Dallas PUA

Hey Guys,
I was talking to a friend of mine who now lives in Las Vegas and he told me about something he was doing with his Online Game. It was unlike anything I had ever heard of. I have seen some of the girls this guy goes out with and they are very cute.

Then he said that before he was dating his current girlfriend that he used to get 4-5 dates a week using his system.

What this guy does is market himself REALLY good.

I told him about the community and that he should start a business. Well, he said "that will never sell."

Personally, I think it can sell. I think alot of guys would want what my friend Dave has. So I am seriously thinking about starting a business with him.
Maybe I could help him market it. Or maybe just connect him to some of the people I know in the area. Some of you guys probably know Nitro Marketing, I'm sure.

But before I do that, I wanted to ask this question...

Would you guys like to hear this guy speak? Maybe we could book him a room in Addison so you could see what he does?
Of course, I'd have to get him here from Vegas. So I he might charge a small fee, maybe $10.00.

Post up a response if you all want to hear Dave speak.

I'm definitely one of the more vocal advocates of online game on these boards because I know how efficient and effective it can be if done correctly. So, I would be remise if I were to not want to come to such an event. The only issue, is that with online game it's even more tailored to the individual than in real life game. Congruence is the biggest obstacle preventing there being one or two super effective styles in the online world. It's much, much easier to come across as creepy, weird, desperate, etc. in the online world than in person. I think this is due to the lack of context...pictures and words on a screen have virtually no context to them, which means you can come across in super odd ways if what you're saying isn't 100% genuine and real. In other words, one guy's system is probably drastically different than another's. More than that though, the success one guy has in a certain regional area is going to be much, much different than if he were to employ his online game in a different part of the country.

I've actually experimented with that concept. I'm much more successful online in Chicago (considered moving there for a short period of time and wanted to see what the women were like) than I am in DFW. I'm better in Austin than in DFW, but worse than in Chicago. Houston was slightly better for me than DFW. Some people's personalities are just better suited for certain cities. There's also the impact of age. The older a man gets, the better his response rate. I've found this to be very, very true.

In other words, there are a lot of variables to control for in order to create a universal system or for anyone's specific system to be effective for another person. This is why I've never read a word about online game. No ebooks, no bootcamps, no forums (well, very little and most of it was me sharing my tactics), no DVDs, or YouTube whatever. I'm actually having this conversation via PM with one of the members here and both of us have acknowledged that a lot of the things I say online are just not congruent to his personality and the type of girl he's seeking out. That's normal.

Having said that, that doesn't mean there isn't value in this guy's advice because there certainly is. Most likely, his system will not provide the answer to a lot of guys but will certainly act to accentuate their existing online game. And, there is some value in that. But, if a guy is starting from zero regarding online game, then the advice he gets will help him but I suspect it won't be enough for the guy to be successful. Online game has a steep learning curve. I see this more as an intermediate type of class...it's not do you want to learn online game? It's probably more like do you want to improve your online game?

This guy's method may be good but he might have some advantages that are huge in the online world. A few questions:

Is this guy white?
Is he taller than six foot?
Does he have a six pack or muscular?
Is he in his late 20's to mid-30's?

I think if the answer is yes to all of those a guy should be able to net four dates a week easily. A lot of my civilian friends with no game at all can get at least one date a week in the online realm answering yes to half of the four criteria listed above.

Triumvirate

Triumvirate wrote:Is this guy white?
Is he taller than six foot?
Does he have a six pack or muscular?
Is he in his late 20's to mid-30's?

Initially I was going to disagree here. But, the evidence says otherwise. All of these are positive correlators to response rate via online game.

http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your- ... ne-dating/

I do think they're limited beliefs to some extent, even if there is truth to them, because I'm not sure they're necessary to be successful online. If you possess them, you'll be more successful no doubt. But, there are other ways to portray status online than just by physical appearances.

For example, the amount of money you make is probably a stronger correlator to success than any of these traits listed above. Now, that depends on the demographic you're playing with...a 19 year old girl doesn't give a shit about how much cash you make, she just wants you to be hot. A 25 year old will care less about your appearance and much, much more about your humor, intelligence, career success (aka money), wit, and perceived compatability.

