. They refuse to do anything to better their situation.
Even you yourself said you would not do anything to change the way your taxes are spent. Now if you, as a tax-paying American, refuse to change the system that you don't agree with, who will?
*When I say rich, I mean ultra-mega rich. I don't mean the guy who worked hard his whole life and is now a millionaire. I'm talking about old money. I'm talking about the owners of this country.[/QUOTE]
there is no doubt that the rich run this country, but the only way things will ever change is through revolution.
The way our political system is designed makes it extremely difficult for us to change it. Grassroots efforts are just not enough to drive such a change as welfare (or social) reform--or more importantly, gov't reform
- Guest
by Guest » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:11 am
[QUOTE=Prodigy;35921]there is no doubt that the rich run this country, but the only way things will ever change is through revolution.
The way our political system is designed makes it extremely difficult for us to change it. Grassroots efforts are just not enough to drive such a change as welfare (or social) reform--or more importantly, gov't reform[/QUOTE]
Never underestimate the desire of a slave yearning to be free my friend. The problem in our country is that people truly believe they are free when, in fact, they are not. It's an illusion that is perpetuated by both public and private entities. People simply just do not think for themselves.
The way our political system is designed makes it extremely difficult for us to change it. Grassroots efforts are just not enough to drive such a change as welfare (or social) reform--or more importantly, gov't reform[/QUOTE]
Never underestimate the desire of a slave yearning to be free my friend. The problem in our country is that people truly believe they are free when, in fact, they are not. It's an illusion that is perpetuated by both public and private entities. People simply just do not think for themselves.
- Guest
by Guest » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:58 am
[QUOTE=Bull Run;35927]Never underestimate the desire of a slave yearning to be free my friend. The problem in our country is that people truly believe they are free when, in fact, they are not. It's an illusion that is perpetuated by both public and private entities. People simply just do not think for themselves.[/QUOTE]
I see your point and agree, my perception is not freedom vs slavery, but rather, contentment vs misery.
What I mean is that most of the american public are content with their situation; so why force change of the status quo?
For example, Im not exactly happy that I pay a shit load of taxes, BUT, overall, I love my life. Why would I be compelled to put forth so much effort into (social, gov't) reform? I pay taxes, but hey, I still get to eat at nice restaurants and do things I enjoy...
Every revolution (and I would consider rights movements as a social revolution) is driven by public unrest. The American Revolutionary war. The French Revolution. Abolition of slavery. The civil rights movement. Each of these revoltions were driven by people who were unhappy, they were motivated by misery.
Some americans think theyre pissed off, but in reality, they just are not upset enough to drive change...
I see your point and agree, my perception is not freedom vs slavery, but rather, contentment vs misery.
What I mean is that most of the american public are content with their situation; so why force change of the status quo?
For example, Im not exactly happy that I pay a shit load of taxes, BUT, overall, I love my life. Why would I be compelled to put forth so much effort into (social, gov't) reform? I pay taxes, but hey, I still get to eat at nice restaurants and do things I enjoy...
Every revolution (and I would consider rights movements as a social revolution) is driven by public unrest. The American Revolutionary war. The French Revolution. Abolition of slavery. The civil rights movement. Each of these revoltions were driven by people who were unhappy, they were motivated by misery.
Some americans think theyre pissed off, but in reality, they just are not upset enough to drive change...
- Guest
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