Want To Meet My Friend Who gets 4 Dates a Week?

[Bull Run]

You can call it limiting beliefs, but I call it reality. The friend Triumvirate speaks of is who most would call an Average Joe. He would be Luke Wilson in Idiocracy. He has no unique redeeming qualities, and I mean none. He's one of the most boring habitual people I've known in my life. He goes to work, goes home, plays Skyrim for God knows how long, faps the night away, and goes to sleep. If he comes out once a month to sarge with us it would be a modern day miracle. He probably has a gym membership collecting dust somewhere.

He irons all his clothes on Sunday night for the entire week. It's not because he's too busy to do it during the week, but because he plays everything safe and never takes any chances. He's not rich, he's not poor, he's not anything. Not a member of any organizations, clubs, societies. I think he played recreational kickball once. Has maybe 100 friends on Facebook, and keeps that list short. He basically just exists. I know it sounds like I'm badmouthing him, but this is his life.

All that being said, this guy absolutely kills it on Match.com. Enough so that he doesn't feel he needs to improve himself in any way, or go out with us. Refuses to read any PUA material. Somehow the idea got in his head that he's entitled to decent/good looking girls, even though he hasn't done anything to earn it. He probably gets an average of one date a week. So he's taking one girl out a week...and more often than not, never hears from them again. Or the shit goes quickly downhill from that point. Most likely because they realize how unspecial he is. But they saw his picture online, nothing seemed threatening, so they gave him a chance. He had been telling me for years I should join Match, but I didn't see it as necessary.

But after we both moved to DFW and seeing how many dates he was getting, I said to myself, "Self, you could get on Match.com and kill it just as well or better than him. You're actually cool and have a large network of girls and people in real life. This will be a breeze."

Let me give you a quick background on myself. I was one of the guys in college a lot of people knew (enrollment of 25k). I was a D1 athlete, 6'3", not ugly, an engineering major, minored in Spanish just to meet some non-engineers. Was in three or four organizations. I knew the athletes, I knew the nerds. Modified my car just to learn something new. I slept 4 hours a night just so I could do it all. Went out every weekend if I didn't have games/meets. And when I had time, banged the occasional broads. Our friend from above complained it wasn't fair that he wasn't getting chicks like I was. That was six years ago.

Fast forward to today. I'm in as good if not better shape, put on 15-20 lbs of muscle, still compete at the level I did in college, play in adult soccer leagues, coach kids over the summer, and got my master's degree in a completely different part of the country, just because I wanted to try a new environment. Put some money together, got a really nice car. I'm usually out 3 nights a week, socializing, meeting girls, whatever. I have the tendency to attract people to myself if I feel like making myself seen.

So you get the gist. I don't completely suck, nor am I the spawn of Satan.

Anyways, I signed up for a week-long trial on Match.com. If the turnout was good I'd consider giving it a full month. I didn't half-ass it...I pooled all my resources for this shit. I read PUA material on how to make the most attractive profile and uploaded pictures of me doing anything you could think of. Spent about 3-4 hours a day going through profiles. Maxed out my daily message limit sending a combination of everything: personalized messages, funny and playful messages, straight to the point messages, whatever.

In that week, I sent out a total of 200-250 messages. Yes you read that right, two hundred to two hundred and fifty. And when I ran out of messages I winked the shit out of the rest. I was bringing the best I had to the table. I was killing it in real life, so online was going to be ka-razy! Even if I totally flopped and only managed to meet 10% of the girls, that's still 20 to 25 dates!

I got nothing. Motherfucking nothing.

I amassed a total of 6 or 7 replies, and managed to get the email addresses or numbers of about 4 or 5 of them before the trial ended. None of those turned into meetups. That comes out to a 3% reply rate, 2% number close rate, and 0% meetup rate.

You may be saying "What the fuck IsiMan84? You're like 1000% more valuable than your friend, you should be shutting that site down."

Oh yea, I forgot to mention something about myself earlier.

I'm black.

Not 'The Wire' black, not 'Carlton Banks' black, just regular black.

Being black is to online dating what country western is to a young person's music preference: most people like everything but that. A multitude of profiles I went through were looking for only White/Caucasian, and occasionally that plus Hispanic. I saw more profiles with every choice except black checked than ones with it included at all. If not one of those choice combinations then it was 'no preference'. Which means they were just too lazy to check any boxes, or didn't want to look like they were discriminating.