I'm definitely interested in hearing what this friend of yours is doing. $10 is easily worth it. Get his ass over to Addison!

I'm sure wit, humor, and intelligence play a part. There is nothing that I have seen in my experience with online, that says that if you don't fit the monetary of physical (usually height and race) criteria, that you will have the opportunity to see what compatibility there is. That is why I like game offline more.

Triumvirate wrote:I'm sure wit, humor, and intelligence play a part. There is nothing that I have seen in my experience with online, that says that if you don't fit the monetary of physical (usually height and race) criteria, that you will have the opportunity to see what compatibility there is. That is why I like game offline more.

Eh, I still think that's a limiting belief. Those things are restrictions just as much in real life game as it is online. There are some men that can talk their face away BUT those are the men that have a much deeper set of characteristics that are appealing to women. Whether they do it online or offline is just semantics. If they can do it in person, they can do it online as well...they just need to learn the techniques required in both realms.

The study I referenced early tells us women are messaging less attractive men (according to women’s own assessments) because the suite of male attractiveness traits that women viscerally respond to includes much more than male physical attractiveness.

Women are looking at and judging the ENTIRE PROFILE of men and sending messages based on a more holistic appreciation of attractive male qualities. And what we can see based on female message sent rates is that plenty of ugly men — as perceived by women — are bringing other, compensating, attractiveness characteristics to the table that women find desirable in a mate.

This conclusion is perfectly aligned with evolutionary psychology theory.

Moral of the post: Men, work on your looks, get yourself looking as good as possible, but don’t worry so much if you’re not among the best looking men in the room. A lack of good looks is simply not the deal breaker for men that it is for women in the sexual marketplace. This holds true online as well as offline.

Caveat: studies have shown that white males get more responses from all races of women than any other race. So, that one does have some validity. But, I think that's more of a sign of our culture and how all races, in general, believe tha whites have higher status. So, it's not a superficial thing necessarily, it's a status issue.

In the end, men are always picked based on their status and that's an all encompassing, wholistic measurement system.

Triumvirate wrote:This guy's method may be good but he might have some advantages that are huge in the online world. A few questions:

Is this guy white?
Is he taller than six foot?
Does he have a six pack or muscular?
Is he in his late 20's to mid-30's?

Triumvirate

White? Yes
Taller than 6 ft? I think he's 6' 1" or 6 foot
Muscular? Not too much. He's not fat.
Age? Mid 30's.

So yeah he fits your criteria, sorta.

I don't want to spoil the party but his biggest thing he does is that he has his own website. He sends out invitations on facebook and email and gets them to his website. On the website, they fill out a form. Then he schedules dates.
He took down the site or I would post it and let you guys see it. He told me that he had to stop after a while because it got too intense for him and girls would start fighting on facebook.
So he shut it all down.

Bull Run wrote:
Eh, I still think that's a limiting belief. Those things are restrictions just as much in real life game as it is online. There are some men that can talk their face away BUT those are the men that have a much deeper set of characteristics that are appealing to women. Whether they do it online or offline is just semantics. If they can do it in person, they can do it online as well...they just need to learn the techniques required in both realms.

You can call it limiting beliefs, but I call it reality. The friend Triumvirate speaks of is who most would call an Average Joe. He would be Luke Wilson in Idiocracy. He has no unique redeeming qualities, and I mean none. He's one of the most boring habitual people I've known in my life. He goes to work, goes home, plays Skyrim for God knows how long, faps the night away, and goes to sleep. If he comes out once a month to sarge with us it would be a modern day miracle. He probably has a gym membership collecting dust somewhere.

He irons all his clothes on Sunday night for the entire week. It's not because he's too busy to do it during the week, but because he plays everything safe and never takes any chances. He's not rich, he's not poor, he's not anything. Not a member of any organizations, clubs, societies. I think he played recreational kickball once. Has maybe 100 friends on Facebook, and keeps that list short. He basically just exists. I know it sounds like I'm badmouthing him, but this is his life.

