[QUOTE=traxxus;38230]I think the second shill didn't work as well because the profile and pictures are in-congruent. Guys have a bullshit detector too, and I think that it may have gotten triggered. I'm not saying they thought she was a fake, but maybe that she was fucking crazy.
The profile to me reads like "The girl next door" and the sexual stereotype of the pics reads as indy/alternative rocker. This is what struck me about the profile vs the pics.[/QUOTE]
I thought the same thing. She seemed to be a walking contradiction. But, I could also see this being the same girl. Just because a girl has funky hair and piercings doesn't mean she's not going to cry while she watches The Notebook (I know this from experience).
Regardless, I think this was a strong profile. Intimidating pics and intimidating profile, ableit in a different way.
Is it possible that the much lower contact ratio, almost 40% lower than the first shill, but with traffic comparable to the first shill (you could argue that the traffic was even worse since Houston is bigger than Dallas, which is where the first shill was based) indicates that these guys actually DO read the profile? But still will not approach a girl that they find intimidating, even if it is via a medium where rejection is aynonymous.
It has become clear, to me, that we will not be finding much inspiration for openers, emails, and profiles from these guys. But we will gain a much better understanding of the way the average guys thinks and how he behaves towards different types of women. In other words, we're not going to find much behavior to mimic BUT we will uncover behavior to eradicate from our online Game.
With the next shill, I'm going to take things a bit further. I'm going to wink to at least 5 guys a day. I'm going to respond to every email that I receive. Good or bad. Alpha or beta. I want to better understand how these guys interact, what they do, what they say, and their behaviors while conversing with the shill.
What this study is really telling me is that we're light years ahead of the average online dater. I suspected this to be the case already.
Dallas PUA
The Pickup Artist Playground
The Bull's Online Study
by Guest » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:30 pm
[QUOTE=Bull Run;38231]It has become clear, to me, that we will not be finding much inspiration for openers, emails, and profiles from these guys. But we will gain a much better understanding of the way the average guys thinks and how he behaves towards different types of women. In other words, we're not going to find much behavior to mimic BUT we will uncover behavior to eradicate from our online Game.[/QUOTE]
The problem is that we may be looking for behavior to mimic that actually mimics us, and we may be looking to eradicate behavior from our online game that we don't do in the first place. What we might miss is the behavior that doesn't look like it would work but is effective. For example, maybe women respond when a guy gives his phone number on the first email. After all, they like when a guy shows confidence. Maybe women respond when a guy compliments them on something obvious. That's why they put it in their profile in the first place. We won't ever know because we can't see the real life reactions of the nonexistent girl.
The problem is that we may be looking for behavior to mimic that actually mimics us, and we may be looking to eradicate behavior from our online game that we don't do in the first place. What we might miss is the behavior that doesn't look like it would work but is effective. For example, maybe women respond when a guy gives his phone number on the first email. After all, they like when a guy shows confidence. Maybe women respond when a guy compliments them on something obvious. That's why they put it in their profile in the first place. We won't ever know because we can't see the real life reactions of the nonexistent girl.
- Guest
by Guest » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:50 pm
[QUOTE=Rhody;38233]The problem is that we may be looking for behavior to mimic that actually mimics us, and we may be looking to eradicate behavior from our online game that we don't do in the first place. What we might miss is the behavior that doesn't look like it would work but is effective. For example, maybe women respond when a guy gives his phone number on the first email. After all, they like when a guy shows confidence. Maybe women respond when a guy compliments them on something obvious. That's why they put it in their profile in the first place. We won't ever know because we can't see the real life reactions of the nonexistent girl.[/QUOTE]
True. And, there lies the problem. Obviously, this study is one way and will be heavily influenced by our perceptions.
However, we're starting to see some universal truths popping their head up. Statistics show that men usually drop online dating within the first 90 days because they don't meet someone. Why? Well, we're seeing how the vast majority of men approach these women. And, if the vast majority drop online dating so soon because they don't meet anyone, then what does that say about the approach that they're likely using?