But that's just what I can see from my end. On their end, if they're actually searching (God forbid they don't get 100+ messages a day as it is) they're getting results based on their preferences, so guys like me won't even come up. My picture could have been of me sitting on a stack of money with Brad Pitt while Angelina Jolie blew me for everything she was worth, it wouldn't have mattered. So my only foot in the door is the message/wink I was sending, which is most likely ignored just from looking at my picture.

Oh and I forgot to mention, just based on the sheer numbers, roughly 50-75% of the girls I messaged/winked were white. And of the 5 emails/numbers I got, only one wasn't black.

I see you actually read my post. I did concede the point that black men get the fewest responses from all female ethnicities. I don't think that's a limiting believe because there is a lot of data to support that to be the truth.

My point is that over the years, men have constantly bitched and moaned and groaned about how online game doesn't work. Over the years, I've dabbled and toyed and played around with online game most with little to no success. But, in the last year, maybe year and a half, I've found that my game is much, much more effective. If I'm not getting 2 legitimate contacts a week then I'm thoroughly shocked. And, I don't send out a lot of emails either. The ones I do send out are just highly effective because I figured out how to do it online. I'm not saying I'm some kind of Casanova I'm just saying that I figured out how to run my game online and to run it well.

You seem to blame not being successful online purely on the fact that your black, which very well may be the case. I'm not here to dispute that in any way. But, if you were to list the biggest reason you get blown out in real life I bet it would be because you're black. It's an unfortunate commentary on society, but that's just the reality. Off the top of my head, I can't think of even one of the many women (other than black women), and my data set is large enough to be satistically significant, I've been with that has ever showed interest in, was open to, or have ever been with a black guy (I take that back, I remember one). Maybe it's because we're in the South, which is probably as good a guess as any. I find it sad because I've dated all different kinds of races and I'm a white guy...shit, I would fuck the shit out of my downstairs neighbor (she's black) if it weren't for our community rule that we don't fuck neighbors.

Based on those conversations with various women in my past, I can see how white men will almost universally have an advantage over a black man. It sucks, but, like you said, it's reality.

My argument is that guys try to run online game, fail at it miserably, and then blame it on how they look. I don't think that's the case at all. I think it has a hell of a lot more to do with how you're running your game online than it does if you're some good looking stud. The guys that say online game doesn't work aren't any different than the guys that join the community and quit. They quit because they didn't succeed, for whatever reason, then they turn around and shit all over the concept of game, online or in real life. The guys that succeed know better. It's no different than in real life game, it takes time and effort and work. The thing that makes it more difficult is that you don't generally get any feedback from which to calibrate your game. This is why it takes more trial and error. But, once you get it to work, it works for you 24/7. Shit, I got an email last night while I was boxing and one this morning on the way into the office. I didn't solicit either one, they just sent them to me. What's wrong with running game while your doing virtually anything other than running game? Not a single thing.

I appreciate all of the value that you've created as a man. From one man with value very similar to yours (i.e. grad school, great paying job, verisitle, fit, etc.) I'll say that having all of that value is bad ass. In fact, I used to base my entire theory behind pick up and being successful at it on creating value and projecting that value. But, now, I realize that although it's bad ass and awesome, in truth women don't really care all that much about it these days. If you're not getting a woman's vag to tingle, then you're not getting anywhere with her. Value be damned. I had an LTR of almost three years that ended about this time last year. She had a kid and was twice divorced. I had zero intention of marrying her or even living with her. But, she was fun, I loved her, and she was a great lay. That didn't stop me from cheating on her more times that I'm proud to admit. She suspected, in fact, I'm sure she knew. But, she stayed. She stayed because of the tingles. Over time, those tingles went away and she meet someone else that made her tingle. An ex-con without a job. Living in a shit hole in Mesquite. I lapped him in value, but her pussy answered to him and not to me any longer (I grew apathetic of her and more focused on my 'side projects' with other girls). They're engaged. Value is good, but if you're not making her vag tingle then it's all for shit. Online game isn't about projecting traditional value, it's about making an emotional connection and getting her vag to tingle. You CAN do it online. It's easier in real life, but it can be done online.