All that being said, this guy absolutely kills it on Match.com. Enough so that he doesn't feel he needs to improve himself in any way, or go out with us. Refuses to read any PUA material. Somehow the idea got in his head that he's entitled to decent/good looking girls, even though he hasn't done anything to earn it. He probably gets an average of one date a week. So he's taking one girl out a week...and more often than not, never hears from them again. Or the shit goes quickly downhill from that point. Most likely because they realize how unspecial he is. But they saw his picture online, nothing seemed threatening, so they gave him a chance. He had been telling me for years I should join Match, but I didn't see it as necessary.

But after we both moved to DFW and seeing how many dates he was getting, I said to myself, "Self, you could get on Match.com and kill it just as well or better than him. You're actually cool and have a large network of girls and people in real life. This will be a breeze."

Let me give you a quick background on myself. I was one of the guys in college a lot of people knew (enrollment of 25k). I was a D1 athlete, 6'3", not ugly, an engineering major, minored in Spanish just to meet some non-engineers. Was in three or four organizations. I knew the athletes, I knew the nerds. Modified my car just to learn something new. I slept 4 hours a night just so I could do it all. Went out every weekend if I didn't have games/meets. And when I had time, banged the occasional broads. Our friend from above complained it wasn't fair that he wasn't getting chicks like I was. That was six years ago.

Fast forward to today. I'm in as good if not better shape, put on 15-20 lbs of muscle, still compete at the level I did in college, play in adult soccer leagues, coach kids over the summer, and got my master's degree in a completely different part of the country, just because I wanted to try a new environment. Put some money together, got a really nice car. I'm usually out 3 nights a week, socializing, meeting girls, whatever. I have the tendency to attract people to myself if I feel like making myself seen.

So you get the gist. I don't completely suck, nor am I the spawn of Satan.

Anyways, I signed up for a week-long trial on Match.com. If the turnout was good I'd consider giving it a full month. I didn't half-ass it...I pooled all my resources for this shit. I read PUA material on how to make the most attractive profile and uploaded pictures of me doing anything you could think of. Spent about 3-4 hours a day going through profiles. Maxed out my daily message limit sending a combination of everything: personalized messages, funny and playful messages, straight to the point messages, whatever.

In that week, I sent out a total of 200-250 messages. Yes you read that right, two hundred to two hundred and fifty. And when I ran out of messages I winked the shit out of the rest. I was bringing the best I had to the table. I was killing it in real life, so online was going to be ka-razy! Even if I totally flopped and only managed to meet 10% of the girls, that's still 20 to 25 dates!

I got nothing. Motherfucking nothing.

I amassed a total of 6 or 7 replies, and managed to get the email addresses or numbers of about 4 or 5 of them before the trial ended. None of those turned into meetups. That comes out to a 3% reply rate, 2% number close rate, and 0% meetup rate.

You may be saying "What the fuck IsiMan84? You're like 1000% more valuable than your friend, you should be shutting that site down."

Oh yea, I forgot to mention something about myself earlier.

I'm black.

Not 'The Wire' black, not 'Carlton Banks' black, just regular black.

Being black is to online dating what country western is to a young person's music preference: most people like everything but that. A multitude of profiles I went through were looking for only White/Caucasian, and occasionally that plus Hispanic. I saw more profiles with every choice except black checked than ones with it included at all. If not one of those choice combinations then it was 'no preference'. Which means they were just too lazy to check any boxes, or didn't want to look like they were discriminating.

But that's just what I can see from my end. On their end, if they're actually searching (God forbid they don't get 100+ messages a day as it is) they're getting results based on their preferences, so guys like me won't even come up. My picture could have been of me sitting on a stack of money with Brad Pitt while Angelina Jolie blew me for everything she was worth, it wouldn't have mattered. So my only foot in the door is the message/wink I was sending, which is most likely ignored just from looking at my picture.

Oh and I forgot to mention, just based on the sheer numbers, roughly 50-75% of the girls I messaged/winked were white. And of the 5 emails/numbers I got, only one wasn't black.

Isi, it would be interesting to try your process on Match.com a second time around with a picture of an average-looking white dude. I'm struggling on Match as well, but I didn't go to such great lengths. Maybe 20-30 messages sent out, and I need more exciting profile pictures.