That's the goal of this first stage of the study: to understand what most men do and since most men are unsuccessful to eradicate that behavior from my profile and behavior.
This is a study that seeks to answer why they fail not how do they succeed. Maybe success is simply not failing? Don't know.
The next stage is going to have to be more time consuming and tedious. Basically, creating male shills and pursuing women using various methods and tactics that we think will work and seeing what does and doesn't work. That's the stage of creating success.
Like a said, this stage is failure avoidance.
Finally, I think in the end, we're going to find that there are just some structural issues that make success harder to come by simply because of the fickle nature of women. They have a profile in front of them of a guy. 99% of it could be awesome, but he said he smokes occassionally...that 1% could kill him because it's so easy for her to walk away AND you haven't connected to her on an emotional level like you would IRL.
True. And, there lies the problem. Obviously, this study is one way and will be heavily influenced by our perceptions.
However, we're starting to see some universal truths popping their head up. Statistics show that men usually drop online dating within the first 90 days because they don't meet someone. Why? Well, we're seeing how the vast majority of men approach these women. And, if the vast majority drop online dating so soon because they don't meet anyone, then what does that say about the approach that they're likely using?
That's the goal of this first stage of the study: to understand what most men do and since most men are unsuccessful to eradicate that behavior from my profile and behavior.
This is a study that seeks to answer why they fail not how do they succeed. Maybe success is simply not failing? Don't know.
The next stage is going to have to be more time consuming and tedious. Basically, creating male shills and pursuing women using various methods and tactics that we think will work and seeing what does and doesn't work. That's the stage of creating success.
Like a said, this stage is failure avoidance.
Finally, I think in the end, we're going to find that there are just some structural issues that make success harder to come by simply because of the fickle nature of women. They have a profile in front of them of a guy. 99% of it could be awesome, but he said he smokes occassionally...that 1% could kill him because it's so easy for her to walk away AND you haven't connected to her on an emotional level like you would IRL.
- Guest
by Guest » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:48 pm
BR, here is a good opener you could try. I have used it with much success on PoF.
So, obviously you passed the aesthetics test or I would never have contacted you, but a buddy of mine was looking over my shoulder and claimed that – without a doubt – your profile looked to have been written by a guy; it’s just too perfect. I came to your defense, of course, but now we’ve got a $20 bet going as to whether or not you’re real. So I wondered, just between us, am I about to lose $20?
I can not take credit for this, I ripped it of the stylelife forums, but I see and understand the basic architecture of the message better than I did before. The problem I am having with it is bringing the communication past their initial response of "HAHA your friend owes you $20"
So, obviously you passed the aesthetics test or I would never have contacted you, but a buddy of mine was looking over my shoulder and claimed that – without a doubt – your profile looked to have been written by a guy; it’s just too perfect. I came to your defense, of course, but now we’ve got a $20 bet going as to whether or not you’re real. So I wondered, just between us, am I about to lose $20?
I can not take credit for this, I ripped it of the stylelife forums, but I see and understand the basic architecture of the message better than I did before. The problem I am having with it is bringing the communication past their initial response of "HAHA your friend owes you $20"
- Guest
by Guest » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:05 pm
[QUOTE=traxxus;38235]The problem I am having with it is bringing the communication past their initial response of "HAHA your friend owes you $20"[/QUOTE]
"That's exactly what my friend said you would say. Maybe one day we'll figure out a way to resolve this, but in the meantime, I'll go on the assumption that you're a cute woman with a spunky personality (don't let me down). So this may seem like a silly question, but in the interest of having fun getting to know each other, when you were a little girl, what was the best birthday present you ever received?"
"That's exactly what my friend said you would say. Maybe one day we'll figure out a way to resolve this, but in the meantime, I'll go on the assumption that you're a cute woman with a spunky personality (don't let me down). So this may seem like a silly question, but in the interest of having fun getting to know each other, when you were a little girl, what was the best birthday present you ever received?"