Shit man, all game is about is connecting with women on an emotional level. Value doesn't have as much to do with it as most like to believe. It just gives us the confidence to try with beautiful women...call it a self-esteem backstop. If your personality isn't wisking her away to a new, exciting world then the amount of cash you have in the bank, your cool car, muscular physique, etc. doesn't make that much of a difference. Women respond to how they're treated and how you make them feel, not all of the value you possess...that value is just used as a tie breaker. Status is what women use to measure men. It starts with how does he make me feel, is he pinging my emotions, pulling my emotional levers, making me laugh, and what can he offer me in the world (which is how value comes into play...all of the degrees, great jobs, cars, clothes, physique, etc. is just a way of communicating to her that you're intelligent, driven, healthy, etc.). The value you have is just another soft measure of who you are as a man, another way to project your personality and if you're capable of protecting her, understanding her emotions, and how to deal with her. Value's not actually required if you can just figure out how to pull the right emotional levers and get her vag tingling and continue doing it over the long haul.

No scientific studies are required to prove that out, just walk around on a Saturday and you'll see all of the evidence you need to realize that 'value' as we see it isn't as important as we tend to believe.

And, I'm a little confused. Did you do this test 6 years ago? Because, if you did, the online world is drastically different today than it was then. So much so, that it's not even comparable.

[IsiMan84]

I wouldn't disagree with most of what you said there. Guys could piss and moan that online game doesn't work because for whatever reason. Race, looks, value, you name it. I won't blame it solely on race because I don't think being black matters *as much* when dealing with people in general, but yes there are some girls who absolutely won't get with guys of _____ race.

I think in the case of those guys who complain, the lack of skills can greatly outweigh the looks issue depending on the situation. But you have to consider, all she has on you is your picture, your profile description, and what you message to her. Your picture is basically your foot in the door to get them to click on your message or profile. Any girl who looks better than a 6 -- scratch that, is under 200 lbs. -- is getting hundreds of emails per week. Hundreds my nucca.

The reality of the matter is I've gotten girls through sites like Facebook and MySpace, which weren't even created for that purpose. I actually thought Match.com would be just as easy, if not easier, because I could do the same things I did on the other sites and the women could assume I was already interested in them. So basically skipping the "is he interested" step of the interaction.

But specifically on a dating site, women all of a sudden have such strict standards because the majority of them are looking for a LTR, if not marriage. After the experiences I had this weekend, I'm starting to believe that guys like my friend are basically the quintessential safety choice that women flock to after they've had their fun with guys like me or Triumvirate. I have absolutely nooooooooooooooooo problem banging girls of other races, but when it comes to brass tacks and they decide to settle down, I am not going to be their first choice.

I don't want to take away from anything you've accomplished online, but from what I've seen if you're white, over 6ft, and aren't completely incompetent you're going to get your fair share of dates just on principle. You're going to tell me that my friend is sending ground-breaking stuff? "Hey what's up" is all it takes to make their vag tingle and get him half as many dates as you? If that's the case, you're doing too much work. But on that note, it cracks me up when he hits a dry spell on there and comes to me or Triumvirate for advice or wants to go out and sarge.

The way I've seen it, the value I built up in life has pretty much been an equalizer to not being a minority. If I was a broke, unfunny, social skill lacking, uneducated black guy and rolled into Uptown driving a rusty '83 Cutlass, there's no convincing me I have an *equal* shot at top-notch hoes. The chances of becoming the black Kevin Federline are lower than winning the lottery.

I don't want to get too involved in the situation you had with your previous LTR, but I personally feel women will stick around if you bring more to the table than they do. If she couldn't get you to commit, which you clearly admitted you had no intention of doing, then she had to get what she wanted somewhere else. That is exactly value. It doesn't have to be all physical or possessive, it's emotional as well. Which means being able to give them the tingles is also a value. You had however much, and after a while weren't giving a lot of it to her. The other guy has diddly squat, but is giving her more of his diddly squat.

As far as the online dating experiment, that was two summers ago. Hardly a long time. I also tried a 3-day trial about 3 months ago. I believe I churned out about 120 messages to completely new girls (in this and a different metro). Results were consistent with the first trial. A handful of replies, no hits. What Morpheo suggested actually sounds like a good idea. I could send the exact same messages I did as a black guy but instead look like some unassuming white guy.

My prediction? I'd have to shut down my email account due to too many replies.

[Bull Run]

I don't really disagree with much of anything that you said. It's very true that women get hundreds of emails and most of them are pretty generic...the whole 'hey what's up?' sort of thing. So, if you have an inbox full of subject lines that read like this:

"Hey what's up?"
"Hi"
"Hey beautiful."
"Me, You, and Skittles..."
"How was your weekend?"

Blah, blah, blah, blah. Which one appears to be the shiny object out of the bunch? And, that's the whole point. You have to learn to be a shiny object. Honestly, you kind of have to project an image of being a performer. Not all girls will respond. Which, is fine, because the ones that don't respond to a guy that's pushing the envelope like that are the same girls that are probably pretty boring and are going their 463 point check list of attributes they need from a man. They get straight logical, insted of letting their emotions drive them.

Like I said, I'm no online Casanova. But, I will say that I bet I do a lot better out there than the average guy online...way better in fact. Quite frankly, I've run into a lot of girls that have openly admitted that I was either the only guy they meet in person online or was one of two or three. In fact, it's not uncommon for them to just shut down their profile shortly after meeting me. Not because I'm just that awesome as a person, although I am, but because I was one of only a very small minority of guys that were even worth talking with. A girl's mentality is simple: I've gotten hundreds of emails from all of these guys, only a small handful were worth the effort, of those only one or two rose to the top. Imagine how much value you have already by the time you get to the first meeting? You've litterally beat out hundreds and hundreds of guys. It's hard for them to NOT like you after all of that. Now, imagine how layering on some tight in real life game can just blow the girl away. Of course, the same dynamic can be created in real life. Being white and over 6ft will definitely get you there but you have to understand that the vast majority of the guys online are completely incompetent. They write their profiles as if it were a resume. That's where they go wrong. And, that's where I deviate from the crowd and that's why brings me more success than most guys.

As for doing too much work, I would bet that your friend spends way more time online sourcing women. I have three or four canned emails. I tailor them based on the girl's profile and then hit send. I might spend 30 minutes a day online, only during the week and only at the office. Most of that time is focused on replying to emails or making very small tweaks to my profile to keep it high on the search results page. Further, I would also suggest that the things I send do a much better job of filtering out women that I actually want to spend time with. That's part of online game too, to be efficient and not waste your time with someone boring and mindless just because they're hot. This doesn't even speak to the quality of the women you source...attractiveness, compatible personalities, etc. I've hesitated to bring up the quality argument because that's just a fluid concept/definition. What is quality to me may not be to someone else.

One of my favorite blogger's put it best: Tight online game can yield fruit, but I find it more personally fulfilling to just meet the girls I find attractive outside in the cool, crisp air. I totally agree. I just want to arm myself with as many weapons as possible. That's why I'm always advocating online game. It's just another way to meet people. Realistically, you only meet women that are worth dating once every month or so. And, very often, a lot slip through the cracks because you just don't have enough time for them in your life at that moment.

Morpheo's suggestion is compelling. And, like you, I would guess that you'd be met with a lot more success than you have to date.

I would like to address what you said about value. Making the gina tingle is part of a man's value proposition, I totally agree with that. Also, I completely agree that a woman will take a man that invests all his value in her (even if he has very little) over a man that invests very little value in her (even if he has a lot). This is especially true when they've gotten to that point in their life where they've decided to settle. And, quite frankly, that's one of the best services we can offer the world. Guys like us very often burn women out. After that, the smarter women learn to settle and learn to appreciate a more stable, safer man that is more heavily invested in her even if he's not nearly as exciting as she would prefer. Doesn't mean women will be miserable the rest of their lives with that guy, it just means that they learn to love him...women are adaptable in that regard, way more so than men.

[voyager]

I think that online gaming is in a lot of ways the inverse of regular pick-up. At the bars, people are coming in with (usually) no expectations; online, people are coming in with a set of (sometimes detailed) expectations.

People will go for what they think they want instead of what they really want. Gaming in person you have the advantage of showing them exactly why their pre-made list of 463 attributes they want to check off is completely irrelevant. Online, you don't exactly have that luxury. I would EXPECT people online would go for the traditional "value" proposition instead of how they really feel. The article you posted with respect to the speed dating shows just how arbitrary people's stated preferences are.

My $0.02 on the issue.


[Side note: after meeting the friend that Triumvirate and IsiMan are referring to, I did a 100% about-face in my opinion on this issue. So... there's that. If that dude is able to get one date a week, and some of the folks here are having trouble setting up dates - there is something seriously wrong with the world.]