- Guest
by Guest » Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:23 am
Instead of posting up fake profiles and getting the same responses over and over again, I have taken a different tact.
Over the weekend, I discovered that one of my co-workers is on Match. She and I are pretty tight (actually talked about dating but we're not thrilled about the whole dating co-workers thing). Anyway, she's already got an account, but her friend has been thinking about signing up. Her friend is super cute too.
So, I convinced her and her friend to use the account I have set up for the shill. She gets a free account for a period of time and I get complete access to her emails, her responses, and what she's doing.
In addition, I get a ton of information from my co-worker regarding what works and what does not. So, now we have the inside track on two attractive, young women and how they act on Match.
I'm going to continue to monitor the account and gather intel from my co-worker and her friend and will post up information that I uncover as it is uncovered.
I'll be posting up DO's and DON'Ts of online dating based on these two girls very soon...
Over the weekend, I discovered that one of my co-workers is on Match. She and I are pretty tight (actually talked about dating but we're not thrilled about the whole dating co-workers thing). Anyway, she's already got an account, but her friend has been thinking about signing up. Her friend is super cute too.
So, I convinced her and her friend to use the account I have set up for the shill. She gets a free account for a period of time and I get complete access to her emails, her responses, and what she's doing.
In addition, I get a ton of information from my co-worker regarding what works and what does not. So, now we have the inside track on two attractive, young women and how they act on Match.
I'm going to continue to monitor the account and gather intel from my co-worker and her friend and will post up information that I uncover as it is uncovered.
I'll be posting up DO's and DON'Ts of online dating based on these two girls very soon...
- Guest
by Guest » Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:05 pm
If I was gonna do online dating I would make a fake profile of myself in a different city.
I would then go balls out with that profile trying crazy shit with the girls in that city.
As an example. I like girls who are rather young...22-24ish or so. However if you notice most of these girls will only date guys up to 25-28 or whatever. So I would like to try an experiment where I still message these girls and try to throw it off that they are too young for me. See if I could come up with a game plan of what works best to still snag the younguns.
I would do this with all the different subsets of the online world in different cities to see if I could figure it out. Then I would bring my online game to the Dallas and see if it worked.
I would then go balls out with that profile trying crazy shit with the girls in that city.
As an example. I like girls who are rather young...22-24ish or so. However if you notice most of these girls will only date guys up to 25-28 or whatever. So I would like to try an experiment where I still message these girls and try to throw it off that they are too young for me. See if I could come up with a game plan of what works best to still snag the younguns.
I would do this with all the different subsets of the online world in different cities to see if I could figure it out. Then I would bring my online game to the Dallas and see if it worked.
- Guest
by Guest » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:24 pm
[QUOTE=playercool;38304]If I was gonna do online dating I would make a fake profile of myself in a different city.
I would then go balls out with that profile trying crazy shit with the girls in that city.
As an example. I like girls who are rather young...22-24ish or so. However if you notice most of these girls will only date guys up to 25-28 or whatever. So I would like to try an experiment where I still message these girls and try to throw it off that they are too young for me. See if I could come up with a game plan of what works best to still snag the younguns.
I would do this with all the different subsets of the online world in different cities to see if I could figure it out. Then I would bring my online game to the Dallas and see if it worked.[/QUOTE]
Yep, that's the last phase. Take what I've learned so far and what I'll learn from these girls then start hitting up other cities.
I would then go balls out with that profile trying crazy shit with the girls in that city.
As an example. I like girls who are rather young...22-24ish or so. However if you notice most of these girls will only date guys up to 25-28 or whatever. So I would like to try an experiment where I still message these girls and try to throw it off that they are too young for me. See if I could come up with a game plan of what works best to still snag the younguns.
I would do this with all the different subsets of the online world in different cities to see if I could figure it out. Then I would bring my online game to the Dallas and see if it worked.[/QUOTE]
Yep, that's the last phase. Take what I've learned so far and what I'll learn from these girls then start hitting up other cities.
- Guest
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