[IsiMan84]

I understood all the tricks of the trade before trying the online dating thing. In fact after reading your post it looks like something I would have said to myself. I had the interesting subject line, funny profile description, you name it.

What's funny in all of this is that it would usually say we were a 93-97% match or somewhere in that ballpark. You can guess which one quality usually wasn't a match. And I knew they were reading the message because I could see who had viewed my profile. So they said "hmm that's an interesting subject line", read the message, clicked on my profile, and then quickly looked for the X to close the window. And in the event that didn't work, frantically closed the laptop or pulled the power cord out of the wall.

I wouldn't doubt my friend spends more time on there than you do, but the fact of the matter is that he's successful in any quantity. Whether he's sending one boring email and getting one date, or 300 boring emails and getting one date, he's still getting one date.

I'm not against using online game to supplement your real-life game, but only if it is efficient like you said. In my case, it would not be efficient to spend ~$30 a month to maybe get a couple girls to reply to me. That money could be spent on an extra couple nights out or a gym membership or something. Even if all I got was a meaningless makeout in the bar or a number from a chick on the treadmill, that's still better than sitting at my computer staring at an empty inbox.

But one thing I do know, if the success online is greater than in person you'll feel less motivated to go out because the work isn't worth the reward anymore. Then your skills get worse etc., which is what I believe has happened with our friend.

Anyways, when I get some free time I'll see about this experiment with the profile. I might even pull some of our friend's photos from Facebook and pretend to be him, but using my old messages from the last time I tried it as me.

[Bull Run]

But one thing I do know, if the success online is greater than in person you'll feel less motivated to go out because the work isn't worth the reward anymore. Then your skills get worse etc., which is what I believe has happened with our friend.

I can totally see that if you've never been a member of the community. I would argue that guys in the community will feel a better sense of abundance mentality if they're successful which aides in being a little less outcome dependent. Of course, if you're too successful, you may very well get to the point where you ask yourself, 'why bother going out at all?' So, yeah, I agree. All things in moderation right?

I have found though that online game has helped me the most with being on day2s. I was always pretty good at them anyways but now, I'm much, much better on them because I've had so many pulled directly from the net.

You do make an interesting point about the money. $30 a month is nothing in my budget so no big deal. Shit, most nights when I go out I spend way more than $30. But, if you're doing the online game thing correctly, all of those day2s do add up. I've always had a policy of being okay with buying a woman a drink on a day2, no food, just drinks. Still though, if the day2 goes well, which it almost always does, that turns into 3-4 drinks per person. Some girls offer to pay their share, most don't though...if they offer, I take their money no problem. If they don't, then I better get something or that's the last date. I've had friends that pushed the 'you pay your share' issue...I, personally, never had the desire to do that. I always just felt like a pussy...it's a limiting belief, but I'm fine with it. So, tight online game can be very, very expensive.

[IsiMan84]

I'm pretty much a miser when it comes to spending money at bars or on women, so $30 is like a monthly budget for me haha. If not spending enough money on them is the reason they end up not doing anything with me, I'm cool with it. At least it thins the herd somewhat. That being said, I've been on like three day 2's in life, so online game is probably a lose-lose for me.

[Tribulus1000]

Update on this - I talked to him and he said he was really busy and did not know about coming down.
I met Dave a long time ago, like 2006 when I went to Vegas. At the time, we were all doing Mystery Method stuff.
Then I kinda lost touch with him and talked to him about a year ago. He said he was doing well at Online Game.
Then later he told me he meets girls on facebook and sends emails to them to check out his site.

His site was called "DateDavid.com" or "DatingDavid.com" or something. He took it down later.
Basically he said he was going to marry his current girlfriend.

But he also had to take down his facebook because of too much drama.


Anyway, that's the gyst of what he did. He said it was like he would send out emails from his site's email delivery with amweber, and then his site had a sign up, like a form for dating him.
And girls could see pictures of him and it looked cool.

Since they were coming to him it changed the frame. And he would try to fit them into his schedule.

He used a dating site software program to do it on the cheap, and I forget the name. There are a few out there.

Anyway, that's the bulk of what he did. You guys can give it a try if you like.

-Trib

[ninjamatt]

Too the guy who said he was having a hard time online b/c he is black; I would say try to get a running buddy and get out in public more. Where I am at, I'm guessing 10 to 20 % of the white women like black men. I know of a handful of 10's strutting around with black men from time to time as well. Don't make race an excuse. I'm the hottest mother fucker in any club around here and I've had girls blow me out countless times in favor of a black man.Sometimes big fat ones.



Isn't Mystery method the guy who came up with the peacock theory? and wasn't the idea behind that so that girls would open him? I would have a hard time wondering what kind of pick up artist a guy is when he wants women to be the one approaching him first. Or, when he welcomes it. One thing I have always thought was hilarious is having an attractive lonely guy in a club tell me that the club sucks, but when that first chunky 6 opens him, he looks like he just won the fucking lottery. I've probably been clubbing about 500 to 600 times in the last 11 years. Only one time I've had a woman approach me who I would have actually opened first if given the chance but I never saw. If maybe 150 women in my life have opened me, thats the only one I would have bypassed a night at the club for, to go on a date with based on her looks. But since I didn't like her approaching me and it was a busy night, I blew her off.

I've had friends who've fucked those types. I've had friends and family who married those types. It always turns out bad. The ones who married, married down and have never been truly happy in the marriage b/c they see women all the time of much better quality they could have got had they been more patient instead of falling for something easy who is now bitching all the time, wears the pants in the household all the time, runs their lives, tells them what to do and when to do it, sucks up all their money, making them miserable while sitting around eatting hamburgers and getting fat. All b/c he was too scared to just go start some conversations and gave up.

I kind of see online gaming the same way. In my early 20's I used local yahoo chat rooms to meet pretty girls or ones I thought was pretty b/c I was timid , to get laid the first time. I tried Eharmony around 05 and within a week got matched with a 320 pound co-worker. It had me talking to one hot chick about 250 miles away. Eventually I got to where the thrill of the night game and even day game chase was too good. I could see exactly what I was talking to before I ever invested a second of my time. I got to a level I have a phone full of wings and bootie calls just by opening people at the club. For me, I don't like something that's too easy as to sit behind a computer and message a bunch of women that a bunch of other guys are messaging based on a few pictures. It's boring. I don't want my photos on a public dating website saying "look at me , I need an online date". The prototypical wife material, or bang material, or even wingwoman material for me is the 5'8, 120, DD tits, super tan, 10 face with no kids, around 25-30 who goes both ways. What are the chances I'm gonna get that or close online? zero from now to eternity. What are the chances I can club hop 4 or 5 spots on the weekends then take the dog to a couple popular parks and get it or close within a month? better than zero b/c I done it several times.

The girls I've gotten to know over the last few years from the clubs, don't do online dating. They also don't approach men in public. They act like players and they wanna see a lot of guys approach them. They have class. They are a challenge and they like to be challenged. They got a lot of pretty boys chasing them. And when I win, it's a huge sense of accomplishment. when you've finally met this chick you been talking to a few weeks on match.com and it takes a few minutes to convince yourself she might be good enough to do whatever with, b/c you might as well, b/c you are both there now, what have you really done?

[IsiMan84]

Too the guy who said he was having a hard time online b/c he is black; I would say try to get a running buddy and get out in public more.

I think you missed the other 90% of my post where I said I had more value and a much easier time than him in real life. Also said I go out about 3 times a week.

Where I am at, I'm guessing 10 to 20 % of the white women like black men.

Since your 'guess' is specific to where you are, I'll leave that alone. But in reality it's much, much lower. As far as who white women have gotten married to, black men make up 0.5%. Since the majority of women using online dating sites are looking for LTR's or marriage, that is a relevant statistic. As opposed to "liking" or "being seen with" which is nothing more than a casual observation.

I know of a handful of 10's strutting around with black men from time to time as well.

And I've seen a handful of piano-playing cats on YouTube. It's not a normality, which lends to my above statistic. For every "10" you see 'strutting around' with black guys, there's 199 somewhere that aren't. That's even a generous stat for Uptown.

Don't make race an excuse. I'm the hottest mother fucker in any club around here and I've had girls blow me out countless times in favor of a black man.Sometimes big fat ones.

If you actually read and understood the purpose of my post, it was that I kill it compared to him in real life, but he kills it online. All of your comments have been about in-person and not online, so what point were you making exactly?